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Fox News Reports Iraq Security Forces Not Ready and should be scrapped

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by DarrylS, Sep 6, 2007.

  1. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Another report commisioned by Congress, guess a bunch of ex senior military officers and police experts, probably activists or democratic operatives.. looked at the very expensive Iraq Security Forces and did not like what they saw. Suggest disbanding and starting all over again.

    http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Sep06/0,4670,USIraq,00.html

    WASHINGTON — Iraq's security forces will be unable to take control of the country in the next 18 months, and Baghdad's national police force is so rife with corruption it should be scrapped entirely, according to a new independent assessment.

    The study, led by retired Marine Corps Gen. James Jones, is a sweeping and detailed look at Iraq's security forces that will factor heavily into Congress' upcoming debate on the war. Republicans see success by the Iraqi forces as critical to bringing U.S. troops home, while an increasing number of Democrats say the U.S. should stop training and equipping such units altogether.

    The 20-member panel of mostly retired senior military and police officers concludes that Iraq's military, in particular its army, shows the most promise of becoming a viable, independent security force with time. But the group predicts an adequate logistics system to support these ground forces is at least another two years away.

    The report also offers a scathing assessment of Iraq's Interior Ministry and recommends scrapping Iraq's national police force, which it describes as dysfunctional and infiltrated by militias.

    Overall, Iraqi security forces "have the potential to help reduce sectarian violence, but ultimately the ISF will reflect the society from which they are drawn," according to the report, a copy of which was obtained by The Associated Press. "Political reconciliation is the key to ending sectarian violence in Iraq."

    The United States has spent $19.2 billion on developing Iraq's forces, and plans to spend $5.5 billion more next year. According to Jones' study, the Iraqi military comprises more than 152,000 service members operating under the Defense Ministry, while the Interior Ministry oversees some 194,000 civilian security personnel, including police and border control.
     
  2. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    and from the Washington Post as well... let's see how the Bushies discredit THIS one... i mean, afterall, what does a commission of retired senior U.S. military officers "know about the situation on the ground in Iraq?" how are they qualified? :rolleyes:

    Iraqi Army Unable To Take Over Within A Year, Report Says

    Breakup of National Police Is Urged

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/05/AR2007090501282.html?hpid=topnews

    By Karen DeYoung
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Thursday, September 6, 2007; Page A01

    Iraq's army, despite measurable progress, will be unable to take over internal security from U.S. forces in the next 12 to 18 months and "cannot yet meaningfully contribute to denying terrorists safe haven," according to a report on the Iraqi security forces published today.

    The report, prepared by a commission of retired senior U.S. military officers, describes the 25,000-member Iraqi national police force and the Interior Ministry, which controls it, as riddled with sectarianism and corruption. The ministry, it says, is "dysfunctional" and is "a ministry in name only." The commission recommended that the national police force be disbanded.

    ...

    The assessment by the Independent Commission on the Security Forces of Iraq is one of several independent progress reports ordered by Congress for delivery before the administration presents its own scorecard next week. Members of the 20-member group, headed by retired Marine Gen. James Jones, traveled throughout Iraq over the summer and met with hundreds of U.S. and Iraqi officials as well as leading nongovernmental experts on the Iraqi forces. Jones will present the 152-page document, a copy of which was obtained by The Washington Post, in testimony today before the Senate and House Armed Services committees.
     
  3. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Saw it in the WAPO first, but googled it to see if any of the rightie feeds picked up this AP story.. prefer to post it under fox news reports than the WAPO, because then we spend all our time on the messenger rather than the message.
     
  4. bmf31c

    bmf31c Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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  5. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    well, technically that's still the AP story that Fox used there... and almost everybody uses...

    you can bet if it was a Faux original, it would feature its very own special sauce...
     
  6. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I didn't read the report, but what are you two trying to say? Discredit what? Does anyone even remotely understand the culture your trying to train there? I'm not sure what people are expecting from a people that aren't all that far from the stone age. Training them to something we'd find acceptable is obviously going to take time. That's why I've been telling you that no matter who is elected in 2008, their won't be a complete withdrawl. They'll keep 3-5 divisions there for 5-10 years easy. In assessing the quality and ability of the ISF, you need to consider where they were 3 years ago, and where they are today. The Army especially, has improved significantly. The police is where the trouble is. I'll read the link when I get some time later.
     
  7. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Wasn't the GAO report criticized because it was done by a bunch of "accountants".. anything that goes against the intent of the people @ 1600 Penn ave is discredited.
     
  8. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    BTW, another disengenuous heading. I read the article, and it said they'd scrap the Baghdad national police, and not the entire ISF. There is a considerable difference there. Maybe you just don't know the difference, and made an honest mistake.

    Jones' panel recommended scrapping Baghdad's national police force and starting over.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2007
  9. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No, they changed their headline since 3:00 AM...
     
  10. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    So this was the original headline of the story?


    Iraq Security Forces Not Ready and should be scrapped
     
  11. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yes it was...
     
  12. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Get Bush
    Get Bush
    Get Bush
     
  13. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Wow, that's some kind of heading for a GOP puppet outlet eh? They either got a phone call to take it down ASAP, or realized that the headline was disengenuous, or wrong in it's composition. I report, you decide. :D
     
  14. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Actually I think they picked up the AP story in the late to mid night, and then edited the title in the morning... somehow it is always the messenger, not the message.. could have posted the same thing from the WAPO, but thought Fox News would have more credibility for you.. the title of this thread was copied and pasted I added Fox News Reports..
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2007
  15. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well the report says that the Military is developing and not ready to stand on its own for awhile. Developing a military and a culture for the organization isn't an easy process. Wish they were ready to stqand on their own but it is what it is. Some of the criticism seems directed to the logistics infrastructure and equipment as opposed to the willingness of the soldiers to engage the enemy which seems to be making progress.

    The situation with national police seems much worse. Hopefully people with expertise can come up with suggestions to improve the situation.


    The General is a man with a lot of expertise and credibility and his words should be heeded.
     
  16. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    My simple point is that the headline, both you, and Fox posted, is incorrect according to the article itself. If you copied and pasted it from the original article this morning, then you are not at fault. Fox, or the AP is. Either way, I'm sure you saw the heading, and were excited to post what was written. Furthermore, you said it yourself in your original post.

    Another report commisioned by Congress, guess a bunch of ex senior military officers and police experts, probably activists or democratic operatives.. looked at the very expensive Iraq Security Forces and did not like what they saw. Suggest disbanding and starting all over again.

    So who is the messenger in this case, and what was the message? Was the message that the entire ISF needs to be flushed down the toilet and redone from scratch? Cuz from the article itself that surely isn't what's being said. Yet the headline for the MSM article, and the words in your original post state so.
     
  17. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    BTW Gen Jones said to congress today that the fact the Iraqi Army aren't ready to defend Iraq territorial integrity, isn't a negative.

    The negative tone of the MSM article doens't jibe with the Generals testominy. Check it out on CSPAN if they replay the testimony.
     
  18. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Not sure I was excited, but thanks for the forgiveness.. try not to make this stuff up.. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
     
  19. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Hey, what can I say. That's just the kind of guy I am. ;)
     

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