For those of you who think that Savage knows more than BB/Pioli

[FreeTedWilliams]

Check out their collective draft history. Now who do you think is a better judge of talent?

Cleveland's 1st rd picks:

2005 3(3) BRAYLON EDWARDS WR MICHIGAN
2004 6(6) KELLEN WINSLOW TE MIAMI (FLA.)
2003 21(21) JEFF FAINE C NOTRE DAME
2002 16(16) WILLIAM GREEN RB BOSTON COLLEGE
2001 3(3) GERARD WARREN DT FLORIDA
2000 1(1) COURTNEY BROWN DE PENN STATE
1999 1(1) TIM COUCH QB KENTUCKY
1995 30(30) CRAIG POWELL LB OHIO STATE
1994 9(9) ANTONIO LANGHAM DB ALABAMA
1994 29(29) DERRICK ALEXANDER WR MICHIGAN
1993 14(14) STEVE EVERITT C MICHIGAN
1992 9(9) TOMMY VARDELL RB STANFORD
1991 2(2) ERIC TURNER DB UCLA


The Pat's (note discount the Grier years)
2005 32(32) LOGAN MANKINS OG FRESNO STATE
2004 21(21) VINCE WILFORK DT MIAMI (FLA.)
2004 32(32) BENJAMIN WATSON TE GEORGIA
2003 13(13) TY WARREN DT TEXAS A&M
2002 21(21) DANIEL GRAHAM TE COLORADO
2001 6(6) RICHARD SEYMOUR DL GEORGIA
1999 17(17) DAMIEN WOODY C BOSTON COLLEGE
1999 28(28) ANDY KATZENMOYER LB OHIO STATE
1998 18(18) ROBERT EDWARDS RB GEORGIA
1998 22(22) TEBUCKY JONES DB SYRACUSE
1997 29(29) CHRIS CANTY DB KANSAS STATE
1996 7(7) TERRY GLENN WR OHIO STATE
1995 23(23) TY LAW DB MICHIGAN
1994 4(4) WILLIE MCGINEST DE USC
1993 1(1) DREW BLEDSOE QB WASHINGTON STATE
1992 13(13) EUGENE CHUNG OT VIRGINIA TECH
1991 11(11) PAT HARLOW OT USC
1991 14(14) LEONARD RUSSELL RB ARIZONA STATE


During the BB years the Pats have averaged the 20th pick in the draft, while the Browns have averaged the 7th pick in the draft. Given that their isn't a single player that Cleveland drafted that you would trade today for any of the Pats BB years picks.

So just maybe BB/Pioli know a little bit more than Savage and his Cleveland guys.

 

[BelichickFan]

2005 was Savage's first year in Cleveland. And the '91 to '95 years were when Belichick was there.

I agree with your concept that Belichick knows more what he's doing than Savage does, but it's argued very poorly

 

[shatch62]

Savage was in Baltimore!!!

Check out their collective draft history. Now who do you think is a better judge of talent?

Cleveland's 1st rd picks:

2005 3(3) BRAYLON EDWARDS WR MICHIGAN
2004 6(6) KELLEN WINSLOW TE MIAMI (FLA.)
2003 21(21) JEFF FAINE C NOTRE DAME
2002 16(16) WILLIAM GREEN RB BOSTON COLLEGE
2001 3(3) GERARD WARREN DT FLORIDA
2000 1(1) COURTNEY BROWN DE PENN STATE
1999 1(1) TIM COUCH QB KENTUCKY
1995 30(30) CRAIG POWELL LB OHIO STATE
1994 9(9) ANTONIO LANGHAM DB ALABAMA
1994 29(29) DERRICK ALEXANDER WR MICHIGAN
1993 14(14) STEVE EVERITT C MICHIGAN
1992 9(9) TOMMY VARDELL RB STANFORD
1991 2(2) ERIC TURNER DB UCLA


The Pat's (note discount the Grier years)
2005 32(32) LOGAN MANKINS OG FRESNO STATE
2004 21(21) VINCE WILFORK DT MIAMI (FLA.)
2004 32(32) BENJAMIN WATSON TE GEORGIA
2003 13(13) TY WARREN DT TEXAS A&M
2002 21(21) DANIEL GRAHAM TE COLORADO
2001 6(6) RICHARD SEYMOUR DL GEORGIA
1999 17(17) DAMIEN WOODY C BOSTON COLLEGE
1999 28(28) ANDY KATZENMOYER LB OHIO STATE
1998 18(18) ROBERT EDWARDS RB GEORGIA
1998 22(22) TEBUCKY JONES DB SYRACUSE
1997 29(29) CHRIS CANTY DB KANSAS STATE
1996 7(7) TERRY GLENN WR OHIO STATE
1995 23(23) TY LAW DB MICHIGAN
1994 4(4) WILLIE MCGINEST DE USC
1993 1(1) DREW BLEDSOE QB WASHINGTON STATE
1992 13(13) EUGENE CHUNG OT VIRGINIA TECH
1991 11(11) PAT HARLOW OT USC
1991 14(14) LEONARD RUSSELL RB ARIZONA STATE


During the BB years the Pats have averaged the 20th pick in the draft, while the Browns have averaged the 7th pick in the draft. Given that their isn't a single player that Cleveland drafted that you would trade today for any of the Pats BB years picks.

So just maybe BB/Pioli know a little bit more than Savage and his Cleveland guys.

Couple of huge problems with your comparison:
1) Savage was in Baltimore until a year or so ago. He was not responsible for WINSLOW, JEFF FAINE, WILLIAM GREEN, GERARD WARREN, COURTNEY BROWN, or TIM COUCH. Those picks were made by Butch Davis and Chris Palmer. In Baltimore Savage was helping Ozzie Newsome pick 10 Pro Bowl players: tackle Jonathan Ogden, linebacker Ray Lewis, receiver Jermaine Lewis, linebacker Peter Boulware, defensive back Chris McAlister, running back Jamal Lewis, linebacker Adalius Thomas, tight end Todd Heap, safety Ed Reed and linebacker Terrell Suggs.
2) The Cleveland picks that were made from 1991-1995 were Bill Belichick picks. He was the coach then.

 

[DaBruinz]

Couple of huge problems with your comparison:
1) Savage was in Baltimore until a year or so ago. He was not responsible for WINSLOW, JEFF FAINE, WILLIAM GREEN, GERARD WARREN, COURTNEY BROWN, or TIM COUCH. Those picks were made by Butch Davis and Chris Palmer. In Baltimore Savage was helping Ozzie Newsome pick 10 Pro Bowl players: tackle Jonathan Ogden, linebacker Ray Lewis, receiver Jermaine Lewis, linebacker Peter Boulware, defensive back Chris McAlister, running back Jamal Lewis, linebacker Adalius Thomas, tight end Todd Heap, safety Ed Reed and linebacker Terrell Suggs.
2) The Cleveland picks that were made from 1991-1995 were Bill Belichick picks. He was the coach then.

I could be wrong, but I don't believe Savage was the GM for all of the Baltimore picks you mentioned. Also, I don't believe that BB was the one buying the groceries in Cleveland. I believe that he might have had a say, but I don't believe he had the final say.

 

[BelichickFan]

I could be wrong, but I don't believe Savage was the GM for all of the Baltimore picks you mentioned. Also, I don't believe that BB was the one buying the groceries in Cleveland. I believe that he might have had a say, but I don't believe he had the final say.

1) Yes, Ozzie Newsome was the GM in Baltimore for all the picks. Savage was a top talent evaluator but not the decision maker.

2) I wish I could remember how much control Belichick had. But I don't think it was absolute. The #1 picks they made weren't as bad as they seem but they weren't great. I don't feel like going through them one by one. I do remember, though, a story when Belichick went to UCLA to work out Eric Turner and made Turner hit him (Belichick) so Belichick could feel how much pop his hits had. I guess he had enough . . . although that was a brutally weak draft when Turner went #2.