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For what it is worth – Belichick and Shanahan

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by shatch62, Jan 10, 2006.

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  1. shatch62

    shatch62 Rookie

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    For what it is worth – Belichick and Shanahan

    There have been a couple of posts by Denver fans saying Shanahan has out coached BB during the coaching history. I was curious and decided to take a look

    Since 2000 – when Belichick took over the Pats – the Patriots and the Shanahan coached Broncos have a similar overall (regular season) records.

    New England
    Overall Record: 63-33 (65.6%)
    Home Record: 35-13 (72.9%)
    Away Record: 28-20 (58.3%)

    Denver
    Overall Record: 61-35 (62.2%)
    Home Record: 37-11 (77.1%)
    Away Record: 24-24 (50.0%)

    From this is appears that BB has been more well rounded – winning at home and on the road – while Shanahan has dominated in Denver but has been average to above average on the road. I say above average because most teams would consider going 4-4 on the road a “successful†year and that has been what Shanahan has been able to do.

    Over the course of the last 6 years the Pats have played the Broncos 5 time. Below are the outcomes of the games:

    Year Location Final Score
    2000 DEN Pats: 28 – Den: 19
    2001 DEN Pats: 20 – Den: 31
    2002 NE Pats: 16 – Den: 24
    2003 DEN Pats: 30 – Den: 26
    2004 No Game
    2005 DEN Pats: 20 – Den: 28

    During the match-up history the Broncos have won 3 out of the 5 games. One factor that has been in the Broncos favor has been the site of the game. 4 of the 5 match-ups were played in Denver giving them a sizable advantage.

    Don’t know if this proves one coach is better than the other. I, along with the vast majority of you believe the BB is the best in the game. While we, as Pats fans should be concerned by the fact that the game is in Denver – where Shanahan has lost only 11 games in the last 6 years – there is one fact that I think is interesting and reassuring. 2 of those 11 losses that Shanahan has suffered at home were at the hands of the Belichick lead Patriots.
  2. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Interesting research. BB seems to have this team on a trend to get above .500 (I believe they are once again following the Jax game), seems positive to me. :)
  3. Bronco Freak

    Bronco Freak Banned

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    Do you really count that game vs DANNY KANNELL!?!?!?

    pfffff
  4. sieglo

    sieglo Rookie

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    You're going to be wishing you had Kannell in there when BB and the Pats give Jake the Snake the old Manning treatment this weekend.
  5. shatch62

    shatch62 Rookie

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    Yeah I actually do. Shanahan thought so highly of him that he put the game in his hands at the end. Look at the gamebook for that game:

    http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/gamebook/NFL_20031103_NE@DEN

    Denver leading 24-23 with 6:13 left in the game and the offensive mastermind (Shanahan) calls the following.
    Denver Broncos at 6:13
    1-10-DEN 34 (6:13) 26-C.Portis left tackle to DEN 40 for 6 yards (54-T.Bruschi).
    2-4-DEN 40 (5:37) 26-C.Portis up the middle to DEN 46 for 6 yards (95-R.Phifer). R17
    1-10-DEN 46 (4:58) 26-C.Portis left tackle to DEN 49 for 3 yards (50-M.Vrabel).
    2-7-DEN 49 (4:16) 13-D.Kanell pass to 26-C.Portis to NE 41 for 10 yards (55-W.McGinest). P18
    Penalty on NE-55-W.McGinest, Defensive Holding, declined.
    1-10-NE 41 (4:08) 13-D.Kanell pass incomplete to 84-S.Sharpe.
    2-10-NE 41 (4:05) 13-D.Kanell pass to 84-S.Sharpe to NE 35 for 6 yards (26-E.Wilson).
    3-4-NE 35 (3:21) 13-D.Kanell pass incomplete to 84-S.Sharpe (37-R.Harrison).
    4-4-NE 35 (3:17) 4-M.Knorr punts 34 yards to NE 1, Center-83-M.Leach, downed by DEN-83-M.Leach.

    Just over 4 minutes in the game, Portis has just ripped off runs of 6, 6 and 3 yards. So on the next 3 plays Shanahan calls for a pass.

    On 3-4 he goes pass instead of run. Shanahan had no issue with Kanell.

    Pats take the safety putting the Broncos up by 3 (26-23) and give the ball back with 2:49 left to play.

    Denver’s next series
    Denver Broncos at 2:49, (1st play from scrimmage 2:46)
    1-10-DEN 15 (2:46) 26-C.Portis right guard to DEN 17 for 2 yards (96-R.Lyle).
    Timeout #1 by NE at 02:41.
    2-8-DEN 17 (2:41) PENALTY on DEN-78-M.Lepsis, False Start, 5 yards, enforced at DEN 17 - No Play.
    2-13-DEN 12 (2:41) 26-C.Portis up the middle to DEN 19 for 7 yards (50-M.Vrabel).
    Timeout #2 by NE at 02:31.
    3-6-DEN 19 (2:31) 13-D.Kanell pass incomplete to 85-A.Lelie (24-T.Law).
    4-6-DEN 19 (2:26) 4-M.Knorr punts 48 yards to NE 33, Center-83-M.Leach. 80-T.Brown to NE 42 for 9 yards (55-K.Burns).

    3-6, could have run one more time and make the Pats burn their last timeout or take it down to the 2 minute warning. Nope. Pass.

    Pats get the ball back at their own 42 and score in 6 plays. On none of which do I think Kanell was playing defense.

    So yeah, I count the game.

    But if we are discounting the game because of Danny Kanell do we also discount this year’s game because the Pats were missing their #1 RB (C.Dillon), #2 RB (K.Faulk), All-Pro DE (R.Seymour), S (R. Harrison), LT (M.Light), and CB (T.Poole)?
  6. marty

    marty Rookie

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    I'll take the "Monk" over "Manson eyes" any day of the week and twice on Sundays, oops I mean Sat!
  7. kurtinelson

    kurtinelson Rookie

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    #37 Jersey

    One major knock against Shanahan is how poorly his team has played in the playoffs during that time period.
  8. Patsguy05

    Patsguy05 Rookie

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    Any time a team takes the field during the regular season, it counts. What kind of fan are you. "oh my starting quarterback is injured so I think that ummm....this game doesn't really count" What a stupid statement. I guess thats what sets us apart. We have never made any excuses this year through all the injuries. Good teams don't make excuses, they make changes. We have continued to make changes throughout a mediocre season and here we are entering the second game of the playoffs!
  9. Bronco Freak

    Bronco Freak Banned

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    Last edited: Jan 10, 2006
  10. sarge

    sarge Rookie

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    Considering the Pats played that game without Richard Seymour, Ted Washington, Ted Johnson, and David Patten, yes!

    Considering how badly Jake was playing back then, you may have lost by more.

    It wasn't like he was Tom Brady!
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2006
  11. Triumph

    Triumph Rookie

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    #32 Jersey

    One fact is that Denver was 13 - 3 with a bye and homefield twice before in 84 and 96. They lost both games.

    We are coming up on the 20th anniversary of the 96 game. Will history repeat itself??
  12. maxhagen

    maxhagen Rookie

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    Well... you are counting a game without Seymour, Bruschi, Dillon, Faulk, Harrison, etc... as evidence of the superiority of the donkeys..

    You are a delusional uneducated donkey fan and you will fall as hard as the Dolts fans last year.
  13. Bronco Freak

    Bronco Freak Banned

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    Fair enough, did they have the ball in thier hand with the game on the line? I could care less, that game had Portis in it, its old history. Two totally different teams. That game is totally irrellevant personell wise, its only worth noting in that Shanny out gameplanned Billichick, and Billichick made some great strategic decisions, oh, and Deltha Oneal is a moron and Danny Kannell sucks too.
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2006
  14. sarge

    sarge Rookie

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    And we have a winner!
  15. bucky

    bucky Rookie

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    Is that the same Deltha Oneal who returned a Punt for a TD in that game? On that ridiculously bad punt by Ken Walrter? Oh, wait, Ken Walter isn't on our team any more. So you can forget about returning a punt for a TD also.
  16. FSUPatsFan

    FSUPatsFan Rookie

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  17. CheerforTom

    CheerforTom Rookie

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  18. PATSNUTme

    PATSNUTme Paranoid Homer Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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  19. skri65

    skri65 Rookie

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  20. emoney_33

    emoney_33 Rookie

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    Out of the head to head matchups since 2001, hasn't Seymour only played in one of those? This sat. will be 2
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