Forget the Welker drops, it's about making stops; defense wins championships

[MoLewisrocks]

The Patriots had a lead late in both Super Bowl losses but couldn't make a defensive stand.
Ravens prove once again defense wins championships.

In a 34-29 game...

The Ravens didn't stop SF, SF stopped itself. 2nd and goal at the 5 in 4 down territory with 2 minutes to play...and they pass the ball 3 times for naught. That wasn't about defense winning championships. It was about a coaching staff out thinking itself. They ran the ball in that situation 70% of the time until tonight. That was what got them there.

 

[MoneyFX]

True. Defense wins championships.

 

[josh24]

I'd put the 2007, 2010-2012 playoff losses more on the offense than the defense given that we were/are an offensive-minded team. It is absolutely unacceptable that a team with an 35+ point avg per game gets 14, 21, 17 and 13 respectively. One time is excusable, but FOUR? Nine words for the OC: Changing the gameplan over the course of a game. That was all we needed.

OTOH, once again (2012 BAL), defense wins championships...

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I'd put the 2007, 2010-2012 playoff losses more on the offense than the defense given that we were/are an offensive-minded team. It is absolutely unacceptable that a team with an 35+ point avg per game gets 14, 21, 17 and 13 respectively. One time is excusable, but FOUR? Nine words for the OC: Changing the gameplan over the course of a game. That was all we needed.

OTOH, once again (2012 BAL), defense wins championships...

SF coaches changed the game plan and it cost them a Lombardi. They were averaging over 6 yards per carry and they threw the ball three times inside the five and threw the ball on a 2 pt. conversion. They threw the ball too much in the first half and nearly dug themselves an insurmountable hole. In the end they failed to stick with what got them there, particularly in the red zone, and that and not a defense which was gassed down the stretch is what won the Ravens a Championship.

 

[DocHoliday]

SF coaches changed the game plan and it cost them a Lombardi. They were averaging over 6 yards per carry and they threw the ball three times inside the five and threw the ball on a 2 pt. conversion. They threw the ball too much in the first half and nearly dug themselves an insurmountable hole. In the end they failed to stick with what got them there, particularly in the red zone, and that and not a defense which was gassed down the stretch is what won the Ravens a Championship.

Sorry but this is BS. It's a no-win situation - if they played the same way they always played, it would've been 'they couldn't adapt', if they changed things up you get what you wrote.

 

[condon84]

Our defense can't a nosebleed when it counts. But our offense has underperformed in all of our playoff loses in the past 5 years.

We just don't have the playmakers we used to when we won SBs on both sides of the ball.

Mayo was in position to make a play in last year's SB on an Eli TD pass but he seemed unaware of what was going on. Bruschi would have made that play. Welker was in position to seal the game but dropped it. Troy would have made that play.

Boldin made plays tonight. So did the Ravens D.

 

[Logik]

Wait, what crucial Wes Welker drop am I suppose to forget about?

 

[randomk1]

It's a team effort but this O always gets into one tough match up in the playoffs and usually it's them who end up ****ting the bed.

This team is finesse. At least when Gronk is not out there.

 

[ausbacker]

Both.

10 char.

 

[Patradomous]

Brady has not come close to what Joe Flacco did in this years post season.
Lets get that out of the way right now.
Look at 07 highest scoring offense in the history of the universe and you only put up 14 in the SB.
The Giants drive the ball 89 yards in two minutes because the D couldn't make one play.
They do the same thing 4 years later. The offense failed them and the D played well enough to lose.

Say what you want but tonights game being delayed over a half an hour and the Bmore offense not touching it for 84 minutes was a factor tonight. But they were resilient enough to make plays offensively and defensively when they had to.

 

[UK_Pat37]

For the thousandth time, it was NOT a "drop." Slightly off-target ball by Brady to a wide open receiver, with no pressure on him to speak of. A ball an NFL receiver should make a play on more often than not.

No that you're edified, have a nice day and maybe go learn a thing or two about how football is played.

I swear the Welker hate/ignorance around is contagious.

As a coach, I preach to players that if the ball hits your palms, there's no excuse to not catch it.

You wanna be called elite and get paid elite money? Make those catches.

Now stop sounding like an obnoxious idiot.

 

[RhodyPatriot]

The Patriots had a lead late in both Super Bowl losses but couldn't make a defensive stand.
Ravens prove once again defense wins championships.

Colin Kaepernick, a QB with lightning speed, an accurate cannon for an arm but with only TEN NFL games under his belt as a starter is allowed to audible at the line on 4th down and calls for a fade pass.
And that came after he threw a riveting 2 yd pass in the flat.
AWFUL playcalling by the Niners on that entire sequence. Brutal!!!!!!!
Jim Harbaugh gagged big time.
The Niners needed to spread that D and let that QB run and run and run for the end zone.
Instead Harbaugh allowed his young and inexperienced QB to THINK and it cost them a championship.
Sorry but I can't give great credit to the Ravens D.
Niners fatal wounds were self inflicted.

 

[PatsSox363804]

Brady has not come close to what Joe Flacco did in this years post season.
Lets get that out of the way right now.
Look at 07 highest scoring offense in the history of the universe and you only put up 14 in the SB.
The Giants drive the ball 89 yards in two minutes because the D couldn't make one play.
They do the same thing 4 years later. The offense failed them and the D played well enough to lose.

Say what you want but tonights game being delayed over a half an hour and the Bmore offense not touching it for 84 minutes was a factor tonight. But they were resilient enough to make plays offensively and defensively when they had to.

Sadly this is correct. I'd love to see what Brady would do with the downfield weapons that Flacco had in this run but that will never happen. Fact is that outside of Moss Brady has never really had a guy that can make a difficult catch in traffic whereas Boldin bailed Flacco out several times tonight. Add in to that the deep passes to Jones and Smith throughout their run and it's been one hell of an offensive showing the the Ravens.

 

[ivanvamp]

Brady has not come close to what Joe Flacco did in this years post season.
Lets get that out of the way right now.
Look at 07 highest scoring offense in the history of the universe and you only put up 14 in the SB.
The Giants drive the ball 89 yards in two minutes because the D couldn't make one play.
They do the same thing 4 years later. The offense failed them and the D played well enough to lose.

Say what you want but tonights game being delayed over a half an hour and the Bmore offense not touching it for 84 minutes was a factor tonight. But they were resilient enough to make plays offensively and defensively when they had to.

Flacco's 4-game run:
vs Ind (W, 24-9): 12-23, 282 yds, 2 td, 0 int, 125.6 rating
vs Den (W, 38-35): 18-34, 331 yds, 3 td, 0 int, 116.2 rating
vs NE (W, 28-13): 21-36, 240 yds, 3 td, 0 int, 106.2 rating
vs SF (W, 34-31): 22-33, 287 yds, 3 td, 0 int, 124.2 rating
TOT: 73-126 (57.9%), 1140 yds, 11 td, 0 int, 117.1 rating
AVG: 18-32, 285 yds, 3 td, 0 int

Tom Brady's 3-game run in 2004:
vs Ind (W, 20-3): 18-27, 144 yds, 1 td, 0 int, 92.2 rating
vs Pit (W, 41-27): 14-21, 207 yds, 2 td, 0 int, 130.5 rating
vs Phi (W, 24-21): 23-33, 236 yds, 2 td, 0 int, 110.2 rating
TOT: 55-81 (67.9%), 587 yds, 5 td, 0 int, 109.4 rating
AVG: 18-27, 196 yds, 2 td, 0 int

Pretty comparable, though Flacco's TD ratio is crazy.

 

[TinhWoodhead]

Joe Flacco was playing like another Joe....

 

[RhodyPatriot]

Wait, what crucial Wes Welker drop am I suppose to forget about?

The only drop of note Wes has had was this year against the Ravens but it wasn't crucial.
Play in the SB last year was not a drop. A catchable ball on a terrible throw, yes, but it was not a drop. That was on Brady more than Welker.

 

[SHOWTIME15]

The pats need 2 or 3 big physical wide receivers..dumping welker for bowe would be a start. The ravens have jones, smith and boldin, the giants had manningham, cruz and nicks, the packers had jennings, jones and nelson...lthe patriots have welker and lloyd....it seems clear where the problem is.

 

[patsfan-1982]

that was not a easy catch that Welker droped he is not that guy that make dose plays thats why they got lloyd, as for the offense as a whole everyone is talking about the pats need a big play WR but we forget thats the pats #1 opt and maybe the hardest guy in the NFL to cover ( Rob Gronkowski ) has not played in or was no way neer 100% in last years SB and this years AFCCG

as for the defense that a whole other story if the offense dose not score 30 and make the other team one dimensional they are in the bottom 20 in the NFL, they need more dept and talent at DB and a DT that can push the pocket back and beat he's guy one on one as Wilfork eats up 2 blockers

 

[condon84]

Flacco's 4-game run:
vs Ind (W, 24-9): 12-23, 282 yds, 2 td, 0 int, 125.6 rating
vs Den (W, 38-35): 18-34, 331 yds, 3 td, 0 int, 116.2 rating
vs NE (W, 28-13): 21-36, 240 yds, 3 td, 0 int, 106.2 rating
vs SF (W, 34-31): 22-33, 287 yds, 3 td, 0 int, 124.2 rating
TOT: 73-126 (57.9%), 1140 yds, 11 td, 0 int, 117.1 rating
AVG: 18-32, 285 yds, 3 td, 0 int

Tom Brady's 3-game run in 2004:
vs Ind (W, 20-3): 18-27, 144 yds, 1 td, 0 int, 92.2 rating
vs Pit (W, 41-27): 14-21, 207 yds, 2 td, 0 int, 130.5 rating
vs Phi (W, 24-21): 23-33, 236 yds, 2 td, 0 int, 110.2 rating
TOT: 55-81 (67.9%), 587 yds, 5 td, 0 int, 109.4 rating
AVG: 18-27, 196 yds, 2 td, 0 int

Pretty comparable, though Flacco's TD ratio is crazy.

Flacco had twice as many TDs and yards. How is this comparable?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

Brady has not come close to what Joe Flacco did in this years post season.
Lets get that out of the way right now.
Look at 07 highest scoring offense in the history of the universe and you only put up 14 in the SB.
The Giants drive the ball 89 yards in two minutes because the D couldn't make one play.
They do the same thing 4 years later. The offense failed them and the D played well enough to lose.

Say what you want but tonights game being delayed over a half an hour and the Bmore offense not touching it for 84 minutes was a factor tonight. But they were resilient enough to make plays offensively and defensively when they had to.

We know who Brady's weapons were in 2001. I think we forget that in 2003 and 2004 he was throwing TD passes to a linebacker. There is a reason for that. And his primary receivers were a smurf and a possession receiver. Augmented by his backs. His primary TE was a blocker. Brady's never had the kind of deep receiving corps that Flacco was playing with last night. Never even had a shot at playing with two healthy TE's, In '07 it was essentially Moss and Welker. But his OL and the Giants DL had some say in whom he could target for most of the night.

I agree that the offense failed us to some degree. But so did the D. And in each instance a glance at the active roster would lead me to fault someone other than simply the QB for that happening. Belichick himself realized after 2007 (although it apparently didn't really sink in until 2009) that if defenses could take away Moss and/or Welker we had nothing. So he jettisoned Moss and added two dynamic TE's who unfortunately can't stay on the field in tandem. To counter that he added...two rookie rb's he couldn't trust all rookie season and don't even remind me about the outside threat he chose. This season he replaced him with a guy a little better than 2011 Branch and the ghost of Deion Branch. He planned to replace Welker with Edelman, but that didn't last long. Brandy's weapons have always been suspect. That he's accomplished as much as he has with the combinations of them and an aging defense Bill finally opted to transition into an inexperienced one on the fly is amazing.

Joe Flacco couldn't do that in his first 4 seasons. He's a streaky QB and he got hot in spurts throughout his first 5 seasons but it wasn't until he got weapons and changed OC's to someone willing to utilize them that he put it all together in the last month of this season. I'll be interested to see which Joe Flacco emerges in 2013 when many of those weapons on defense as well as offense are no longer at his disposal.

Just listening to Zo waxing poetic about how anyone who isn't ready to annoint him as elite it a fool. And Gresh pontificating about how Kaepernick won't be after 10 weeks as a starter. Kneejerk assessments. All based on short sample sizes. Brady hasn't gotten it done in the last 5 seasons but truth be told he never really had a legit shot between injuries to himself and others on offense and that transitional defense. Flacco had no excuse not to win unless the 49ers wore out his defense and finished the game strong. They instead spit the bit on offense down by 5 inside the 5 in 4 down territory with 2 minutes to go. Had they not done that Joe Flacco wouldn't be an MVP today and folks would be pointing to the fact that his offense stalled in the second half and let SF back into it.