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Franchise Tags- Offensive Line

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by borg, Dec 29, 2010.

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  1. borg

    borg Rookie

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    Below, you will find all franchise tags for 2010... for the OFFENSIVE LINE: $10.731m (franchise), $9.142m (transition). Both numbers are huge... Centers and guards are very lucky to be lumped in with left tackles.

    Light and Mankins are both free agents after the playoffs, and both Koppen and Neal have 1 year left (Neal could retire)

    This should get very tricky for BB and the Patriots. Assuming no deal (won't franchise in '11)was made between Mankins and the Patriots to get him back on the field, the Pats could tag Mankins to the tune of $10+ mill and either he plays or gets traded for considerable value. The problem is Light and his value as a left tackle. Light will be coming off a 6 year $27 mill contract, not huge money by today's standards. The market for LTs of his caliber is more than double his current check. I do expect him to remain a Patriot, but not for an extreme home town discount. This will be his last big pay opportunity.

    So who to franchise, who to lock up? Will BB risk franchising Mankins and be on the hook for $10+ mill for a guard? Looking at the '11 draft, it is my understanding that O line as a group is weak. Can anyone see BB spending about $16-18 mill/year on the left side of the line? Finally, are the tag values of O linemen a CBA issue? I can't imagine management likes lumping C/Gs with Ts.

    CORNERBACK: $9.566 million (franchise), $8.056 million (transition)

    DEFENSIVE END: $12.398m, $10.193m

    DEFENSIVE TACKLE: $7.003m, $6.353m

    LINEBACKER: $9.680m, $8.373m

    OFFENSIVE LINE: $10.731m, $9.142m

    PUNTER/KICKER: $2.814m, $2.629m

    QUARTERBACK: $16.405m, $14.546m

    RUNNING BACK: $8.156m, $7.151m

    SAFETY: $6.455m, $6.011m

    TIGHT END: $5.908m, $5.248m

    WIDE RECEIVER: $9.521m, $8.651m
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2010
  2. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The thing to remember is nobody is going anywhere until or unless there is a new CBA or the union decertifies. If there is a new CBA it will feature a return to the cap that may bode ill for many teams who took advantage of the uncapped season to make their push by signing whomever they thought it would take to whatever deals they had to in order to be contenders in 2010. In other words, look for lots of teams to be cap strapped. If the union decertifies the defacto CBA will be whatever owners want it to be, and that could well include retaining some of the expiring CBA features like a franchise AND transition tag (with the poison pill loopholes closed or even some compensation). They might even include multiple tags and expand the breakdown for linemen to reflect reality. There will also be a period between the Superbowl and the CBA clock striking midnight when teams will remain at an advantage in being able to negotiate with and sign their players under contract to extensions that may look like a better deal than rolling the dice that the whole thing gets settled without interruption or changes that could limit value in FA...

    I would think that Light is emanently extendable for a couple of seasons and because of his age and situation. He's smart enough to know it's more likely he sees the meat of any extension here than he would going to some new system and scheme and QB...where he could be one and done scapegoated.

    They will tag Mankins if they have to, either to buy time or if he remains dug in to effect a tag and trade. I just don't think they will extend themselves beyond a certain point that to them constitutes overpaying for the position regardless because that's not what the system dictates and the system works.
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2010
  3. aabtec

    aabtec Rookie

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    I hate to say it but I think that Mankins is gone. I like the guy and think he should get paid but for a Guard the $$$$'s seems a litle whacked. I could see the Pats using the 1st pick in the 2nd rd on a Guard named Hudson. Florida I think. He seems to be getting very good reviews. A cheaper version of Mankins.

    I would love to see the Pats keep Light and draft Scolder the LT. Light could help the kid along and then move to RG.

    I really hope that we use all 6 draft picks this year. We could firm up both sides of the lines..
  4. stinkypete

    stinkypete Rookie

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    I don't see Light getting too unmanageable a contract. He's a 10 year vet with a reputation for getting beat by more athletic pass rushers. His play, too, has clearly declined in the past couple of years.

    I'd love to see Light return for a few more years, but he's worth far below market for an elite OL.

    Mankins, on the other hand, has proven himself the anchor of this line. I hope the front office negotiates aggressively and gets him signed by the start of free agency. I questioned his value when he was holding out, but he's clearly proven his worth.
  5. alamo

    alamo praedica numerum! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Mankins came back 2 or 3 games earlier than he "had to" to get credit for the year. So though noone has reported it, it would not shock me to eventually find out in exchange the Patriots agreed not to franchise him.
  6. borg

    borg Rookie

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    I fear you are correct
  7. BelizePats

    BelizePats Rookie

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    This is a tough one. Light has been playing on a contract that has been well below the market value the last few years without a peep about it. I can see a 2 year extension for 5-6 per. He is on the downside but still very serviceable. Doing a 2 year extension also buys us time to find and or develop our LT of the future. As to Mankins, there is no question that he makes everyone else on the line better. I hate that he held out but lord have mercy he has played brilliantly since he came back and the results on offense are clear. Brady has all kinds of time to throw and the run blocking is better than its been since 2004.
    $10 million franchise tag for 1 year? Yikes! 7-7.5 per over the next 5 years is reasonable.
    But, we have Brady for 4 more years and as he ages, its even more important to keep him upright and off the ground. Mankins does exactly that! I'd go as high as 8 per for him, which is something I was not willing to do at the beginning of the year when he was holding out in camp.

    Give Light a 2 year extension for 5-6 per
    Offer Mankins 5 years at 8 per and see where it goes from there.
  8. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    Then no football would be played until a CBA is negotiated. Otherwise the owners could declare the end of free agency entirely. Once the union decertifies, the teams are in a state of illegal collusion. No football until a new CBA is signed.
  9. satz

    satz Rookie

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    Is it your thoughts or a fact. I want to see this elite OT who shutdown all elite pass rushers every down. I not seen light had his lunch money stolen ever. If you play 65 snaps he will get beat once or twice cannot remember the last time he decline and let up many sacks ,hits and knockdowns.IN contrast to what you claimed peppers ,wake and elite pass rushers ususally move over to Vollmer side as they where shut down by Light. It might look vollmer is doing a good job with some help but the issue is vollmer is giving better match up.LT are so hard to find even in the top 5 now.
    The LG lines up against the 3-4 RDE the bigger / faster of the 3-4 ends . Dan can be a great a RG but not a LG.So i will sign mankins and keep the line.

    eithery case Fist pick in 2011 will be a OL if one fell.
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2010
  10. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Not true. The whole reason for the union to take that tack is so that a lockout is averted and players continue to play. They just do so in the process of filing law suits to challenge the terms of their employment in the absense of a collectively bargained agreement and possibly threaten the exemptions to anti trust under which the league like all leagues operate.


    There are rules in effect that stipulate league operations and play can go on once the union decertifies under the terms of the last best offer management had on the table. That would be (essentially) the expiring CBA plus/minus whatever proposed changes to it management had been willing to offer. Decertification is the antidote to a lockout. It poses problems long term for both sides (court involvement in the process that can help or harm either side depending on their ultimate goals) and short term for players (because they are bound by employment terms that some may find unpalatable), but life (and paychecks) goes on.
  11. Pujo

    Pujo Rookie

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    I'm not sure where you're getting that decertification would avoid a lockout. Decert is the union's bargaining chip, a lockout is the owners' (since the owners get their TV revenue whether or not a season happens). I don't see a reason why the league couldn't operate in the interim without a CBA, but I think decert is only aimed at one thing, filing an antitrust lawsuit. Otherwise they could play without a CBA but with the union remaining a union. There would be no incentive to decertify.
  12. SanAngeloState

    SanAngeloState Banned

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    still baffled as to how mankins, a guard, thought 8M per year or whatever was "insulting". What drugs is he on?

    I think they can draft a couple guards in the draft, one from baylor is his size and is supposedly a great LT (like mankins was in college) and perfect for guard...steve schilling of michigan in the 3rd or 4th.

    I don't see them offering him huge money or franchising him at 10M.
  13. RayClay

    RayClay On the Roster

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    Draft some linemen and sign Vollmer when the time comes. I see no other real problems.

    Matt Light is paid at the level of LT he is IMO. He's not going to get better and shouldn't stand in Vollmers way.

    Sign Mankins if they think he's worth it, or use Connolly and Wendell until the draft picks/acquisitions get acclimated. Teams start seasons in a lot worse shape.
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2010
  14. satz

    satz Rookie

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    Can you explain this please. This year Light has had a good year and he is solid enough that every team is moving its best rusher over Vollmer so i am confused.We line up crumpler on his side for help.
  15. ahmed

    ahmed Rookie

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    A lot of kool-aid in this thread:rolleyes:
  16. SONS_OF_BELICHICK

    SONS_OF_BELICHICK Rookie

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    Dante has always done a great job with whoever BB throws in his stable..... Look at the backups and how they perform. Neal is going to retire. Depending on the CBA, I could see them signing Mankins....but I can also see them trading him too (to Dallas for a #1 :) ). In the end ....BB will put together a strong line to protect Tom.....
  17. plk

    plk Rookie

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    I am still baffled how anyone can think that they know what Mankins was offered. There were "reports," but even those reports never included the details of the contract, and with NFL contracts, everything is in the details. In particular, we do not know when the alleged contract was supposed to start, this year or next year. That is a really big detail.

    I apologize for quoting Ron Borges, but on Sports Tonight he said that the Patriots were extremely vague about the details of the contract offer to Mankins.

    I do not remember Mankins ever saying that the offer was insulting. Can you provide a reference?
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2010
  18. NewFeep

    NewFeep Rookie

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    The Oakland pick is perfect for a tackle. #12 to #18 Sea-bass and this pick will be bookends for years. This is the most plausible scenario going forward. I would love to see Neal back for one more season but the general consensus of most posters here is he will most likely retire. That's a pity but I basically agree it is likely. He's been a great guard. Mankins is a man-beast and I would love to see figuring out how to keep him here. Again, doesn't seem the most likely scenario. Maybe BB finds a decent guard at #33 or #64? I really have my heart set on defense for thee draft but a good O-line wins games and SB's!

    I'm sure BB knows what he is doing though...... In BB I trust!
  19. unoriginal

    unoriginal Rookie

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    Mankins just got voted to the Pro Bowl despite playing half the season. Obviously he has exceptional standing in this league so somebody is likely to throw the money he wants at him. If the Pats tag him it'll probably be because they think they can get a high 3rd/2nd round pick out of somebody in a trade.

    Light I see back, unlike Mankins his contract negotiations have never been difficult, primarily because he has taken below market rate to stay on this team.

    I would expect our late first/Carolina pick to be spent on an offensive guard like Mankins, and/or for the Kaczur/Ojinnaka experiment to resume/continue next year. Obviously Wendell will be in the mix as well.
  20. Brady-To-Branch

    Brady-To-Branch Rookie

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    I think Light would be easier to sign and I would like to see him back.

    Despite my anger during Mankins holdout, his play this season has won me over. I say PAY THE MAN!!!
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