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Former U.S. Commander In Iraq: War Is Lost

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PressCoverage, Jun 4, 2007.

  1. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    Former U.S. Commander In Iraq: War Is Lost

    Retired Army Lt. Gen. Ricardo Sanchez commanded U.S. forces during the first year of the Iraq war. In “his first interview since he retired last year,” Sanchez has said that the war in Iraq is lost, and the best outcome America can hope for is to “stave off defeat.” From his remarks after a recent speech in San Antonio:

    “I think if we do the right things politically and economically with the right Iraqi leadership we could still salvage at least a stalemate, if you will — not a stalemate but at least stave off defeat,” Sanchez told the San Antonio Express-News. “It’s also kind of important for us to answer the question, ‘What is victory?’, and at this point I’m not sure America really knows what victory is.” […]

    “I am absolutely convinced that America has a crisis in leadership at this time and we’ve got to do whatever we can to help the next generation of leaders do better than we have done over the past five years,” Sanchez said, “better than what this cohort of political and military leaders have done.”​

    Sanchez “is the highest-ranking former military leader yet to suggest the Bush administration has fallen short in Iraq.” In April, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) also said that at this stage, the war in Iraq “can only be won diplomatically, politically and economically“:

    “I believe…that this war is lost, and this surge is not accomplishing anything, as is shown by the extreme violence in Iraq this week,” Reid told journalists. […]

    “I know I was the odd guy out at the White House, but I told him at least what he needed to hear … I believe the war at this stage can only be won diplomatically, politically and economically.”

    At the time, the right wing viciously attacked Reid, calling him “an embarrassment” and charging that his comments were “very, very close to treason.” But since that time, other generals, in addition to Sanchez, have spoken out against the war.

    Nevertheless, conservatives continue to pound the issue. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY) has threatened that if a vote of no-confidence on Alberto Gonzales is brought to the floor, he may bring an amendment on “whether the Iraq War is actually ‘lost’ as Reid has suggested.”
     
  2. All_Around_Brown

    All_Around_Brown In the Starting Line-Up

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    Is this guy a traitor or what? These scumbags like Mitch McConnell deserve the stocks for treason.

    The Republicans and Bush will be solely responsible for breaking the US military when all is said and done.
     
  3. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    must just be political partisan hackery, of course...

    must just be a "get bush" syndrome... :rolleyes:
     
  4. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I don't see where he says "the war is lost". Are my eyes decieving me?
     
  5. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Well it says :

    "I believe…that this war is lost"

    but there's no hint about the missing words.

    Maybe he really said "I believe that if all US troops quit and go home that this war is lost". Who knows . . . part of the sentence is missing.
     
  6. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    No, you made me look again, and those were that POS Reid's words. Sanchez didn't say that, unless I'm missing something. Which I very well may be mind you.
     
  7. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    no, that is Reid saying that... and, as much as i hate to admit it, RW has a point...

    i can't find anywhere where it says Sanchez said "the War is lost"... he did say winning is not possible, and the best we can hope for to "salvage at least a stalemate" ...
     
  8. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    The only thing I agree with from this, yet another stunningly misleading, thread is Sanchez' comment that "“It’s also kind of important for us to answer the question, ‘What is victory?’, and at this point I’m not sure America really knows what victory is.”"
     
  9. scout

    scout Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #15 Jersey

    We won't know what victory is until the troops pull out and Bush's spin machine starts to proclaim victory. Not being a wiseass, but thats a sure thing.
     
  10. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    of course that's the only innocuous thing you can let yourself agree with...

    however, wtf do you mean by "another stunningly misleading thread?"

    he called the situation "bleak"
    he said victory is no longer possible... unless, ofcourse, we move the goalposts and "re-examine" what we wish to call "victory"... (how convenient)...
    he said the best we can hope for is a stalemate...

    it is irresponsible of ThinkProgress to suggest he said "lost" if he's not quoted as saying such in his speech (still looking for the speech transcripts)... but, on the other hand, he's all but did say it... he said we can't win unless we change the definition of "win", he said we could tie... oh... i guess he's not literally saying we've lost... but wow...
     
    Last edited: Jun 4, 2007
  11. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I just call things how I see them.

    At any rate, can you tell me what the headline of the ThinkProgress story says? Tell me that the headline is perfectly accurate, and not in any way misleading. This is exactly how media slants news, presents a bias, or poses a personal POV. It's why you need to use as many sources as possible, and in the end decide for yourself what you think is really going on.
     
  12. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Nice to see you confess -- even back-handedly -- that your spin cycle on the title of this thread is totally bogus.



    //
     
  13. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Sanchez has a point about the crisis in leadership. He is careful in how he phrases it. He could be refering to the 'leadership' that opposes the efforts of the troops and the resulting political arguments as the problem.
     
  14. All_Around_Brown

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    I think he has a point. I have heard various versions of victory as some form of stable government capable of defending itself. Funny that that seems to be exactly what they had before we went in. Wasnt great, wasnt strong...but at least people could go to work and school.

    Huh...weve come a long way. Well done Bushies.
     
  15. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah, it was stable so long as you weren't from Halabja, or being tossed into a meat grinder. Wasn't great from where you and I are sitting maybe.
     
  16. All_Around_Brown

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    Yeah, we should never have given them those nasty weapons in the 80s. Or enticed an uprising then turned our back. etc etc This is why I oppose neoconservatism.

    All things are probably just swell in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan though huh? Perfect little utopias.
     
  17. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Ummmm, I know it's juicy and all to print a headline like "Top military general say's war is lost". But you really need to look at WHO it is saying it before you take it for the gospel.

    If what he is saying is true (I won't even get in that debate), then Ricardo Sanchez is arguably the BIGGEST military reason for it. He was a POS leader and had no F-ing clue about the post-war difficulty we faced. When it comes to "crappy performances" in the history of US military leadership, he will one day right up there I'm sure. His war resume consists of;

    1. Failing to recognize and respond aggressively enough to the widening and deepening insurgency.
    2. The personal "pissing contest" between him and Bremer exemplified the disunity in leadership that has been cited as one of the major failures of the first year of the War (which obviously in this case, was the most crucial one).
    3. Abu Ghraib
    4. These failings (among others) have lead to him be considered the "Westmoreland of Iraq". Not very flattering. His misunderstanding of the conflict he faced played directly into the enemy's hands.

    You can go on if you want. It's one thing to "support the troops", and say that Bushco refused to listen to advice from his generals, but It's another to give a complete pass to the military leadership that failed to do what what they should/could have. Sanchez was given, arguably, much more latitude then the generals that came after him and he squandered the momentul we had after the initial victories. He wasn't alone, but as the top guy, a lot of our early failure falls to HIM (at least partially).

    Believe me, I am a strong critic of Buch, Rumsfeld, Cheney (et all) and the piss-poor leadership during the prosecution of this war, but there has some accountability from the military leadership as well. And this POS Sanchez is at the top of that list of incompetence.

    From there, any posision or statement he makes on the war is basically given close scrutiny for me. Don't just fall for the headline. Look Deeper
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2007
  18. mr3putt

    mr3putt 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Sorry my friend but....

    Sanchez testified in front of Congress that a successfull occupation would require over 400,000 US troops. He was fired for that.

    Bremer was a complete disaster and a Bush appointee that broke the Bathists and screwed up any chance of post invasion success.
    This mess lies squarely in the laps of Bush/Cheney/Wolfy/Bremer/Rummy.

    FYI..It was a Rummy memo that ordered Sanchez to squeeze detainees at Abu for intellligence

    You Sir are dead wrong pointing the finger at Sanchez.
     
  19. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    And you sir, don't have a clue if you point the finger solely at the administration and IGNORE some of the FAILURES made by senior military leadership during the early part of the war. You're either a partisan hack, or have no understanding of the conflict in question justify. I don't know you well enough to make that judgement. Bottom line, plenty of blame to go around

    Lets start with where we agree..... Bremer, was a disaster. Both his an Sanchez's personal dislike for each other clouded the way they dealt with each other and HURT the overall effort. I expect more from field Generals

    and FYI - It was SANCHEZ's name at the bottom of the memo that authorized action beyond what was accepted practice. You wanna throw it all to Rummy, whatever. But you ignore that SANCHEZ's name was at the bottom of the memo, which means he signed off on it.

    and personally, I don't give a rat's fukc why "the administration" says they fired him. He was removed and eventually resigned from the Military as a result of Abu Ghraib and fanning the flames of the insurgency. He was NEVER getting another command given the sihtty job he did in Iraq. Even he ADMITS the Abu role (scroll to related events).

    Like I said. I defend almost NOTHING about how our government prosecuted the iraq war, but I also know a thing or two about military leadership, and by and large Sanchez FAILURES are still being felt to this day in Iraq. Because you disagree with the higher levels of out government, it DOES NOT GIVE A PASS for incompetence at the General military leadership. This ain't about the troops, they've always done what we've asked.

    There is a decent book out about the failures of people like Sanchez (among MANY others) out there called Fiasco: The American Military Adventure in Iraq by T. Ricks. Read it, then you'll have a better understand of the FACTS and what I'm saying. Like I said, There is PLENTY of blame. Sanchez deserves his fair share.
     
  20. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    first off, get bent ... second, it's not my title, it's the direct headline from think progress... if i changed the headline, you'd be b*tching about that too... so, get over yourself...

    regardless, he all but said it... so leave your semantics for convenient bible deductions...
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2007

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