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Fourth-and-1 from the Pats’ 24-yard line

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by weswelker#83, Sep 28, 2009.

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  1. weswelker#83

    weswelker#83 Rookie

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    " Third quarter :It was fourth-and-1 from the Pats’ 24-yard line.
    Thirty-one other NFL coaches surely would have punted, and logic suggested Belichick would surrender the ball as well.
    Yet Belichick, as if trying to shock his team out of its stupor, went all Barry Switzer, circa 1995. He left Tom Brady(notes) and the rest of the offense on the field and empowered them to take over the game, and they absolutely appreciated the gesture."

    Jacobs: Even Belichick's Crazy Calls Are Genius ."I can't ever recall a moment like that," said Fred Taylor.

    Belichick call rekindles image of recent glory - NFL - Yahoo! Sports






    Talk about some serious chops!
  2. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    I thought it was all but a no-brainer to go for that. At that point the defense was not looking too good, that drive seemed to motivate the well-rested defense. Great call by BB. Also credit to Galloway and his extra late surge that made the attempt possible.
  3. emoney_33

    emoney_33 Rookie

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    I think it's pretty damn far from a no-brainer. Up 6 inside your own 30, the risk is huge. Nothing in life with high risk is a "no-brainer"
  4. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    Maybe not a no-brainer but if I were to close my eyes and guess which unit would have been out on the field I would have said the short yardage offense. Really I was more iffy about the 4th and 3 that we went for in ATL territory when we could've backed them up deep, but that's just me.
  5. Amnorix

    Amnorix Rookie

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    A great call because it worked, I really think the decision was dictated entirely by Belichick's confidence that his running game was superior to the Falcons' run defense.

    That said, I don't see it as a good call. Up by 6, with the defense having held the other guys to 10 points, it seems to me that punting makes more sense. The momentum shift if we get stuffed is off the charts.

    But hey, it's why they pay him the big bucks. And nobody calls me a Genius on a regular basis. :D

    Oh, and as if we didn't know it already -- BB could also be nicknamed BBB. Big Brass Balls.
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2009
  6. jeffd

    jeffd Rookie

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    I don't care how much you agree with that call. It was FAR from a no brainer. Even once you cross the 50 you put some thought into 4th and 1. You do recall our last 4th and 1, right? Went for about -3 yds.
    I did love the call, though. It was a great moment. BB basically said if you can't pick this up then we don't deserve to win. I think it was the exact smack in the face our offense needed.
  7. xmarkd400x

    xmarkd400x Rookie

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    I think it was a no brainer. It is only your human emotions that make it otherwise. There's a whole body of statistical evidence to support what BB did.

    I understand it's a higher risk than punting, but the reward is far greater also. IMO the reward outweighs the risk.

    Edit: Best part of the article:

    Last edited: Sep 28, 2009
  8. jeffd

    jeffd Rookie

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    First, I've never had that argument used against me. Kudos. Second, the rest of your post explains the thought proccess making it not a no brainer. An onside kick when you have no other way of getting the ball back is a no-brainer.
    Again, I agree with the call but it took HUGE BALLS to make.
  9. xmarkd400x

    xmarkd400x Rookie

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  10. klinefan

    klinefan Banned

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    What are the odds they don't make it? 20%?

    Even if they do make it at 80%, they aren't guaranteed even a FG at that point.

    I thought it was a horrific call. Why roll the dice that early? I can see going for it on the opponents 40 or 35, but your own 25?
  11. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    No doubt it did. I'm just saying that knowing BB's tendencies it didn't suprise me at all.

    Yes, if it was any other team it might have. For example in the game thread when Atlanta punted on 4th and 5 in our territory I thought it was a huge break for us and I'm sure they regret that because they didn't get the ball back for quite a while. Not saying they're comparable situations but they're both gut check time and I'm sure BB would have gone for it in their situation. BB makes alot of gutsy decision (on and off the field) that I feel like more other coaches should make that's part of what makes him a better coach.
  12. tanked_as_usual

    tanked_as_usual Banned

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    a 4th and 1 against the falcons is a good bet anywhere on the field......they are inexperienced up front and pretty light to boot

    if you can't gain a yard against the falcons......just go home
  13. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I was at the game, and was shocked at the call. Especially with the Falcons' quality offense. But, I also figured BB must KNOW they are going to make it. It was as ballsy as ballsy can be. Just think if they'd not made it, Atlanta scores and we lose by one point. It would've been totally on BB's head.

    Looking back, I LOVE that call. :rocker:
  14. tobias funke

    tobias funke Rookie

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    Realistically, that is the kind of call you'll only see when you're playing Madden with your buddies.

    There's no way to argue that one. If they don't make the yard (very possible), it's basically guaranteed they give up 3 points, maybe even 7 and the lead in what was at that point a very close game.

    The fact that Bill made the call and the offense got the yard made it a great play and a big turning point in the game, but it very easily could have gone the other way and led to disaster. Let's not kid ourselves.

    All that being said, I got chills when we got it and knew we'd win the game after that. Magical stuff.
  15. ForThoseAboutToRock

    ForThoseAboutToRock Rookie

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    I'd rather have our team out there being active and aggressive towards making critical plays to win games as opposed to being reactive and passive while giving the other team their opportunity.

    The strength of the Falcons is their offense. What do you think Falcons fans and coaches wanted the Patriots to do on 4th and <1? My money says they take a big sigh of relief if the punt unit runs out there. The decision forced the Atlanta defense (their weaker unit) to step up and make a huge play, it's a classic game situation of taking your strength straight to your opponent's heart... they come up and make the play, good for them, otherwise, you've just proven one thing both to yourself and to them: when it mattered most, they couldn't stop you.

    This is how football is meant to be played. This is what you would do on a playground or while playing Madden. Those who would punt on 4th and <1 when the offensive line is clearly having a good game against the defensive line are merely trying to save face to keep from facing heavy criticism for making bold and (somewhat) risky decisions in the event that things don't turn out how they'd want them to... not a winning mentality in my book.
  16. Bostonian1962

    Bostonian1962 Rookie

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    BB has nads the size of Massachusetts! He said basically, I trust my team, and they responded. Between BB, and Brady getting fired up, the team responded. Both men are absolutely GREAT leaders! When I saw Brady fired up on the sideline, I said to my wife "the Pats have this game in the bad now". I really felt that.

    Also, if you recall, in the Atlanta series before that, the Falcons punted from the Patriots 39 on fourth down. Great coaches are not afraid to trust their men.
  17. weswelker#83

    weswelker#83 Rookie

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    I agree with you , that s the best explanation , i might add also that a successful 4th down brings confidence and momentum to the whole team :Off. and Def.
  18. tobias funke

    tobias funke Rookie

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    I gotta admit it's pretty funny the way some people are suggesting this was the only call to make.

    When is the last time Belichick (or any other coach) went for it on 4th down behind their own 40 with a lead?

    The only reason it was 'the right call' is because Belichick made it the right call.
  19. PatsWickedPissah

    PatsWickedPissah PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The go for it call was far more than BB's analysis that the offensive line was stronger than the Atlanter D line and that the RBs were geting it done Sunday. He deliberately used the situation to fire up an offense that has so far under achieved. BB looks at the big picture and realized that this was an opportunity to influence the players in a constructive way that needed to be done. That's why BB is a super HC and I'm just a puzzled fan saying WTF? as the offense stayed on the field.
  20. ForThoseAboutToRock

    ForThoseAboutToRock Rookie

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    Only to people who can't see the forest through the trees. This is what tough, aggressive football teams that are hellbent on seizing victory should do. If the offense failed in that situation, then yeah, it falls to the defense to step up and make a critical play, but still the situation called for a critical play; whoever made it would take a step towards winning the game.

    Shying away from asking your team to make critical plays is how you end up a mediocre team saying "this game just got away from us at some point" in your post game presser on your way to a 6-10 record, in my opinion.
  21. TruthSeeker

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    Statistics show that the percentage move is going for it in any 4th and 1 situation (except when situational play becomes important near the very end of the game) i.e. your team will win more the more you go for it. That being said, 99% of the time, teams punt in that situation.

    To me, the crazy call was made by Atlanta when they punted on a 4th and 5 (I think) with 7 minutes to go in the game after having already proved that they couldn't stop the Patriots running game. I went crazy over the call - and it was in the Patriots favor!
  22. tobias funke

    tobias funke Rookie

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    Just stop.

    Your argument is essentially "only mediocre teams dont go for it on 4th and inches from their own 25 with a 6 point lead in the 3rd quarter".

    Hint: you should count the number of good teams in history, then count the number of times a team has gone for it in that situation. I have a feeling the numbers won't be as close as you're suggesting.
  23. weswelker#83

    weswelker#83 Rookie

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    I just watched the play again on my Dvr , this is what the Tv journalists said about BB call to go for it:


    Journalist 1:
    "I don't agree with this call, at all "

    Journalist 2 :
    "I don't either."


    Journalist 1:
    "What an opportunity for the Falcons !"
  24. tobias funke

    tobias funke Rookie

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    Please don't get me wrong, I love the call just like everyone else does, especially because it worked.

    But what if the handoff doesn't go smoothly, or if Sammy got stopped for a loss?

    I'm sure the monday morning quarterbacks here would still think it was the greatest thing since sliced bread, right?
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2009
  25. TruthSeeker

    TruthSeeker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The time is going to come - I don't know when - when the flavor of the day changes in the NFL and teams start doing the things that maximize victory such as always going for it on 4th and short. Don't kid yourself that not making a 4th and short is giving away the game - statistics prove otherwise. Not going for it reduces the chances of victory.

    When everyone is going for it on 4th down - because it's the right strategy to use - then the few that are still punting the ball will be shown for the cowards they are. This punting is worse than the "prevent defense".
  26. weswelker#83

    weswelker#83 Rookie

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    In this business , there is no "If".

    Great Players always deliver and we just witnessed a great moment of Pats football.
  27. tobias funke

    tobias funke Rookie

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    This isn't anything new, bud. Even Easterbrook has been harping on this strategy since even before the 2007 'eff-you' season.

    It doesn't change the fact that there is a huge difference between the 4th downs Belichick generally tries to go for (99.9% of the time on the opponents' side of the field or at least very close), and doing it on your own 25 in the 3rd quarter trying to maintain a slim lead in what's been a close game.

    Honestly I'd be surprised to know of another time Belichick tried it in his own career, and I'd be surprised if he tries it again all season. It's possible, but please don't pretend like this is something you're going to see storming around the league like the wildcat. LOL
  28. tobias funke

    tobias funke Rookie

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    I don't want to tell you that you sound like a homer but you really sound like a homer.

    There's no "if", huh?

    What "if" the Patriots had converted the 4th and 13 in the Super Bowl?

    Then it would have been the greatest call in the history of sports, right?

    I didn't see many people take that position after the game... :rofl:
  29. fair catch fryar

    fair catch fryar Rookie

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    Isn't Massachusetts the 4th 0r 5th smallest state?:rolleyes: Anyways, he's got kahoneys and of course all the confidence in his Offense to do that.
  30. ForThoseAboutToRock

    ForThoseAboutToRock Rookie

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    Don't be rude... it's a message board meant for open debate. I'm not attacking a single point you've made. In fact I agree that, had the call failed and the defense made the stop, people would be furious over the decision. I wouldn't be one of them.

    My argument is close to that. Mediocre teams would do things that give the other team the opportunity to get back into the game. Mediocre teams don't seize on crucial opportunities to take control of the game. The best way for the Patriots to stop the Falcons from scoring in that situation was to keep their drive going - punting gives the Falcons the ball on their ~30 down by only a single score... the game's wide open for the taking at that point; we fully agree on this, I believe



    There have been studies done that statistically show that punting on 4th and short is bad for winning football games. Those stats are skewed towards the maroon zone, however, the findings are clear.

    SOURCE: TMQ: Punting the punt - ESPN Page 2
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