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Football Outsiders: Mayo's tackles


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we better extend that BEAST ASAP before that BS URFA crap comes into play. I like him sooo much losing him would be awful:mad:

Okay...now you're just trying to bait us...

One last time......

the UFA rules are going back to the same way they have always been since the start of free agency, which is 4 years. It will be the same as every year, all throughout the Super Bowl years etc.

But I do agree with you that I'd like to see him locked up before the last minute, which I am assuming was a 5 yr deal, in which case he is going into his 4th year this season. The problem is that his side has a ton more negotiating leverage right now than they have ever had before, so hopefully the front office can revisit the issue in another yr, but I have a feeling it may be 2 more years when his contract is actually up and he is going to be a free agent.
 
Okay...now you're just trying to bait us...

One last time......

the UFA rules are going back to the same way they have always been since the start of free agency, which is 4 years. It will be the same as every year, all throughout the Super Bowl years etc.

But I do agree with you that I'd like to see him locked up before the last minute, which I am assuming was a 5 yr deal, in which case he is going into his 4th year this season. The problem is that his side has a ton more negotiating leverage right now than they have ever had before, so hopefully the front office can revisit the issue in another yr, but I have a feeling it may be 2 more years when his contract is actually up and he is going to be a free agent.

Mayo was signed to a five-year deal (through 2012).

In all likelihood, he will be extended at the end of the season, unless they need to do so earlier for cap reasons.
 
Tackling Linebackers | ProFootballFocus.com

This seconds Football Outsiders analysis, and for all the hate PFF gets, this is actually an objective analysis.

Look at who's #1...sure, it's a much smaller sample size, but we're clearly looking at the best pair of tackling ILBs in the game, playing behind a top 3 NT.

If it's unreliable when downgrading Patriots players, it's unreliable when hyping them, as well.
 
Funny how simple statistics can be used in so many ways. Mayo covering for rookie Spikes, his lack of blitzing also contribute. But lets concentrate on Greenway for a minute! I believe he is franchized but if those tags dont hold up I'd say he should be our #1 target in Free Agency. His speed and versatility translate well and I'm confident he could be the next Vrabel....being able to play both inside and outside LB. Thoughts?
 
Funny how simple statistics can be used in so many ways. Mayo covering for rookie Spikes, his lack of blitzing also contribute. But lets concentrate on Greenway for a minute! I believe he is franchized but if those tags dont hold up I'd say he should be our #1 target in Free Agency. His speed and versatility translate well and I'm confident he could be the next Vrabel....being able to play both inside and outside LB. Thoughts?

Except, you know, that Greenway is 20 pounds lighter and has never been an edge rusher.
 
If we're gonna throw a boat load of money at someone I'd rather it be Ngata. Him and Vince on the same line is unstoppable. Lineman are always more valuable than linebackers.
 
If we're gonna throw a boat load of money at someone I'd rather it be Ngata. Him and Vince on the same line is unstoppable. Lineman are always more valuable than linebackers.

Let's say that happened. How would you use both of them simultaneously? [I'm not saying you can't; I'm just wondering what you envision.]
 
Let's say that happened. How would you use both of them simultaneously? [I'm not saying you can't; I'm just wondering what you envision.]

By putting them both at the end of the catering line so Kraft doesn't have to call the Red Cross to feed the rest of the team. ;)

I could see them lining up in the middle in sub packages and spelling each other in the 3/4. I don't know how much value there is in throwing that much money around when we have VW though.
 
I have a strong feeling we will look to add a WR in FA before we add a defensive player.
 
Mayo was signed to a five-year deal (through 2012).

In all likelihood, he will be extended at the end of the season, unless they need to do so earlier for cap reasons.

The only reason I am somewhat leery of extending him now is due to him coming off of a NFL leading tackling performance. His worth is leagues apart from what it was, say last year at this time--at least in the eyes of his agent etc. Even in the eyes of the fans and the media too. We all know that he should be extended, and we certainly HOPE that he will be extended..but there weren't too many who had him as one of the top 2-3 ILB's in the game before last yr. Certainly no one was saying last yr that he was 'better than Ray Lewis' as one poster put it. Was this past season a symbol of what's to come from Mayo in the future, thus putting him in an elite status? Or was it just a really great season from an 'above-average' ILB? The financial difference could be significant, and I suppose there's always a gamble when evaluating future talent and extensions, so I don't know what the solution would be at this time....?

If it were up to me (as I always say, we can all thank God it's not), I think I may seriously consider waiting until after this season to get an overall better feel for his worth, and to see if his season is closer to that of this past one, or the 2 previous ones--just for better value, and a larger sample size obviously.

You are quite right that it would not make much sense to wait until after the 5th yr, but I would think that they'd at least wait until after the 4th yr--(which would be when this season is done, as we both pointed out).
 
Let's say that happened. How would you use both of them simultaneously? [I'm not saying you can't; I'm just wondering what you envision.]

Ngata would be the starting RDE. He has played DE much more than Vince has in his career. Ngata is also taller at 6-4 and IMO a pinch more athletic.
 
Let's say that happened. How would you use both of them simultaneously? [I'm not saying you can't; I'm just wondering what you envision.]

Assuming Warren's fully healthy:

Ty Warren, Wilfork, Ngata

Cunningham, Spikes, Mayo, JAG

McCourty, Bodden

Meriweather, Chung


That's a lineup that would be weak on the short outside (OLBs) and up the middle against the pass (ILBs, Chung), but it would be pretty solid overall when compared to other teams. It's not Warren/Wilfork/Seymour in their primes, but it's pretty darned good.
 
The only reason I am somewhat leery of extending him now is due to him coming off of a NFL leading tackling performance. His worth is leagues apart from what it was, say last year at this time--at least in the eyes of his agent etc. Even in the eyes of the fans and the media too. We all know that he should be extended, and we certainly HOPE that he will be extended..but there weren't too many who had him as one of the top 2-3 ILB's in the game before last yr. Certainly no one was saying last yr that he was 'better than Ray Lewis' as one poster put it. Was this past season a symbol of what's to come from Mayo in the future, thus putting him in an elite status? Or was it just a really great season from an 'above-average' ILB? The financial difference could be significant, and I suppose there's always a gamble when evaluating future talent and extensions, so I don't know what the solution would be at this time....?

If it were up to me (as I always say, we can all thank God it's not), I think I may seriously consider waiting until after this season to get an overall better feel for his worth, and to see if his season is closer to that of this past one, or the 2 previous ones--just for better value, and a larger sample size obviously.

You are quite right that it would not make much sense to wait until after the 5th yr, but I would think that they'd at least wait until after the 4th yr--(which would be when this season is done, as we both pointed out).
I think your analysis is from the viewpoint of the fans value of his abilty and worth. I do not think BB, Mayo or Mayo's agent need a taackle statistic to change their opinions of him. I think BBs value of Mayo did not change a great deal in the last 12 months.
 
I think your analysis is from the viewpoint of the fans value of his abilty and worth. I do not think BB, Mayo or Mayo's agent need a taackle statistic to change their opinions of him. I think BBs value of Mayo did not change a great deal in the last 12 months.

This is a very good point Andy, and I certainly agree as a whole. However, I am not necessarily talking about Belichick's view of him, I am talking about his agent's and even possibly his own.

Last yr we were all pretty happy with him, but there were certainly plenty who were questioning if he'd ever be able to take that next step. There were plenty who talked about the fact that he may not be fully living up to that #10 pick overall status. I guess that was somewhat to be expected, as different people will have different expectations of a pick that high. In other words, many of us felt he was SOLID, but there were also many who felt that he was not necessarily a game changer, or 'one of the better ILB's in the game.'

This past year has changed that for sure. He received a lot of media attention, he proved his leadership skills, he proved his stability. I guess those are all great reasons to get him locked up ASAP, and just accept that the cost went higher in the past yr. However, there is always a gamble involved in these matters, and I am simply questioning whether or not this past year was a sign of the future, or just one great season. There are obvious differences between the Mayo of 2009, and 2010. It is very possible that it simply took him a few yrs to learn, master, and feel comfortable with the system. Of course, it's also possible that he just had a really good yr too (not to sound negative, especially considering his overall worth to the team).

I don't think it would be a bad thing to re-sign him now, hell I think we'd all be extremely happy about the present and the future--I just think it would cost a bit more to do so, at this particular point. That's why it's always a gamble I guess. He could have another great season this yr, and that'd put him even higher up on the pay scale. Or he could go back to the 08, 09 version who is solid but not spectacular.

Either way, I think he definitely gets re-signed, and I agree with you that Belichick sees him as a vital piece to the defense's future. I am just questioning the potential value of the future deal, and wondering out loud if it'd be better to do it now, or wait another yr.
He has only played 3 yrs on a 5 yr pact---that is my main pt. I just don't see the Patriot front office rushing to re-sign him before 4 to 4 1/2 yrs of that deal have expired. In other words, we should re-visit this topic in at least another yr.

Just out of curiosity--where would you approximate his value, in terms of 'annual average' just for arguments sake? His original deal was for about 5/20, (4 million per ave) but with escalators he could be closer to almost 5 million (again, average) right now, or at least the last 2 yrs of the deal.

I'd have to approximate his value to be between 6-6 1/2 right now, although it's hard to say. He could be closer to 7-7 1/2 too in some minds.
 
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