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For The Record, Surge Is Working, But Will Truth See Light Of Day?

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by patsfan13, Jul 28, 2007.

  1. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    A very good editorial from Investors Business Daily.

    http://www.ibdeditorials.com/IBDArticles.aspx?id=270423956263436

     
  2. italia44

    italia44 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Thank you.....what a great find this is.

    The democrat party is so desperate to have Iran,N Korea and the muslim extremists succeed before the 2008 election,that they are blinded to the fact that the Bush administration and the US military are on the path to real success in the war on terror.
     
  3. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    That's right. And not only is the surge working, but morale is higher than it's ever been, results are coming in regularly, Osama is reduced to a skulking ghost waiting for a Predator to find him and send him on his way, and his list of "successors" shrinks daily, both voluntarily as well as involuntarily.

    And to top it all off: North Korea has abandoned its nuclear weapons program and will seek assistance from the U.S. to build its nuclear power system, not from crazy Ivans.

    The media hates this news, and they won't tell it, but soon enough there will be no way they can't cover it properly.

    Left-wing ideologues dominating the press truly drags the whole world down.


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  4. Seymour93

    Seymour93 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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  5. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    Yeah, the Left has never done anything to warrant any concern whatsoever. Fidel, Pol Pot, Kim Il Sung, Daniel Ortega, Mao, Stalin, etc.... they were all just "good ol' boys."




    :rofl:



    :singing:



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  6. Seymour93

    Seymour93 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    And the Right has that excellent track record.... Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Pinochet, Marcos, Nixon, George W. Bush :rolleyes:
     
  7. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    Fog, if you want to have any reasonable, respectable debate ever again here, please refrain from comparing the American liberal contingent with that list of names... They are entirely different "leftists" .... No, I don't need to remind you that you cried and had a hissy fit when people compared american pervasive corporativism to fascim, and yet here you are doing essentially the same thing... Practice what you preach, and we'll respect your wishes... Otherwise, if you refuse and insist on grouping us with those individuals, you won't like my next thread very much at all ...
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2007
  8. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    anyhow... back on topic... that is a glowing report, and i'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt for now as a differing opinion.... but we've heard this kind of spin before by conservative publications... and someone mentioned this guy isn't even in Iraq?????

    well, here's a guy who IS in Diyala Province... let's just say, he sees things rather differently... :

    Baghdad to Kirkuk, bodies show failure of 'surge'

    Tuesday, July 17, 2007
    By Patrick ****burn in Khanaquin, Diyala Province, Iraq

    The United States surge, the use of the American troop reinforcements to bring violence in Iraq under control, is bloodily failing across northern Iraq.

    That was proved again yesterday when a suicide bomber detonated a truck packed with explosives in Kirkuk killing at least 85 people and wounding a further 183.

    ...

    The attack is the latest assault by Sunni insurgents on Kurds who claim Kirkuk as their future capital.

    The dispatch of 28,000 extra troops to Iraq starting in January, and the more aggressive deployment of the US army in the country, is not working. At best it is moving violence from one area of Iraq to another. The US is allying itself to local tribes and militias against guerrillas but that is angering the government in Baghdad and deepening the violence.

    In Diyala, a mixed Shia-Sunni-Kurdish province south of Kirkuk and north-east of Baghdad, the US launched an offensive against al-Qa'ida and Sunni insurgent forces three weeks ago. It claimed to have killed many guerrillas and forced others to flee.

    Hamdi Hassan Zubaydi, the Sunni leader of the Iraqi Islamic Party in Diyala, painted a very different picture. He described how some of the Sunni tribesmen had joined US troops to storm al-Qa'ida-held villages and had killed 100 insurgents. But when the US withdrew, al-Qa'ida returned and drove the tribesmen out.

    Mr Zubaydi, who was jailed by Saddam Hussein in the 1980s, quivered with disgust as he explained the bloody complexities of sectarian war in Diyala.

    The tough-looking former teacher in his fifties said 20 Sunni students on a bus had been abducted and he feared they would be killed. He said he knew who had carried out the kidnapping: "It was the emergency police forces led by Captain Abbas Waisi and Lt Zaman Abdul Hamid. I told the American special forces but they have done nothing."

    The truck bomb blasted a 30ft-deep crater in a busy road full of small shops and booths near the ancient citadel of Kirkuk, setting fire to a bus in which the passengers burned to death and burying many others under the rubble. Dozens of cars were set ablaze and their blackened hulks littered the street. Some 25 of the wounded suffered critical injuries and may not live. ​

    I ask... this optimistic strategy of "Clear, Hold, Build," as Condi likes to call it... how does it stop fanatical suicide bombers from fleeing, waiting, returning?...
     
    Last edited: Jul 28, 2007
  9. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    You put Nixon and Bush with those other creeps??!! Says a lot about you.



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  10. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    FYI, Press, when I use "Left" (cap "L") it indicates "hard left", which includes the communist bosses I mentioned, as well as their willing accomplices moled in the free world; and finally, those whom the communists themselves term as their "useful idiots", those who hold them up in polite society as "beacons of hope".

    If you don't consider yourself in any of these three categories, I am not referring to you when I say "Left".

    If you DO consider yourself among them, then it is what it is. Nothing more, nothing less.


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  11. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Since YOU and others HATE Bush you wil not accept any good news for the American military.

    However Michael Yon is saying the same things and he has spent more time in the field with the troops than ANY other reporter.

    http://www.michaelyon-online.com/
     
  12. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    So, yet another of the three ****burn (C-o-c-k-b-u-r-n) brothers gets their anti-American sentiments into print, and of course our dear Press laps it up like mother's milk. Anything can get published in a free speech society, one must conclude. (Just remember that when these same left-wing types want to restrict your freedom of speech, a la the "Fairness Doctrine".)

    Readers need to be aware that the eldest brother, Alexander, assumed trend-setter for the two other brothers, is among the most extreme anti-American writers to ever be published in the free world. Even leftish Wikipedia says of him:

    Alexander Claud ****burn (pronounced [ˈkəʊbɜːn], "co-burn"), born June 6, 1941, is a self-described radical Irish journalist who has lived and worked in the United States since 1973. Together with Jeffrey St. Clair he edits the political newsletter CounterPunch. He also writes the "Beat the Devil" column for The Nation and a weekly syndicated column for the Los Angeles Times. ****burn was also a regular contributor to the Anderson Valley Advertiser.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_****burn

    This little Wiki blurb *somehow* forgets to add what it *does* say about brother Andrew:

    Andrew ****burn (pronounced kōbɜn) is an Irish journalist who has lived in the United States for many years.

    Born in London in 1947, ****burn grew up in County Cork, Ireland. His father was the well-known [highlight] socialist author [/highlight] and journalist Claud ****burn. Andrew ****burn was educated at Glenalmond College, Perthshire, and Worcester College, Oxford.

    ****burn has written about the Middle East for the New York Review of Books and co-produced the 1991 PBS documentary on Iraq titled The War We Left Behind. He lives in Washington, D.C. with his wife, Leslie ****burn, a journalist and film producer with whom he has co-authored several books. He is also a regular contributing author for National Geographic and "CounterPunch".

    ****burn has two brothers, Alexander ****burn and Patrick ****burn, who are also journalists. He married Leslie Redlich and together they have three children, Chloe Frances ****burn, The O.C. actress Olivia Wilde, and Charles Philip ****burn.

    ****burn's most recent book is Rumsfeld: His Rise, Fall, and Catastrophic Legacy. In the New York Times, reviewer Jacob Heilbrunn called it "perceptive and engrossing" and "quite persuasive." ​


    For readers who may be a bit on the young side, when someone is referred to as a "socialist" in the liberal/left press, it means someone who lives in the free world promoting essentially the hard-line communist agenda.

    Walter Duranty, the New York Times reporter of the early 20th century, the reporter who wrote to millions of Americans every day on the front pages of the Times: "Josef Stalin is like a 'Papa' figure to the soviet peoples (thus, 'Papa Joe'). He is loved and revered by all." Duranty spent some years in the Soviet Union of the late 20s and 30s. He even talked about the "7 million Ukrainians, mostly peasants, killed by Stalin", yet continued to glow on Stalin as if he were the messiah.

    http://www.ukrweekly.com/Archive/2003/090312.shtml

    The three ****burns boys essentially follow the Duranty school of pseudo-journalism, as they are first and foremost fiercely anti-American ideologues.

    Anyone who deeply resents America will probably enjoy the ****burns.


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  13. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The surge is working in a limited way. Many times in the past, people like Kerry and McCain called for more troops, but it took Bush and his sycophants until 2007 and the threat of Democratic Congress taking control of the situation for Bush to change his strategy.

    What remains to be seen is whether the surge can do more than reduce violence temporarily. The central government of Iraq is pathetically weak and as the US makes local deals to aid the surge, the central government gets weaker. This could put into place more of the pieces for a civil war. In addition, as I think Patreaus himself pointed out, the surge could simply make the enemy go into hiding and wait out the surge before returning full force. We obviously won't know that until later on.

    Also, let's not forget all our government's lies about the WOT (Tillman, Lynch, Mission Accomplishment, WMDs, uranium, Al Qaeda in Iraq, crowds waving the flag and toppling the statue of Saddam, other claims of progress, etc.). I am not one to trust the government so blindly as the right wing seems to do.
     
  14. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    I asked this question of PonyExpress in another thread and didn't get an answer, so perhaps someone can answer it here:

    Could you please share your vision of what "victory" would be in Iraq?
     
  15. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I answered it in the other thread.
    :bricks:
     
  16. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    I hate Bush, it's true...I'll admit it - No need to get into the particulars.

    I am very glad the "surge" is working. It's great, really. At least for now, we should be happy that US troop casualties are down and attacks are down. I think that means we are closer to getting the troops home and less people are getting hurt. That's, I guess, the best we should hope for. I'm still for bringing them home right now. We've done enough. No more US blood for Iraqis.

    I don't think anyone believes that Bush deserves any credit for how "well" things are going. It's as if we should give credit to a head coach of a 1-12 team who has been calling bad plays the entire game, his team is down 42-3 in the middle of the fourth quarter, and his team recovers a fumble. He still needs to be fired. Only time will tell if this matters or not, and I and most Americans (not that either matters) want the troops to come home now. I have all the confidence in the world in the troops on the ground, but very little confidence in the Brass and zero in Bush.
     
  17. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I find it harder each day to defend Bush, it seems as though he is hell bent on self destruction, he seems to enjoy making people hate him.

    He was right to invade Iraq, the democrats agreed, Kerry said "if elected President he would go to war with Iraq" Kennedy agreed, Hillary agreed.
    (back stabbers)

    The worst thing I think Bush has done to harm our country is his Illegal Alien Policy.

    Day after day you will hear the Bush Hating Left Wing Democrats crucify him on anything and everything from dawn till dusk but you will NEVER hear them say one bad thing against him when it comes to millions of Criminal Aliens Illegally coming into our country and then expecting us to support them.

    Why isn't the NY Times all over him for this?
    :bricks:
    _____________________________________________________
    Bring The Troops Home----Leave The Ungrateful Smelly Bastards To Their Slaughter---They Love To Kill---Leave Them To Kill Each Other--
     
  18. PF1996

    PF1996 Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Great analogy which captures perfectly the essence of this situation. I hope the "surge" works, particularly for that group which no one seems to care much about anymore and who are the real victims of Bush's arrogant incompetence -the Iraqis. However, the hoped for success of the "surge" will never alter the consequences of Bush's unnecessary and completely poorly planned war - the thousands of dead and severely injured solidiers and Iraqis. So the pro-war righties can bleat all they want about the "success of the surge" but it's a little too late in the game to hide the fact that a "surge" more than 4 freaking years after the start of this "war" was needed only because of the preventable missteps made by the Bush administration. It's too bad that the Democrats don't have the guts or the propaganda machine to "fire" the buffoon and his "assistant" before the end of his term.
     
  19. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Kirkuk is in the process of a voting for a refferendum that will decide whether or not it becomes part of Kurdistan, or remains as it is today. There is a very mixed ethnic make up in Kirkuk and it's surrounding districts, and that's why there is so much tension there. Each district will vote on joining Kurdistan or not. The different factions, or the extremists of each, of trying to use violence and chaos to sway voters, or at least scare them from going ot the polls. The first vote is Tuesday 7/31.
     
  20. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    It's doing what it was intended to do, is what I'm reading from most of the sources I cross. There are area's of difficulty, but area's that have truly done a 180 turn. The timing of the surge was done for a number of different reasons, namely, ISF force sizes had begun to reach acceptable functionality, and experience levels, and also because the Army will have to draw down in the coming year. What I find troubling is that some people are refusing to give it the time it needs.
     

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