For everyone that hates the PATS offensive coordinator.

[shatch62]

There has been a lot of talk here about how bad the Pats offensive play calling has been. I think the play calling has been ok as I put more blame on an inconsistent o-line. However you feel about the Pats offensive THANK God that the Pats don’t have the Dolphins offensive coordinator. There game plans are awful. The Dolphins have not been blown out really in any game this year. A few games go away from them at the end – the Pitt game where Culpepper threw the INT returned for a TD late to seal it – but most have been 3 point losses. YET THE TEAM NEVER RUNS RONNIE BROWN!!! I know their o-line was decimated by injuries but their play selection is a joke. Look at this week’s loss. They are playing at home against a bad GB team and they lose 34-24. Going into the game your options are running with Brown or having Harrington throw. I’d try and run it but what do I know. So let’s look at the game. Miami was winning 7-0 after the 1st and 10-6 at the half.

At the half Brown had 11 carries for 37 yards and no TDs. Harrington was 8 of 17 (47%) for 110. He was sacked 2 times, had thrown 1 TD and was picked 2 times. The 2 INTs lead to the 2 FGs by GB – GB’s only points of the first half.

So second half begins and Miami has the ball. First play was a R. Brown run up the middle for 3 yard gain. Next play was C. Woodson intercepting Harrington and returning it 23 yards for a touchdown. After the PAT, GB is up 13-10. Still only a 3 point margin. At this point Harrington has thrown 18 passes, 3 were picked and all 3 INTs lead to GB points. So what does Miami do on their next possession? You guessed it – PASS.
Miami – Ball at their own 20
1st-10, MIA20 14:04 J. Harrington incomplete pass to the right
2nd-10, MIA20 13:59 R. Brown rushed to the right for 5 yard gain
3rd-5, MIA25 13:17 J. Harrington passed to R. McMichael to the left for 8 yard gain
1st-10, MIA33 12:40 J. Harrington incomplete pass to the right
2nd-10, MIA33 12:33 J. Harrington passed to R. McMichael to the right for 6 yard gain
3rd-4, MIA39 11:55 J. Harrington incomplete pass to the left
4th-4, MIA39 11:37 D. Jones punt. C. Woodson returned punt for 11 yards

1 rushing attempt before they punt but hey, at least Harrington didn’t throw a pick.

GB scores a TD on the next possession to make it a 20-10 game but still there is almost 24 minutes left in the game. PLENTY of time. Next possession by Miami began in great field position at the 39 yard line. Play selection:
1st-10, MIA39 8:43 J. Harrington passed to W. Welker to the left for 1 yard gain
2nd-9, MIA40 8:13 J. Harrington passed to M. Booker to the left for 16 yard gain
1st-10, GB44 7:40 J. Harrington passed to R. Brown to the right for 17 yard gain
1st-10, GB27 7:23 S. Morris rushed up the middle for 5 yard gain
2nd-5, GB22 6:44 J. Harrington incomplete pass to the left
3rd-5, GB22 6:39 J. Harrington incomplete pass to the left
4th-5, GB22 6:30 O. Mare kicked a 40-yard field goal

By far Harrington’s best stretch but come on, it is F-ing Joey Harrington. Why are they not running AT ALL. At least it is a 1 score game again.

Miami holds GB and forces a punt and gets great field possession AGAIN starting at their own 46. Play selection – and I could not make this up if I tried:
1st-10, MIA46 5:30 R. Brown rushed to the left for 9 yard gain
2nd-1, GB45 5:00 J. Harrington passed to M. Booker down the middle for 3 yard gain
1st-10, GB42 4:29 J. Harrington incomplete pass to the right
2nd-10, GB42 4:24 J. Harrington incomplete pass to the left
3rd-10, GB42 4:19 J. Harrington incomplete pass to the right
4th-10, GB42 4:05 D. Jones punt, no return

I think you get the picture. When all was said and done the Dolphins lost by 10 point. Remember, they were winning at the half and were only down 20-13 at the end of the 3rd. Yet somehow here was the run to pass ratio:

17 rushes (1 by Harrington) and 66 passes (62 attempts and 4 sacks).

Think about that. In the third quarter ALONE that run to pass ratio was 5-20 (there was a 6th rush called back on a penalty). So, in a game that Miami was winning or only done by a TD for a 3 quarters, they felt it was better to ride the arm of Harrington than the legs of Brown. After 3 quarters Brown had 15 carries for 59 yards (which is what he ended with for the day) while Harrington was 16-36 .44.4%) for 187 yards and 3 INTS.

Did Ronnie Brown sleep with Saban’s wife or something? Anyone want to trade offensive coordinators? Anyone

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

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[Kdo5]

Word.

Mularkey blows.

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I dont think anyone "hates" the Pats offensive coordinator, including me. However, I do believe that several people, including myself, have questioned his play calling, on occasion...which is not uncommon for fans to do.

If all fans were on the same page all the time, message boards olike these would be boring, and for that matter, probably be non existent.

Bill Belichick made some interesting comments aftr the team's win yesterday. He said that eventhough they won, they are always striving to do things better, and that they are always working on correcting things to make them even better.

That is no different than the comments I might make about our offensive coordinator, never indicating displeasure with the win, but merely saying that with corrections, adjustments, or more work, the wins might be easier to attain, in some instances, instead of going down to the wire.

And I am sure that is what Belichick means by his comments, which are pretty much the same after every win. He wont name names as to where the work needs to be done, but I am sure, like myself, he is very happy with the win but not ready to say that it cant even be better with more work.

And, therefore, I dont believe that anyone in this forum actually HATES the offensive coordinator.

NEM, the master of understatement. You and Belichick are polar opposites. He could care less about winning big. He prefers to win efficiently and with as few costly mistakes as possible. He's not a risk taker just for the heck of it. He doesn't "try" things in game situations. If they cannot execute it effectively and consistently in practice it ain't gonna show up in game situations. And if he likes a play but he knows due to film study that probably won't work successfully against this weeks opponent, it ain't gonna show up in the weeks game plan.

Belichick certainly wants to see improvement from week to week in all aspects of the game. He often mentions coaching and execution, which frankly is magnanimous of him (a trait his QB also shares). He looks for those improvements first in practice. You on the other hand never attend practice and exempt the players who in your view are always a powerhouse just waiting to be unleashed by the OC you persistently call out regardless of his name.

So there's another difference between you and Bill, he won't name names while you disparage his OC by name, and even call his OC names.

I realize you don't hate the offensive coordinator so much as resent he has the job you believe an intemperate retiree from Arizona has always been more eminantly qualified for. Gotta tell you the truth though NEM, you could never work for BB. The job entails running HIS offense which evolved out of his conservative ball control/exploit the opponent's defensive weakness philosophy as refined over 5 seasons by the first guy who held the job and the QB he had the good fortune to draft.

Plus unlike Ian, BB has all those rules about checking egos at the door and coordinator's not talking to the media or anyone else for that matter, and never tooting your own horn or making foolishly inflamatory bulletin board comments. And we all know how you struggle to play within even the one or two rules Ian tries to institute here...Belichick OC's can't even defend themselves against potentially hurtful criticism from the lunatic fringe that exists in every fan base. You'd last about 5 minutes. Even on your new meds...

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

NEM, the master of understatement. You and Belichick are polar opposites. He could care less about winning big. He prefers to win efficiently and with as few costly mistakes as possible. He's not a risk taker just for the heck of it. He doesn't "try" things in game situations. If they cannot execute it effectively and consistently in practice it ain't gonna show up in game situations. And if he likes a play but he knows due to film study that probably won't work successfully against this weeks opponent, it ain't gonna show up in the weeks game plan.

Belichick certainly wants to see improvement from week to week in all aspects of the game. He often mentions coaching and execution, which frankly is magnanimous of him (a trait his QB also shares). He looks for those improvements first in practice. You on the other hand never attend practice and exempt the players who in your view are always a powerhouse just waiting to be unleashed by the OC you persistently call out regardless of his name.

So there's another difference between you and Bill, he won't name names while you disparage his OC by name, and even call his OC names.

I realize you don't hate the offensive coordinator so much as resent he has the job you believe an intemperate retiree from Arizona has always been more eminantly qualified for. Gotta tell you the truth though NEM, you could never work for BB. The job entails running HIS offense which evolved out of his conservative ball control/exploit the opponent's defensive weakness philosophy as refined over 5 seasons by the first guy who held the job and the QB he had the good fortune to draft.

Plus unlike Ian, BB has all those rules about checking egos at the door and coordinator's not talking to the media or anyone else for that matter, and never tooting your own horn or making foolishly inflamatory bulletin board comments. And we all know how you struggle to play within even the one or two rules Ian tries to institute here...Belichick OC's can't even defend themselves against potentially hurtful criticism from the lunatic fringe that exists in every fan base. You'd last about 5 minutes. Even on your new meds...

Bump

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[Flying Fungi]

dementia praecox as evidenced in internet forum scribblings

NEM doesn't dislike the OC...he just doesn't like him...

 

[PatsSteve1]

Bill Belichick made some interesting comments aftr the team's win yesterday. He said that even though they won, they are always striving to do things better, and that they are always working on correcting things to make them even better.

* Nem, BB says that after every game they win. Some good things, some things we need to do better. I bet if you looked up his post game PC's, he says it every game.

 

[FinNasty23]

There has been a lot of talk here about how bad the Pats offensive play calling has been. I think the play calling has been ok as I put more blame on an inconsistent o-line. However you feel about the Pats offensive THANK God that the Pats don’t have the Dolphins offensive coordinator. There game plans are awful. The Dolphins have not been blown out really in any game this year. A few games go away from them at the end – the Pitt game where Culpepper threw the INT returned for a TD late to seal it – but most have been 3 point losses. YET THE TEAM NEVER RUNS RONNIE BROWN!!! I know their o-line was decimated by injuries but their play selection is a joke. Look at this week’s loss. They are playing at home against a bad GB team and they lose 34-24. Going into the game your options are running with Brown or having Harrington throw. I’d try and run it but what do I know. So let’s look at the game. Miami was winning 7-0 after the 1st and 10-6 at the half.

At the half Brown had 11 carries for 37 yards and no TDs. Harrington was 8 of 17 (47%) for 110. He was sacked 2 times, had thrown 1 TD and was picked 2 times. The 2 INTs lead to the 2 FGs by GB – GB’s only points of the first half.

So second half begins and Miami has the ball. First play was a R. Brown run up the middle for 3 yard gain. Next play was C. Woodson intercepting Harrington and returning it 23 yards for a touchdown. After the PAT, GB is up 13-10. Still only a 3 point margin. At this point Harrington has thrown 18 passes, 3 were picked and all 3 INTs lead to GB points. So what does Miami do on their next possession? You guessed it – PASS.
Miami – Ball at their own 20
1st-10, MIA20 14:04 J. Harrington incomplete pass to the right
2nd-10, MIA20 13:59 R. Brown rushed to the right for 5 yard gain
3rd-5, MIA25 13:17 J. Harrington passed to R. McMichael to the left for 8 yard gain
1st-10, MIA33 12:40 J. Harrington incomplete pass to the right
2nd-10, MIA33 12:33 J. Harrington passed to R. McMichael to the right for 6 yard gain
3rd-4, MIA39 11:55 J. Harrington incomplete pass to the left
4th-4, MIA39 11:37 D. Jones punt. C. Woodson returned punt for 11 yards

1 rushing attempt before they punt but hey, at least Harrington didn’t throw a pick.

GB scores a TD on the next possession to make it a 20-10 game but still there is almost 24 minutes left in the game. PLENTY of time. Next possession by Miami began in great field position at the 39 yard line. Play selection:
1st-10, MIA39 8:43 J. Harrington passed to W. Welker to the left for 1 yard gain
2nd-9, MIA40 8:13 J. Harrington passed to M. Booker to the left for 16 yard gain
1st-10, GB44 7:40 J. Harrington passed to R. Brown to the right for 17 yard gain
1st-10, GB27 7:23 S. Morris rushed up the middle for 5 yard gain
2nd-5, GB22 6:44 J. Harrington incomplete pass to the left
3rd-5, GB22 6:39 J. Harrington incomplete pass to the left
4th-5, GB22 6:30 O. Mare kicked a 40-yard field goal

By far Harrington’s best stretch but come on, it is F-ing Joey Harrington. Why are they not running AT ALL. At least it is a 1 score game again.

Miami holds GB and forces a punt and gets great field possession AGAIN starting at their own 46. Play selection – and I could not make this up if I tried:
1st-10, MIA46 5:30 R. Brown rushed to the left for 9 yard gain
2nd-1, GB45 5:00 J. Harrington passed to M. Booker down the middle for 3 yard gain
1st-10, GB42 4:29 J. Harrington incomplete pass to the right
2nd-10, GB42 4:24 J. Harrington incomplete pass to the left
3rd-10, GB42 4:19 J. Harrington incomplete pass to the right
4th-10, GB42 4:05 D. Jones punt, no return

I think you get the picture. When all was said and done the Dolphins lost by 10 point. Remember, they were winning at the half and were only down 20-13 at the end of the 3rd. Yet somehow here was the run to pass ratio:

17 rushes (1 by Harrington) and 66 passes (62 attempts and 4 sacks).

Think about that. In the third quarter ALONE that run to pass ratio was 5-20 (there was a 6th rush called back on a penalty). So, in a game that Miami was winning or only done by a TD for a 3 quarters, they felt it was better to ride the arm of Harrington than the legs of Brown. After 3 quarters Brown had 15 carries for 59 yards (which is what he ended with for the day) while Harrington was 16-36 .44.4%) for 187 yards and 3 INTS.

Did Ronnie Brown sleep with Saban’s wife or something? Anyone want to trade offensive coordinators? Anyone

How freakin pathetic is this?!?!?! Our offense is absolutly sickening to watch as a Fin fan. Mularkey is easily the worst offensive cordinator in the league and is destroying our team.

We cant put points on the board... and then our defense gives up points at the end of the game because they are exausted... since our offense cant sustain any drives.

He is horrible...

 

[Flying Fungi]

Again, you are having a problem understanding. In fact, I dont even know him. Do you?

oh, i understand all to well. it is apparent to even the most casual observer that you like to obfusc your views so as to never be wrong. in one moment you are claiming an equal expertise and like-mindedness with the head coach of an NFL franchise. in the next moment you are denying your claim as 'misinterpreted by the haters' or in other cases as having never been stated by you at all. and i am well aware that your defense to this post will be somewhere between 'prove it' and that 'i am a 'hater'.

so, yes, you have a right to question the management decisions of the team. but in doing so publicly, you open yourself up to the ridicule that you face. further, you have been repeating the same rants here for years and through numerous bannings and reinstatements--is it validation you seek? is there some sort of meritorious response for making 16,000+ posts that we are forgetting to offer?

i just don't comprehend your motive as anything but self-serving attention-whoring. i expected better from you, but, shame on me.

 

[FloridaPatsFan]

If someone were to read a lot of our threads who was a non-Patriot fan, casual observer or non-biased in his opinion but had knowledge of the game of football, I would be curious to hear what opinion they would have of McDaniels playcalling would be.

Clearly, we are not developing our identity on the field as fast as I would like. It would seem that we have the talent and weapons to be one of the top offenses in the league, yet we look completely beffudled out there at times. Sometimes we look like we are OK, but often times, we are not stopped by good defenses or great defensive plays, but simply by our own inability to to create a rhythm and/or momentum for big plays.

I would say that McDaniels is doing OK but if you were to grade him fairly, would you give him anything better than a C? I know Charlie Weis is long gone, but I think if he were here, with these offensive players, he would be slobbering all over himself with shameless glee.

I would bet my house that if you took a opinion poll of head coaches around the league of how the offense is doing here, the majority answer would be, "It's not what it should be"

Some of the blame can fall on Brady. He's has not been at his best so far this year, but some of the blame for why we have not performed at a level most would expect from us is because of the OC.

I'm hoping that we will see our offense perform at the level it should be performing (one of the NFL's best) soon.

 

[Brownfan80]

Exactly. And thats what I say after the wins. There are things, mostly in the offensive play calling, that we need to do better.

So the defense, even in the face of some bad calls/bad execution but still has success (top 10 ppg), is free of your wrath. But an offense, even in the face of 80% turnover at WR and some bad calls/bad execution but still has success (top 10 ppg), is not?

The more I read your weirdly Offense-related rants the more I suspect that your hatred of all offensive-minded-authority-figures must stem from some childhood event. Maybe you were benched by your offensive coach for being too chatty. Maybe you questioned his calls too much so he put you IR.

I don't know, but there's certainly something weird going on with you and hating on the offense. The defense is left alone even though it has breakdowns, but the offense is dragged through the dirt at any given chance even though the bigger picture says success is being had.

Whack-Oh.

 

[Brownfan80]

What's the title of this thread? You are letting your HATRED interfere with your intelligence.

I don't hate you. And the originating post is marking that we should appreciate our OC more. Yet in this thread you're still defending your stance that you think the OC could be doing better.

My question is valid: Neither our offense or our defense is ever perfect. And they almost always work together to find a way to win (28 points scored against Buf, 2 rushing, 2 passing), and yet your vitriol is aimed at the offense 99% of the time.

I'm just asking you why that is?

 

[emoney_33]

Hey NEM, instead of pretending that you've only talked about the OC in this thread why not answer bf80's question on why you attack the offense/OC all over this board but never the defense. Geez

 

[BelichickFan]

I don't know why people bother with NEM and his OC fetish anymore. He's hated every OC we've had since Ray Perkins - and probably before that. In that time, we've won 3 Super Bowls. Draw your own conclusion.

 

[Brownfan80]

The win against Buffalo was a good example. In the second quarter, when it still was a contest, the defense did a remarkable job and the offense had THREE opportunities to put the game on ice, for all intents and purposes, but did NOTHING.

Fortunately, our defense continued playing well and the offense did pick up the attack in the 2nd half...but, as I have said, one, or two, mistakes by us and the game could have been a totally different story. We had the opportunity , on offense, inthe 2nd quarter, given to us by the defense, and didnt take advantage of it.

And, quite frankly,this has occured in too many instances. Hopefully we are now onthe right offensive track with many of the pieces inplace.

Whine whine whine. We didn't put the game away in the second quarter?? How many games are put away in the second quarter? Arizona can attest to the fact that no margin at halftime is enough to win by the final gun.

What I saw was a defensive struggle that our offense was winning. Did the Buffalo D rise up before the half and try to give their offense a chance? Yes. But did it work? No. Our offense scored 28 by the final gun, and the Bills scored 6. That's a 22 point victory. Were they up by 22 at the half? No.

Last week you complained because the games were too close by the final gun. Now you're complaining because it was too close at HALFTIME? No one wins a game at halftime. We won by 22. Judging by this new spin on your own forumula you're a whiner looking for a reason to complain. Not that it's a shock, at all.

We're winning with team football, this is a good thing, not a bad one.

We had 11 drives and scored TDs on four of them. We scored 28 in a game where 7 would have won. Why are you chapped about the three drives in the second quarter?

 

[Garbanza]

I think McDaniels is mediocre at best. I question a lot of his play calling. Wrong play at the wrong time. If I see another Jackson reverse/end 'round I'll scream. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But that is one "trick" play that has become very predictable. He's not that creative. I'll chalk it up to inexperience. He is getting better. Time will tell if he really has what it takes to become "good."

 

[emoney_33]

I think McDaniels is mediocre at best. I question a lot of his play calling. Wrong play at the wrong time. If I see another Jackson reverse/end 'round I'll scream. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. But that is one "trick" play that has become very predictable. He's not that creative. I'll chalk it up to inexperience. He is getting better. Time will tell if he really has what it takes to become "good."

There's a difference between bad play call and bad execution. The jackson reverse that got stuffed was a FAKE. It was set up by the previous one that Jackson ran for a 1st. Now if the line actually BLOCKED on that play, maybe Brady throws a long TD and you aren't blaming the OC then. But since they didn't block and it was stuffed, you come to the conclusion that it was a bad playcall?


As for NEM, I'm still wondering why he tells everyone not to personally attack him but goes and personally attacks anyone and everyone who disagrees with him.

And also how he always complains they McDaniels never adjusts yet only complains about the 2nd quarter, not how we came out fine in the 2nd HALF... no adjustments? Or how about the great gameplan that brought up an opening drive TD that was a thing of BEAUTY?

 

[BelichickFan]

Without trying to sound too simplistic, I think it's remarkable how much hate and discontent is thrown at McDaniels when the Patriots are 10th in the league in pts scored despite losing their entire group of WR except Troy Brown. Think how McDaniels' offense might score when the QB and WR actually know each other.

 

[BelichickFan]

The distribution of those points is not good.

90 of them in three road games that have been won decisively.

BTW, we only have 46 points scored at home in 3 games, 90 on the road in 3 games.

Maybe that's because we play on a sandlot at home which makes it tough on both offenses.

 

[Brownfan80]

You have to take the time of the game when this occured, and the score at the time.

At that time, the game was still in contention. In that quarter the defense was fantastic and gave our offense three great opportunities to score and put the game out of reach.

The offesne fell on its face, and the total yardage gained in the 2nd Q was abysmal.

It worked out fine because our defense kept playing stellar and the offense finally picked up the pace.

My point always has been that while we win these games, which is great, we can not, and must not, squander opportunities on offense that have been given to us by the defense.

If we make as much as one mistake, lose the ball, or the defense has some problems, then all of a sudden we see ourselves on the short end of the scoreboard instead of winning the games.

It only takes ONE mistake to turn a game around.

When handed the opporftunities we were handed in that 2nd quarter, we needed to take advantage of them. We got away with the failures, THIS TIME, and on a few other occasions this season...but we need to go for the jugular any time we have the opportunity..

Too many things can happen if yu keep a weaker opponent within striking distance.

Hope yuo get the poin
t I have been trying to make.

I get the point you're trying to make, I just don't think it's valid. We've been around and around this issue. And you deftly ignore the outcome of each game unless it suits your argument.

Anything 'could of' 'should of' 'would of' happen in EVERY single game played each Sunday.

Would it have been nice for the offense to score at least 10 points off of those opportunities? Sure. Was it needed? No.

You always say 'one play could have turned the whole game around, just because it didn't THIS TIME etc etc', but don't you realize you say that every single week?

They weren't within striking distance. They lost by 22. TWENTY TWO. The past 3 weeks the average margin of victory has been 19 points (NINETEEN) and we haven't won by less than ten!

Wake up and smell the dominance.

No team gets 'put away' in the second quarter, NEM, this argument is pointless, and I can't see how you don't realize it. The Patriots defense is affording the offense the room to muck up some (some failed drives, which believe it or not is the NFL standard, not every drive ends in points *gasp*).

The simple fact is that no team scores on every drive of the game. You'll always find something to complain about even when the Pats win by 19 points per game over a span of three weeks. It's tiresome.

We're 5-1 and this team has remembered how to win consistently. I don't remember you complaining this much last season when we were actually struggling to win games.