Franchise tag now in effect for 2011; will Pats tag Mankins?

[Triumph]

NFL confirms teams can begin using Tags on February 10th


Feb22/2/2011 7:57:24 PM http://www.addthis.com/bookmark.php...C&pre=http://theredzone.org/Default.aspx&tt=0http://www.addthis.com/bookmark.php...C&pre=http://theredzone.org/Default.aspx&tt=0http://www.addthis.com/bookmark.php...C&pre=http://theredzone.org/Default.aspx&tt=0http://www.addthis.com/bookmark.php...C&pre=http://theredzone.org/Default.aspx&tt=0| More
Barring some sort of court challenge by the players’ union, NFL teams will be able to use the franchise and/or transition tags in eight days according to Greg Bedard of the Boston Globe.
There has been some discrepancy on whether the tags could be used this year and applied to the 2011 season, mostly from the union side.
But NFL senior vice president and general counsel Peter Rucco, said today that the league has told teams they can apply the tags in a 14-day window beginning Feb. 10.
“The CBA hasn’t expired and the CBA has the right to franchise players so we are telling clubs that you have the right to franchise players and then depending on what the new agreement says, that will take into account,” Rucco said. “Neither party is proposing to get rid of the franchise tag. But as far as we’re concerned, clubs have the right to tag players, the agreement continues with the same terms and conditions that it has been; it isn’t expiring until March 4 and the window to franchise players is 14 days. From our standpoint, you have every right to franchise players.”

 

[Patriot Missile]

Re: Pats Will "Likely" Slap Franchise Tag On Mankins

The Patriots are not going to pay Mankins $10.5 mil next year. They're either going to let him walk, agree to a long term contract, or tag and trade him.

What they "accomplished" is saving money in 2010. No more, no less.

They may not have a choice but to pay him. 2 first round picks is a hefty price for a guard, no matter how good he is. There may not be any takers unless the Pats are willing to lessen their demands.

Personaly I think he stays.

 

[Triumph]

Its doubtful the Pats will sign Mankins to a new contract without a CBA.

They have to Franchise and Mankins already said he wont be a happy camper if the Pats go there.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Pats Will "Likely" Slap Franchise Tag On Mankins

The Patriots are not going to pay Mankins $10.5 mil next year. They're either going to let him walk, agree to a long term contract, or tag and trade him.

What they "accomplished" is saving money in 2010. No more, no less.

So, they "accomplished" giving more ammunition to those who question their willingness to pay appropriate salaries to players and label them cheap?


Hell of an accomplishment.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Its doubtful the Pats will sign Mankins to a new contract without a CBA.

They have to Franchise and Mankins already said he wont be a happy camper if the Pats go there.

I'd be less happy if I decided not to play and left 10 million dollars on the table. Atleast he showed he can sit out all of training camp and a good portion of the season and still play some fine football.

Makes me feel so much better about this {hopefull} upcoming season, knowing we have a guy that doesn't have to participate and won't miss a beat.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Re: Pats Will "Likely" Slap Franchise Tag On Mankins

His RFA tag was initially only about 3.16. He lost about half of that in the reduction to 1.54. Even subtracting the amount you're talking about, and giving him only 720k, you're looking at 3.16 - .720, which is 2.44M. If that franchise projection of 10.576 is correct, that number is higher than 8M + 2.44 M, meaning that the money "lost" to Mankins last year will have been made up with just one season of the franchise tag, which is what I pointed out. Furthermore, since Mankins is being tagged under the rules of the current CBA, there's not going to be any "adjustment" to that number without a court fight, and Mankins would likely win that battle.

The Patriots screwed up, and needlessly pissed off an excellent player and locker room presence (reportedly), and all the shills (paid or unpaid) aren't going to be able to spin that. They could have had a happy camper for about an extra $3.5 million dollars over the life of a long-term contract. Instead they've got a pissed off free agent left guard and a team that's got offensive line issues moving forward.

As I said, I'm not sure what the Patriots think they accomplished here.

There won't be any court battle if a new CBA alters the tag. That's the thing about collectively bargained rules... The union doesn't give a crap about Mankins situation, any more than they did last year when a couple of hundred guys lost out on FA altogether in favor of an uncapped season...or any more than they ever did when guys who helped build this league were living under bridges.

And what most of us contended where losses are concerned is that he lost money he will never regain in not signing the deal he was offered last season because of scenarios just like those that can unfold going forward. Had he signed that he'd have upwards of $20M in his bank account today like Wilfolk does instead of $720K...because just like Brady and Wilfork whose deals were treated like extensions to their present circumstance, he'd have gotten a fat signing bonus on top of a $3.16M salary. We won't know whether he ever even breaks even going forward until he's done playing because lots of times as players age or change situations, big sounding deals don't pay out...

The union is on a losing streak this week. They lost their challenge to the TV deals yesterday and today lost on an arbitrators ruling that the league isn't obliged to maintain health insurance during a work stoppage...

 

[part-timer]

Mankins will be franchised and will play for at least one more year. The Pats are not in possition to allow him to walk away even if they get Franchise Tag compensation. The Pats MUST move on the rebuilding phase of the OL NOW. Niel and Koppen need to be replaced now, Light may be let go if he can't be signed affordably,and we may be on our last year with Mankins. If Light can be resigned for 2 more years it will help the transition but if not Mankins will be nessisary to transition in 2 to 3 new OL players. This means that if the pats can't resign Mankins, and he starts a hold out in camp they may have to promise to not franchise him again to get him to show up. This mean he walks free in 2012. For this to work Vollmer moves to LT,Mankins stay at least 1 more year, and we must draft and install a new C, RG, RT, with the help of back ups Connoly, Kaczur, and Wendel. We have ignored the OL in our rebuilding of the defence and right now Mankins holds all the cards. It would be nice to sign him longterm, but the first step is the Franchise tag, where we go from there questionable. One thing you can count on is Mankins will be a Pat for at least one more year. I suggest drafting OT(Castonzo or Carimi), C/OG (Pouncey or Wisniewski), and OG (Ijalana) to increase the success rate of the one year transition.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Re: Pats Will "Likely" Slap Franchise Tag On Mankins

The union is on a losing streak this week. They lost their challenge to the TV deals yesterday and today lost on an arbitrators ruling that the league isn't obliged to maintain health insurance during a work stoppage...

Yep. It's starting to happen. The NFL WILL wear down the union. It happened in 1982 and in 1987. It's a matter of time.

 

[SanAngeloState]

Mankins will be tagged and traded or just outright not signed. No way the pats break the bank for such a mediocre playoff player who is so easy to replace.

 

[bucky]

Re: Pats Will "Likely" Slap Franchise Tag On Mankins

So, they "accomplished" giving more ammunition to those who question their willingness to pay appropriate salaries to players and label them cheap?
Hell of an accomplishment.

They don't believe in giving out contracts that put a player in the top 2 or 3 highest paid in that position. I think they've been pretty constant with that with the exception of Brady, who is in a different category. Whether or not that makes them "cheap" is debatable. I don't think they care much about what labels are put on them by the fans or media.

 

[bucky]

Re: Pats Will "Likely" Slap Franchise Tag On Mankins

They may not have a choice but to pay him. 2 first round picks is a hefty price for a guard, no matter how good he is. There may not be any takers unless the Pats are willing to lessen their demands.

Personaly I think he stays.

I think they'd settle for similar compensation as what they got for Cassell.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Re: Pats Will "Likely" Slap Franchise Tag On Mankins

I think they'd settle for similar compensation as what they got for Cassell.

God...I hope not.

 

[KoolAid]

Union disputes league claim that franchise tags are available | ProFootballTalk

Sorry if this is already posted:

Union disputes league claim that franchise tags are available

“The current CBA provides that ‘each club shall be permitted to designate one of its players who would otherwise be an Unrestricted Free Agent [or Restricted Free Agent] as a Franchise Player each season during the term of this Agreement.’ The 2011 season is not a ‘season during the term of this Agreement’ so the NFL has no valid basis for claiming the right to franchise players in 2011."

 

[bucky]

Re: Pats Will "Likely" Slap Franchise Tag On Mankins

God...I hope not.

He's a Guard. Even the best Guard prospects rarely get drafted in the 1st round. You're expecting someone to give up a 1st and pay him as one of the 2 top guards in the NFL?

 

[Shelterdog]

Re: Pats Will "Likely" Slap Franchise Tag On Mankins

He's a Guard. Even the best Guard prospects rarely get drafted in the 1st round. You're expecting someone to give up a 1st and pay him as one of the 2 top guards in the NFL?

Seriously.

Watching people talk about NFL players on their team is the greatest example I can think of of the "endowment effect" (i.e. people's irrational love of objects they already own). Would we be happy if the Pats traded more than a high second for the right to pay Nicks 6 years/$55 million?

 

[Triumph]

Union disputes league claim that franchise tags are available | ProFootballTalk

Sorry if this is already posted:

Union disputes league claim that franchise tags are available

“The current CBA provides that ‘each club shall be permitted to designate one of its players who would otherwise be an Unrestricted Free Agent [or Restricted Free Agent] as a Franchise Player each season during the term of this Agreement.’ The 2011 season is not a ‘season during the term of this Agreement’ so the NFL has no valid basis for claiming the right to franchise players in 2011."

The Tags are available till the end of the 2010 season and then everyone is locked out at the stroke of midnight. Who do they think the UFAs will be talking with when the 32 owners close the doors and stop answering phones?

I guess the CFL needs players.

 

[Patriot Missile]

Re: Pats Will "Likely" Slap Franchise Tag On Mankins

He's a Guard. Even the best Guard prospects rarely get drafted in the 1st round. You're expecting someone to give up a 1st and pay him as one of the 2 top guards in the NFL?

First. This isn't some homer type thing. If you are looking for one of the premier guards in the league you aren't going to find one in the draft that early. Are you trying to imply that because Mankins is only a Guard, that he is only worth no more than the 33rd pick? Which would be 2nd round pick 1. Are you tell me with no doubt that if your offensive line was in shambles and you needed to make a homerun pick to start building your offensive line around, that you would choose Wisniewksi,Pouncey,Costanza or Solder over a Probowl Left Guard? One that can run block,pass block in multiple blocking schemes. Already has nfl technique and literature down pat. Good luck with one of those precious draft picks panning out for ya. Great Guards don't just grow on trees.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Pats Will "Likely" Slap Franchise Tag On Mankins

There won't be any court battle if a new CBA alters the tag. That's the thing about collectively bargained rules... The union doesn't give a crap about Mankins situation, any more than they did last year when a couple of hundred guys lost out on FA altogether in favor of an uncapped season...or any more than they ever did when guys who helped build this league were living under bridges.

I don't know how to make this clearer.... Assuming the NFL is allowed to use the tags with the CURRENT state of the CURRENT CBA, Mankins will be franchised under the CURRENT CBA, meaning he'll be receiving the average of the top 5 O-linemen from the 2010 season. The rules for applying the franchise tag mean that the Patriots either have to agree to those terms or to let Mankins go, because the final day to apply the tag will be before the expiration of the current CBA.

And what most of us contended where losses are concerned is that he lost money he will never regain in not signing the deal he was offered last season because of scenarios just like those that can unfold going forward. Had he signed that he'd have upwards of $20M in his bank account today like Wilfolk does instead of $720K...because just like Brady and Wilfork whose deals were treated like extensions to their present circumstance, he'd have gotten a fat signing bonus on top of a $3.16M salary. We won't know whether he ever even breaks even going forward until he's done playing because lots of times as players age or change situations, big sounding deals don't pay out...

People like yourself contended that he'd be losing money by not signing, and also losing money by sitting out while the Patriots reduced the tender. Assuming he is franchised, he'll have made up the "lost" money regarding the tender, plus a bit more, and he'll have saved about half a season of wear-and-tear on his body in the process. He'll also have himself in position to go into free agency coming off of that franchise tag, at just 29 years old. He's lost nothing, and improved his standing with an All-Pro nod.

 

[part-timer]

Union disputes league claim that franchise tags are available | ProFootballTalk

Sorry if this is already posted:

Union disputes league claim that franchise tags are available

“The current CBA provides that ‘each club shall be permitted to designate one of its players who would otherwise be an Unrestricted Free Agent [or Restricted Free Agent] as a Franchise Player each season during the term of this Agreement.’ The 2011 season is not a ‘season during the term of this Agreement’ so the NFL has no valid basis for claiming the right to franchise players in 2011."

Its funny how illogical the NFLPA is getting to stall things in court. Each and every year of the CBA agreement guarentees the right to a franchise tag which is enforced on the following season. So the franchise tag which was placed on a played at the end of the 07 season is inforced on the 08 season,08 on 09, 09 on 10, and the tag signed to in the old CBA for 10 likewise will be enforced in 11. The only possible reason to avoid this is if language was put in to deal with this spacific situation. The league year ends at March 4, The Franchise tag is placed between Feb. 10 and Feb. 24 well before the end of the agreed upon contract, and the tag guarentees the Team control of the player during the following season. In order to complete the action guarenteed in the old CBA the control provided with the placement of the franchise tag must be completed. The only way out would be to have a clause that in the event of a cancelation of the CBA or its expireing the franchise tag would not be available in the last year of the CBA. Absent this or like language they are only wasting time and proveing the NFL's case of not barganing in good faith.

 

[BPF]

Re: Pats Will "Likely" Slap Franchise Tag On Mankins

I don't know how to make this clearer.... Assuming the NFL is allowed to use the tags with the CURRENT state of the CURRENT CBA, Mankins will be franchised under the CURRENT CBA, meaning he'll be receiving the average of the top 5 O-linemen from the 2010 season. The rules for applying the franchise tag mean that the Patriots either have to agree to those terms or to let Mankins go, because the final day to apply the tag will be before the expiration of the current CBA.



People like yourself contended that he'd be losing money by not signing, and also losing money by sitting out while the Patriots reduced the tender. Assuming he is franchised, he'll have made up the "lost" money regarding the tender, plus a bit more, and he'll have saved about half a season of wear-and-tear on his body in the process. He'll also have himself in position to go into free agency coming off of that franchise tag, at just 29 years old. He's lost
nothing, and improved his standing with an All-Pro nod.

Neither have the Pats because they can franchise him again. I remember the Seahawks franchised OT Walter Jones 2 straights seasons before agreeing to long-term deal. The Pats also obviously gain by not having the risk of a long-term commitment.