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Fracking is completely totally safe and anyway, it's worth it

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatsFanInVa, Nov 11, 2011.

  1. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Just read a book called. "The End of Country", good description of how all of this takes place, from how the gas companies try to prey on landowners to the impact of drilling... very concerning.

    Unfortunately, the author is/was struggling so it ended rather crappily.. but a good read nonetheless...

    http://www.amazon.com/End-Country-Seamus-McGraw/dp/1400068533
  3. Gainzo

    Gainzo Rookie

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    #11 Jersey

    If you haven't seen it yet I would recommend watching Gasland. It was a documentary that was released last year. The film maker is from PA and one of the Gas Company's wanted to buy his house/land.
  4. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It is in the Netflix queue(sp).....
  5. Titus Pullo

    Titus Pullo Banned

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    Of course, cheap, efficient conventional oil is NOT running low or anything. The reasons why we strip mine Western Canada, disturb the deep sea beds off our own shores, create earthquakes beneath our neighborhoods, pollute our drinking water tables, occupy sovereign nations for years on end, and send thousands of our fighting men and women to die abroad have NOTHING to do with our insatiable thirst for fossil fuels.

    And the IEA, the Pentagon, the U.S. Dept. of Energy, the German-British-Australian governments, Chevron, BP, Total and all the other entities who admitted global oil shortfall by 2013? All of them are actually IN ON the great "conspiracy" and lying to us to create "false shortage."

    Afterall, capitalism doesn't require growth, and growth doesn't require cheap energy or anything. :rolleyes:


    Nothing to see here!!
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2011
  6. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We look forward to you swearing off fossil fuels and running you life on renewables let us know how things are going. You will set a shining example I'm sure.
  7. Titus Pullo

    Titus Pullo Banned

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    Ah yes. The retarded rationalization that tries to assert that if you use the thing, your claims about the ramification of said thing must be untrue. Better not tell an alcoholic that booze is bad for you, considering I had a beer last night. :rolleyes:

    Because, of course, if you can't dispute the argument, you can always punt to conjured insinuations of hypocrisy. That's the conservative method.

    I have little doubt I leave a fraction of the carbon footprint that you do, gluttonous one. I'm sorry the greater point is routinely lost on you, but that's your problem, no one else's.

    Still avoiding that "OWS attacked first" thread you created, I see? Awwww.
    Last edited: Nov 11, 2011
  8. Titus Pullo

    Titus Pullo Banned

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    btw, yes i've seen Gasland. ... My third favorite documentary, behind only Inside Job and The Corporation. Friedman Conservatives hate those kinds of films.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2011
  9. Titus Pullo

    Titus Pullo Banned

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    [​IMG]

    Fracking Firm Admits It Caused Earthquakes in England

    So there it is. ... In black and white. ... A fracking corporation ADMITTING their technology literally causes earthquakes. Couple that with the rash of minor quakes throughout the rust belt, Oklahoma, Arkansas, etc. the past 3-4 years.

    Then notice how clever the soothing "new natural gas" commercials are that have become so prevalent lately. Good looking blonde comes marching out, speaking melodically about the "wonders" of "new, safe technology" in the "field of natural gas extraction!!" ... and dreams of "energy independence for a brighter American future" because "it just makes sense." :rolleyes:

    They're so careful never to say the word "fracking", "fracturing" nor anything about the toxic chemical shake that gets injected under the bedrock of U.S. neighborhoods and often into their drinking water. That kind of "surgeon general's warning" doesn't spur investment and happiness and gumdrops and lollipops. Nevermind that a growing number of Americans can light the water from their kitchen sink's faucet on fire. As the stunned director says in Gasland "ah, that's not supposed to happen."

    [​IMG]

    Increased fracturing, or "new drilling techniques," to conquer this "continent" of natural gas and shale oil here in America? It will do nothing but accelerate the environmental rotting process of this once-great nation.

    Even if the United States DOUBLED it's shale oil and natural gas production, assuming private enterprise somehow came up with all the mind-boggling infrastructure and logistical costs associated with such an expansion (during a time of austerity measures, mind you)... wait, no... you can say TRIPLED it if you like. ... It STILL isn't gonna come close to satiating even a fraction of our 89 million barrels per day appetite. Have you seen the figures for current production, comparing conventional and unconventional oil and gas? I have. They're easy to find on "teh Googles."

    Then imagine the legal costs for any drilling corporation that devastates a U.S. community for "ever more" of this crap.

    In the end, it's simple. The dirtier it gets, the more the costs are going to rise. Whether we're talking strip mining the American frontier, or drilling deep under the U.S. sea bed. ... Those costs are going rapidly upward. Both in terms of the infrastructural/extraction/refinement/distribution side of it, AND in the environmental and legal side of it.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2011
  10. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign On the Roster

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    peak oil....:yawn2:
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2011
  11. Titus Pullo

    Titus Pullo Banned

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    Yes, you keep saying this. But when challenged to flesh out why peak is not happening, or not a problem, you lack the capacity to write it out. That's because, utlimately, for all your self-congratulation and pompous screed, you really have NO idea what you're talking about. If you had any depth, you'd engage in the discussion, not merely lurk on the sidelines and over act expressively bored. But we understand, Mel Gibson fan. You're over matched on this forum, and you're slowly coming to that realization.

    You should stick trying to pass off the obvious as some epiphany.

    "China is about to enter a very dark period in their history!!"

    OK Nostradamus.
    Last edited: Nov 12, 2011
  12. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    There's a difference between intentional malfeasance and just not knowing how to do it yet. I know I've only recently learned anything at all about fracking, I expect its still kind of new. I'm not saying that people with kitchen sinks that light on fire aren't entitled to compensation, just that we can't treat the energy companies as azzholes just because they're still learning how to do this. We need energy and you can't expect a new method of acquiring it to be polished and perfected on day 1.
  13. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    I dunno - 20 years seems like a long enough time to "polish and perfect."
  14. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Harry's "F-cking Firm" will fix it, we're working on it now.
  15. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    You can if that method involved blowing through layers of rock that protect large aquifers and injecting the water supply with toxic chemicals. We don't do anything in this country without protecting the People, I thought.:rofl:
  16. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You thought wrong.. it is about protecting the bottom line of big corporations..

    The only war being won right now is the war on the environment..
    Last edited: Nov 13, 2011
  17. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I'm not too familiar with the specifics involved in this process, as in what's used and such, but on the surface it would seem to me that drilling holes in the ground and pumping toxic checmicals into them, would contaminate things a little bit. Again, I'm speaking generally here. The idea that we really don't even know what chemicals are being used should bother everyone. It bothers me that's for sure.

    Just one question though, what alternative energy infrastructure should we be building exactly?




    You're obsession with Peak Oil brings back memories of...nevermind. ;)

    Someday oil will run out. The question is whether or not that day is in our immediate future, coming future, or a long ways down the road. So while I don't think oil will be here forever, I don't believe we're on the brink of running dry like so many Peak Oil fanatics keep claiming. Either way, we should be planning for it's end, and our eventual conversion to an alternative fuel (I'm big on hydrogen personally). The problem with doing so, is the lack of leadership, common sense, and independent thinking. For every pol in the pockets of big oil, there's another who's either in the pockets of a Solyndra, or is a personally obsessed enviro-loon. The oil people don't want alternative planning, and the enviro's don't want oil to be a part of the future. The reality is that we don't have a viable alternative at the moment, and we will need oil until one is found, as well as to bridge the transition from that point forward. Good luck working out a 20, 30, 40 year plan with the powers that be.

    I'll see your :yawn2:, and raise you a :sleeping:
  18. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The most promising and mature renewable seems to be wind, but I'm not against the steeper investment you presently need for solar alongside it.

    And no, I don't think you get there overnight.

    Here's my problem with the present "oh no we're doomed" mindset (i.e., we're running on fossil fuels, therefore we will always run on fossil fuels, but OMG what if we run out, my God we'd better get into more and more exotic ways of getting fossil fuels.)

    When I was a kid growing up in the 70s, we had our first real national awakening to the problem of the oil based economy. We half-heartedly tried a little of everything: turn down/up the thermostats, tax breaks for a solar panel to power your toaster, etc. All the popular science magazines were full of the "by the year 2000" (or 2010, or 2020, or whatever) stories... and that was the time during which we would have built a more mature alternatives infrastucture. But we din't.

    A journey of a thousand miles starts with a first step. We took maybe another couple, then pretty much stopped. Now people complain that it's just soooooo far distant. Your observation that we'd need to sustain a policy for decades is absolutely right... and it should start now, with us.

    A couple of the things you need are a smarter grid (because power has to go from source to end user more efficiently,) and the most high-density way you can come up with to store electrical power (i.e. batteries), because we want energy to be portable without a tank full of liquid dinosaur corpse.

    So you need charging stations, or battery swap-out stations. You need a grid upgrade. And over on the other end of the wire carrying the juice, you need a higher and higher proportion of renewable power generation.

    In other words, there is a ton of work to do. That's terrible. It's not like people are sitting around on their asses with no work to do.

    Oh, wait.

    ;)

    PFnV
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2011
  19. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Too bad most here have never taken a Chemistry, Physics or math class beyond Calculus.
  20. chicowalker

    chicowalker On the Roster

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    That's pretty unlikely.

    It's also pretty irrelevant.

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