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Flag folding at funerals banned.

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by fleabassist1, Oct 30, 2007.

  1. fleabassist1

    fleabassist1 In the Starting Line-Up

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    #12 Jersey

  2. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    Nice...
    So if I read the article correctly, this had to have gone through the White House. I wonder which Jew-hater in the WH let this fly (pun intended):

    ".....Veterans Affairs made the new policy decision last month, after a complaint was filed to the White House, said Rees Lloyd, a member of the American Legion's Memorial Honor Detail for services at Riverside National Cemetery in California.

    "To me, it's a slap in the face for every veteran, every member of the Memorial Honor Detail and every family of the deceased veteran," Lloyd said.

    At issue are secondary meanings attached to the folding of the flag. As the honor guard makes the 13 folds — traditionally representing the original colonies — they recite "the first fold of our flag is a symbol of life, the second fold is a symbol of our belief in the eternal life, etc."

    A complaint about the recitation for the 11th fold — "in the eyes of a Hebrew citizen, represents the lower portion of the seal of King David and King Solomon, and glorifies, in their eyes, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob" — garnered a complaint and prompted the ban."...
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2007
  3. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    What a Banana Republic.

    Lloyd thinks it's a matter of political correctness gone wild. "The entirety of this issue is an absurdity that shows political correctness and secular cleansing run amok," Lloyd said. "This is about families of deceased veterans putting to rest their loved ones. No one should interfere with their choices."

    The 12th fold recitation is geared to Christians, saying the fold "represents an emblem of eternity and glorifies, in their eyes, God the Father, the Son and Holy Ghost." In the Legion's burning ceremony for the dignified disposal of unserviceable flags, a chaplain invokes the name of God with lines like "as they yield their substance to the fire, may your holy light spread over us and bring our hearts renewed devotion to God and country," Joyce said.

    "When we got back from the war, we didn't ask for a whole lot," said Bobby Castillo, 85, a World War II Navy veteran. "We just want to give our veterans the respect they deserve. No one has ever complained to us about it. I just don't understand." Lloyd and Castillo are part of a 16-member detail that have performed military honors at more than 1,400 services. They were preparing to read the flag-folding remarks at the Riverside cemetery when graveyard staff stopped them.

    Charlie Waters, parliamentarian for the American Legion of California, said he's advising memorial honor details to ignore the edict. "This is nuts," Waters told the Press-Enterprise by telephone from Fresno. "There are 26 million veterans in this country and they're not going to take us all to prison."

    Nacincik said that while the flag-folding narrative includes references to God that the government does not endorse, the main reason for the new rules is uniformity. "We are looking at consistency," Nacincik said. "We think that's important."

    Rabbi Yitzhak Miller of Temple Beth El said he understands the ban. "It is a perfect example of government choosing to ignore religion in order to avoid offending some religions," Miller said. "To me, ignoring religion in general is just as problematic as endorsing any one religion."

    Shuler's letter urged Veterans Affairs to change its mind. "Please reconsider the policy and allow the Memorial Honor Detail volunteers to perform the traditional flag-folding recitation if requested by the family of the deceased," he wrote.

    Lloyd said the honor guard would decide whether to defy the ban next Tuesday, when it will serve at more military funerals. "We are going to abide by the wishes of the families," Lloyd said. "Not some bureaucrat in Washington, D.C. Period."


    A-farhging-men! :rocker:
     
  4. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Are they banning the folding of the flag or the recitation of a speech which implies that people of two particular religions are important enough to mention and all others aren't? Something tells me that they aren't gonna get rid of the flag altogether and they sure won't just wad the flag up and toss it to the next of kin.

    Private ceremonies conducted by private citizens are still welcome to do whatever they want right? Even starch the flag heavily and fold it into an Origami duck that bobs its head when you move its tail back and forth right?
     
  5. Miss Gomezcat

    Miss Gomezcat Rookie

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    Unless I'm really missing something, this is the classic example of someone who looks for excuses to take offence, combined with someone whose response to any complaint of predudice from another group is to panic and give them whatever they want.

    If this ceremony gives comfort to the bereved, then they should have it. I'm sure alternative wording could be found for non-christians who wanted the ceremony but not the Christian oriented wording.

    Neither my Jewish half nor my non-Jewish half can see how the wording quoted in the argument are antisemitic.

    The only problem I could see was if this was imposed on the families of non-Christian service men or they were unable to have the flag ceremony without the Christian element.
     
  6. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    The best part is that the person/people who complained, probably had zero connection to any vets.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2007
  7. scout

    scout Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Real World, I think you have BINGO.
     
  8. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Mother Fu#$@%s
     
  9. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Have been with scouting all my life and have been involved with a lot of flag folding, never have heard these words before... interesting, just fold the flag and leave out the words.
     
  10. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This whole thing has been changed and reflected in this fair and balance news story:

    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,306638,00.html

    The Department of Veterans Affairs has clarified its stand on recitations during military funeral flag-folding ceremonies after a memo halting the practice caused a nationwide uproar among veterans.

    “Honoring the burial wishes of veterans is one of the highest commitments for the men and women of VA,” said William F. Tuerk, the VA’s Under Secretary for Memorial Affairs, in a statement released late Tuesday. “A family may request the recitation of words to accompany the meaningful presentation of the American flag as we honor the dedication and sacrifice of their loved ones.”

    A VA official had pulled the recitation of "The Meaning of Each Fold of an Honor Guard Funeral Flag" from burial ceremonies at national cemeteries last month after a complaint was filed with the White House over the recitation accompanying the 11th fold that mentions "the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob."

    Under the VA's clarification, volunteer honor guards "are authorized to read the so-called '13-fold' flag recitation or any comparable script" though "survivors of the deceased need to provide material and request it be read."
     

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