Football Outsiders on Pats offensive line after week 1 loss at Miami

[primetime]

Under Pressure: Trouble in Foxborough | Football Outsiders

So it wasn't surprising that the Patriots' offensive line was shaky in a surprising loss to the Dolphins. The surprise was where the problems began.

The interior of the Patriots’ line is supposed to be the problem. Rookie Jordan Devey started at one guard spot. Marcus Cannon, who also serves as a backup tackle, started at the other guard spot and Ryan Wendell was at center. And yes, they weren’t very good against the Dolphins.

But it’s the tackles that should be the strength of the Patriots offensive line. Last Sunday Nate Solder and Sebastian Vollmer were problems, not solutions. Of the four sacks the Patriots gave up, Solder was beaten twice and Vollmer was beaten for another.
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They have a few gifs and point out that Solder has been pretty shaky in general.

 

[Spiral]

Interesting on the second gif, Solder and Vollmer got a little too wide and the ends went right by both of them with spin moves. No excuse for Vollmer to be that wide, since Vereen was chipping the DE on the play. Looks like poor technique for both, possibly fatigue-induced.

 

[Triumph]

We saw both offensive tackles collapse and Brady had no place to get away from the rush to buy a little more time.

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/under-pressure/2014/under-pressure-trouble-foxborough

 

[Kontradiction]

I had a little bit of a debate (about as much of a debate as I can have these days since I don't post much outside of work) about Solder's progress in the offseason. The name of the poster with whom I debated escapes me now, but it was more or less about Solder's progression throughout his career. Anyway, I was of the stance that Solder, throughout his career, really hasn't improved against both speed rushers and against power guys (such as 3-4 DE's). That first GIF really shows it. That was about as simple of a speed rush as you can possibly get, but Solder's lateral quickness wasn't enough to seal off the edge. Thus far, my opinion of Nate Solder is that he hasn't earned his draft stock. I think playing next to Mankins since he's been in the league has helped him a boat load and we saw evidence this past Sunday of the amount of assistance it gave him. Hopefully he rebounds, along with the entire OL, starting this week.

 

[randomk1]

If Solder continues to suck then that 2011 draft looks pretty crappy.

 

[hwc]

Here's my question:

The Pats spent the entire preseason working on multiple tight end packages, including using tackles and guards as additional blockers at the tight end position. When they saw that the tackles were getting beaten like drums in the second half, was there no adjustment or group that the coaches could have used to at least pick up a first down before punting again?

This has been, seemingly, a theme for a couple of seasons now. In a game where Brady is getting killed, the Pats don't seem to reach into their bag of "multiple offense" tricks for a solution. Maybe it's because the running game only works off a successful passing game? I'm not sure.

I'm not being a pollyanna. I understand that there are going to be matchup games where every QB in the league is under pressure like Brady was on Sunday.

 

[Wheelman]

 

[hwc]

I got the answer to my question, reading between the lines of an interview on Sirius with the Miami coach. He said something along the lines of, "not that we didn't respect the run, but we really keyed on stopping the screen game and tackling in space."

Collapse the pocket rushing four and take away the screen -- and the Pats longest drive of the second half is 14 yards. They don't have the running game to take what the defense is giving them by rushing from the outside and keying on the screen.

Gronk should be a counter to that approach, as well, but that's clearly a work in progress as he tries to return to game action.

 

[Deus Irae]

I got the answer to my question, reading between the lines of an interview on Sirius with the Miami coach. He said something along the lines of, "not that we didn't respect the run, but we really keyed on stopping the screen game and tackling in space."

Collapse the pocket rushing four and take away the screen -- and the Pats longest drive of the second half if 14 yards. They don't have the running game to take what the defense is giving them by rushing from the outside and keying on the screen.

Gronk should be a counter to that approach, as well, but that's clearly a work in progress as he tries to return to game action.

The Patriots best OL was busy getting injured while playing for another team, instead of playing LG for the Patriots and helping the Patriots running game. The Patriots offensive problems all started there.

 

[hwc]

If replacing one guard with a backup player is the reason the offense had six drives of 2 yards or less in the second half, then the team's offense has serious shortcomings across the board. It's a team game. It's not like they traded Makins and took the field with 10 guys.

We aren't talking about a minor fall-off in production here. The only thing that could have been worse for the Pats in the second half would have been a butt fumble. And, as it was, there were two strip sacks. We are talking monumentally bad offense. It's almost hard to figure how an offense with a Hall of Fame QB could post those numbers for an entire half of football. It pretty much takes all 11 guys stinking up the joint to have a 14 yard drive be the highlight in 7 possessions. The Raiders aren't even that bad.

 

[Deus Irae]

If replacing one guard with a backup player is the reason the offense had six drives of 2 yards or less in the second half, then the team's offense has serious shortcomings across the board. It's a team game. It's not like they traded Makins and took the field with 10 guys.

It wasn't just "replacing one guard". It was replacing their best OL with a bunch of guys who either aren't really capable (Devey) or who were playing positions that they hadn't really been practicing, at all (Cannon).

If you don't think that would have a major impact, we'll just have to disagree. I'll just remind you of what happened in Arizona, back in 2012, and leave it at that.

 

[hwc]

It wasn't just "replacing one guard". It was replacing their best OL with a bunch of guys who either aren't really capable (Devey) or who were playing positions that they hadn't really been practicing, at all (Cannon).

If you don't think that would have a major impact, we'll just have to disagree. I'll just remind you of what happened in Arizona, back in 2012, and leave it at that.

So, you are saying that if Mankins were on the Pats this year and had a season ending injury, you would expect the offense to go scoreless for the season and that would be OK? Until the last garbage time drive against the Dolphins, their best drive of six tries in the second half was 14 yards and one first down. Four punts and two fumbles. They should be able to do that well even if they DID just play 10 guys. There is no way what we saw on Sunday can be blamed on the loss of one player.

 

[Deus Irae]

So, you are saying that if Mankins were on the Pats this year and had a season ending injury, you would expect the offense to go scoreless for the season and that would be OK?

I'm saying that **** happens, and missing your best player on the line makes it worse. I'm saying that it's common sense to look at a game where there were too many line switches, and players out of position, and a LT who played like hot garbage in his first game without the LG beside him, and to see a likely connection.

Until the last garbage time drive against the Dolphins, their best drive of six tries in the second half was 14 yards and one first down. Four punts and two fumbles. They should be able to do that well even if they DID just play 10 guys. There is no way what we saw on Sunday can be blamed on the loss of one player.

First, who's blaming the loss on one player? Defeat started on the O-line, but there was a whole lot more that went into it.
Second, you've got the quote from the Dolphins player, yet you still miss the obvious:

"not that we didn't respect the run," - They knew the run wasn't a threat.
"but we really keyed on stopping the screen game" - They took away the short stuff through pressure and coverage
"and tackling in space." - They focused on keeping the YAC low


You beat a Tom Brady team that doesn't have a significant middle-deep threat, and has a limited (or no) Gronk, by playing getting to him with 4 rushers and stifling the short game. This isn't news.