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Fiscal Cliff Poll: Americans Dislike Both Budget Proposals

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by Kid~Brady, Dec 6, 2012.

  1. Kid~Brady

    Kid~Brady In the Starting Line-Up

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    #12 Jersey

    If you had to choose between the two plans for a budget deal to avoid the "fiscal cliff," which would you choose?

    Fiscal Cliff Poll: Americans Dislike Both Budget Proposals
     
  2. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Where is the "Peace Dividend" after the pull out from the Iraq Crusades???

    Military madness has become a behemoth consuming something like 60% of the federal tax dollar, but that is never mentioned.. when it is, hysteria ensues(why does so and so hate the military?)...

    The masters of war continue to do the happy dance, as there are no cuts in store for them..
     
  3. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    But you have to subtract out the responses of 47% of those people, remember... they don't count.

    In all seriousness, the only things in these proposals are things people won't like.

    It's either a vague threat of taxes going up or it's a vague threat that some program they do count on -- e.g., medicare/soc. security -- will be under attack.

    Now, when you get to the actual deal, people can embrace it when the vague threats coalesce into specifics... especially compared with the known kick in the nads that is the fiscal cliff (if in fact people even have their heads around that yet.)

    PFnV
     
  4. Kid~Brady

    Kid~Brady In the Starting Line-Up

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    #12 Jersey

    Lol, I knew that was coming. ;)
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  5. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    Your last point +1

    I highly doubt most Americans understand how bad things will get if we just go off the cliff. Most need things explained to them and most don't want to know much about it.

    If we do go off the cliff, we WILL experience significant economic hardship and increased unemployment. And if that happens, unemployment benefits won't be for 99 weeks anymore!
     
  6. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Actually we need the fiscal cliff more than we need an agreement.

    Taxes will go up and the budget will be slashed more than any cliff agreement.
     
  7. PatsFanInVa

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    Let's take two scenarios Icy:

    Scenario 1: You destroy growth and plunge America in the double-dip recession. Everybody has less, can make less, and is taxed more. All services simultaneously are deeply slashed.

    Scenario 2: Growth continues, and has the chance to pick up markedly once the cliff is "past."

    Scenario 1 might get us to a more manageable debt-to-GDP profile, but given its predictably effect on growth, it probably will have the opposite effect. However, the absolute number representing the debt will rise less quickly.

    Scenarios 2 will get us to a more manageable debt-to-GDP profile. The absolute number representing the debt will rise more quickly, but the debt-to-GDP ratio will decline. Growth will increase, relative to scenario 1.

    Do you want your bumper sticker ("I reduced the debt and all I got was this lousy bumper sticker,") or do you want a better economy, and a better debt number that matters -- that is, debt relative to the economy (as opposed to in a vacuum)?

    PR, it actually sounds like you are getting this at the moment. Explain to Icy will ya?

    PFnV
     
  8. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Pro Bowl Player

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    Gotta love reverse-engineering
     
  9. Hebeill

    Hebeill 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Don't fret :nono:... cliff diving will basically bring us back to where we were pre 9/11

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  10. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    Obama can't allow taxes to increase on those making less than $250k or he'll lose credibility.

    On top of that, most of us in that group can't afford another few grand a year in taxes. Heck, I know I can't....nor am I willing.

    Not that last part matters any.

    The best way for us to reduce our deficit is to increase taxes upon those who can afford it and hope our economy can get back to "normal" historical growth. The more people that have jobs, the more tax revenue our gov't gets.

    Increase my taxes and I guarantee I'll spend significantly less next year. And that means no new windows and other stuff I hope to have done. I was also going to buy a new car next year, but would re-consider if my taxes are raised substantially.

    That's kinda the way EVERYONE does things.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  11. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    +1

    Any agreement will be more or less a useless kick the can paper weight. It will only serve to delay the inevitible. We don't have any leadership in Washington, nor do we have any intelligent, competent people. Who do you think is genuinely smart enough to understand the problems at hand? Nancy Pelosi? Harry Reid? Mitch McConnel? All morons, surrounded by more morons. Who do you think is willing to not only propose the cuts and policy changes we need from top to bottom, which will require biting the political bullet, and forcing the necessary hardship on the american people, that a true fix demands? Obama, Reid, McConnell, Boehner, etc? Not only are these people incompetent, politically driven, and incapable of compromise, they all lack the leadership traits that real changes require. Do you honestly think defense spending will be cut 20-40%? Illegals deported and the border sealed? A comprehensive energy and tax policy put in place? Entitlements slashed to sustainable levels? Corporate and social welfare either eliminated, or moderated to need basis? We all know the answer to that.

    The fake "deadline" will pass, and in the 11th hour an agreement not worth the toilet paper I wipe my arse with after a trip to the throne, will be celebrated as "historic" and "economy saving", only to be later disected for the fraud that it is. Kinda like government data that is initially reported, and later "revised" to soften their real meaning. A meaning that even when revised, never tells the true story. We spend $1 trillion plus more than we take in. That my friends, is unsustainable by any measure. The spending side has to come down, and it has to come down drastically. There isn't any "revenue" option that can make up that $1 trillion on a consistent, year over year basis.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  12. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    Mark Steyn: America not paying its fair share | percent, government, spending - Opinion - The Orange County Register
     
  13. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

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    That's a terrifically specious argument from Mark Steyn. I also heard, and this is big news, that we won't be able to mitigate our fiscal gap by defunding PBS. Le sad.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  14. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    How is it specious?

    Give us your plan with numbers.
     
  15. JackBauer

    JackBauer Pro Bowl Player

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    Don't think anyone is talking about confiscatory taxation nor closing the gap solely by taxing the wealthy.

    That and the fact the entire article is framed as an either/or, which is also specious reasoning.
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  16. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    He has no plan, and doesn't understand numbers. ;)
     
  17. PatsFanInVa

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    It an incredibly oft-repeated idiot's chant. Go ahead and google "even if you confiscated" and see what you get. They even use the same no-doubt Luntz-inspired word every time they do this.

    Here's the formula:

    "Even if you confiscated 100% of" [name very small set of very wealthy people,] "it wouldn't solve" [gargantuan economic problem.]

    Know what? Just give the country half of that and it would be a mammoth step toward fixing everything. But of course we can't inconvenience the rich that much.

    So, we'll just hit 'em for 4.5% more marginal tax. Ta-daaaa. They'll pay for some of the solution. Other progress will come from cuts. We took 230 years to run up this debt. News flash: we don't have to pay it off in one day.

    As to balancing the budget as a first step: OH NOES, we'll still likely have a deficit. Why? We're still supporting the economy.

    Oh let's just stop doing that!

    Um, that's pretty much what the fiscal cliff is. You jumpin'?

    Fact is, you don't withdraw gubmit money during a recession. Recession might be over on paper, but we're not out of the woods. We'd be closer if pubbie state houses weren't working overtime to artificially pump up our unemployment rate by firing their essential personnel.

    Bet they'll come begging to Washington later when they realize what a shambles they've made of things. Typical pubbie state-level move.

    PFnV
     
  18. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Only in some fantasy would my USA government raise more revenue and actually spend less.

    has my USA government actually ever done this before in my lifetime?

    If the government actually has ever understood this notion why have they never done it on their own without pressure?

    while pondering the above also let me know if - where - and when Obama has uttered the words he is going to squeeze for savings from every area of the budget including eliminating fraud and wasteful spending in the welfare section of the budget. I hear people threaten Medicare and seniors which is horrible ... how about all the fraud in the welfare sector ... and there is tons and tons of it.

    Is it harder the same or easier to get government assistance since George Bush became President 12 years ago. Has the government looked for any ways to save money in this area or have they increased handouts without question?

    Between war and welfare we are drowning.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2012
  19. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Dig deeper, Icy my friend. Look for Heritage's definition of "welfare." Come back and let me know what programs they are assigning as trillion-dollar-a-year welfare expenditures.

    Let me know what you find.

    PFnV
     
  20. alvinnf

    alvinnf In the Starting Line-Up

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    DC is a gigantic bloated, money hungry machine. It must be stopped! We need to bring back liberty and American values. New American values that include those considered the fringe of 20 yrs ago.
     

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