First impressions...

[ATippett56]

Re: First impressions....

Personally, I think the offensive play calling was suspect in this game for the New England Patriots. The Cleveland Browns came into the game with the 30th ranked rush defense.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categoryst...onference=ALL&role=OPP&season=&seasonType=REG

So why attempt 38 passes? What's wrong trying to establish the running game from the start?

Also, the New England Patriots offense was only 2 for 12 on third down conversions.

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/boxscore?game_id=29259&displayPage=tab_box_score&season=2007&week=REG5

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: First impressions....

So you are confident that we can execute better next week?

Of course.

So im conversing with someone who is playing devils advocate here?

No, you're conversing with someone who doesn't think that fan = ballwasher

Hope you aren't one of those guys who thinks the playcalling sucks when we don't get 7 every time we drive.

No, but there were several 'questionable' play calls made which certainly didn't help a team that already seemed flat.

I think every Patriots fan should have to support a poor team (from another sport, if required) for a qualifying period of not less than 2 years.

Then they can come back and realise how lucky they are - and thank the lord for their new found 'perspective'.

Bring on the 'Boys.

I think most Patriots fans have supported a terrible, not just bad, team, given how bad this New England team has often been in my lifetime. I also think that this post is precisely the sort of garbage that I'm talking about when I decry the koolaiders making stupid comments towards fans who have a sensible concern about the team. Those of us who've been around football for longer than the BB era have plenty of 'perspective', thank you, especially those of us who remember the dark days under Coach Rust.

If you think the Patriots of this week were good enough to beat Dallas or Indianapolis, you haven't been watching football this season. The Indianapolis Colts that buried the Buccaneers today would have carved up this week's Patriots just as easily. I think the team will be better next week, but it's not irrational for others to disagree given the poor performance in all phases of the game that was witnessed today.

What the koolaid people are going to simply have to accept is that this team is going to be measured against the Colts, the Cowboys, the previous Patriots Super Bowl teams and the all-time great NFL teams by a lot of people, and not just by some Patriots fans that you don't think have sufficient team spirit. Like it or not, what was seen today was simply not good enough for people using that sort of lens while looking at this team.

 

[JoeSixPat]

Re: First impressions....

Well done Ken...

Just to add - seemed to me that the Pats very much WANTED to get the ball to Stallworth and Watson in this game, regardless of the double coverage on Moss and even Welker.

There was no need to panic with the lack of Stallworth touches in the earlier games, but seems to me game 5 against the Browns is a good time to show what he can do if left in single coverage.

That alone will give DC's fits

Aside from that, a pretty sloppy game - without those two INTs in the first quarter we're potentially looking at a very different ballgame.

 

[marty]

Re: First impressions....

did Kevin Faulk even play in the second half?

I think people are underestimating the loss of Koppen for this game

Faulk went off very early and appeared banged up. Did not come back. Hopefully just minor ouch.
Hochstein did well filling in for Koppen, missed one major tackle that I recall, but pretty consistent for most of the game. No doubt Koppen gives our whole O line a better edge when he's in there, but I'm glad he got this game off to heal up.

 

[jct]

Re: First impressions....

Come on, I think you guys are missing the point here.
This was our production:
3 Passing TDS, no INTs, no Sacks
100+ Yards by 2nd string RB
Good game by TE and 3rd WR in performance.

IMO the truth is RAC had a good scheme against us.
He limited Moss and Welker.
We didn't have Maroney.
So we mutated a little bit, and dropped our successful pass % a little bit.

I don't see that as a bad game.
Great Plays by Seau and Bruschi and Asante and Gay.
Of course it will be interesting to see what happens next week.
I suspect Maroney returns and that really helps the whole game.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Re: First impressions....

is it me or did brady not have any real zip on the ball??


the one time he did it was not a tight spiral to watson.

i think losing faulk for the second half changed the dynamic of the pats game.

is it any coincidence that the pats scored 20 in first half and then sputtered somewhat in the second?

 

[Terry Glenn is a cowgirl]

Re: First impressions....

they played good enough to win...but it did seem to be a lack of something.

 

[bradmahn]

Re: First impressions....

Of course.



No, you're conversing with someone who doesn't think that fan = ballwasher



No, but there were several 'questionable' play calls made which certainly didn't help a team that already seemed flat.



I think most Patriots fans have supported a terrible, not just bad, team, given how bad this New England team has often been in my lifetime. I also think that this post is precisely the sort of garbage that I'm talking about when I decry the koolaiders making stupid comments towards fans who have a sensible concern about the team. Those of us who've been around football for longer than the BB era have plenty of 'perspective', thank you, especially those of us who remember the dark days under Coach Rust.

If you think the Patriots of this week were good enough to beat Dallas or Indianapolis, you haven't been watching football this season. The Indianapolis Colts that buried the Buccaneers today would have carved up this week's Patriots just as easily. I think the team will be better next week, but it's not irrational for others to disagree given the poor performance in all phases of the game that was witnessed today.

What the koolaid people are going to simply have to accept is that this team is going to be measured against the Colts, the Cowboys, the previous Patriots Super Bowl teams and the all-time great NFL teams by a lot of people, and not just by some Patriots fans that you don't think have sufficient team spirit. Like it or not, what was seen today was simply not good enough for people using that sort of lens while looking at this team.

You're acting sort of Felgerian in your attempts to "not be a koolaider." The Pats didn't play a great game this week, but it was still top-notch, and in year's past would have been one of the best performances of the year. The defense allowed a little bit of yardage, but 58 of it was on the end of the game drive by the Browns, which was meaningless. They forced a lot of TO's, and the red-zone D showed up today. Classic bend-but-don't-break. Many in New England have forgotten that those Pats teams of the past weren't invincible.

The offense was efficient for the most part, but there were way too many dropped balls that ended promising or crucial drives. They still managed to gain nearly 420 yards of offense and score 27 points without Brady having one of his superhuman perfomances.

Being rational does not mean focusing on the negative while ignoring the positive.

 

[psychoPat]

Re: First impressions....

they played good enough to win...but it did seem to be a lack of something.

Thank goodness!
To play beneath yourself ... and yet win.
Even the master motivator needs
some groceries
to feed the guys humble pie.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: First impressions....

You're acting sort of Felgerian in your attempts to "not be a koolaider." The Pats didn't play a great game this week, but it was still top-notch, and in year's past would have been one of the best performances of the year. The defense allowed a little bit of yardage, but 58 of it was on the end of the game drive by the Browns, which was meaningless. They forced a lot of TO's, and the red-zone D showed up today. Classic bend-but-don't-break. Many in New England have forgotten that those Pats teams of the past weren't invincible.

The offense was efficient for the most part, but there were way too many dropped balls that ended promising or crucial drives. They still managed to gain nearly 420 yards of offense and score 27 points without Brady having one of his superhuman perfomances.

Being rational does not mean focusing on the negative while ignoring the positive.

This kind of koolaid nonsense is precisely why people should never take homers seriously when it comes to game or personnel evaluation. The notion that this was a top-notch performance is absurd.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Re: First impressions....

Being rational does not mean focusing on the negative while ignoring the positive.

Amen. This was what I was sorta trying to get at in my abortive "disappointment" thread--it's not that this team played terribly, so much as we "know" they can play so much better than they did.

Would any reasonable Pats fan have complained about Brady's performance today if it had taken place last year?

 

[bradmahn]

Re: First impressions....

This kind of koolaid nonsense is precisely why people should never take homers seriously when it comes to game or personnel evaluation. The notion that this was a top-notch performance is absurd.

Okay, scout, let's hear your take. Please, give me your in-depth personnel evaluation.

You claim they had an off game, and by all of the standards they've set this season, I agree. That being said, the game was still a 17 point blow-out, and was in hand for the vast majority of the game. Brady and his receivers were not out-of-this world like they have been, but if Brady threw for 265, with three TDs, had a 100 yard running back and a 100 yard receiver in the same game any other year in his career it would be a supremely successful game.

The defense was as tenacious as those other years as well. Today's game was classic Patriots football, which has allowed them to beat teams like the Colts and Cowboys of years past.

 

[tedylb]

Re: First impressions....

Fine post as always, Ken.

I'm glad the team got a lackluster win behind them before the Cowboys game. Brady will make sure he and the offense play better next week. I hope Koppen is back to anchor the OL.

Still, it was a solid performance by Morris, Watson, Welker, the OL, and Stallworth (with a couple of goofs). On D, I liked the play of Vince, Junior, Tedy, AD, Geno, and Gay. Anyone I missed?

And as some of you mentioned, Gay's last minute strip TD probably cost and made millions for many lucky and unfortunate gamblers. The smart money usually victimizes the dumb money, as the Pats have covered in every game.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: First impressions....

Okay, scout, let's hear your take. Please, give me your in-depth personnel evaluation.

You claim they had an off game, and by all of the standards they've set this season, I agree.

End of story. All the rest is just an attempt to sugarcoat the above. This team played poorly, by this season's standards, in all phases of the game, and won because they are good enough to get away with that against a team of Cleveland's caliber.

 

[bradmahn]

Re: First impressions....

End of story. All the rest is just an attempt to sugarcoat the above. This team played poorly, by this season's standards, in all phases of the game, and won because they are good enough to get away with that against a team of Cleveland's caliber.

No, that's not the end of the question. You claim you are so unbiased your assessments are better than my "koolaid drinking" ones. They aren't going to play perfectly every game, and you're going to get performances like this one more this year. You act like a fanboy "ballwasher" when you expect a 30 point win every game and demean everyone else for being realistic in their assessments of these games.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: First impressions....

No, that's not the end of the question. You claim you are so unbiased your assessments are better than my "koolaid drinking" ones. They aren't going to play perfectly every game, and you're going to get performances like this one more this year. You act like a fanboy "ballwasher" when you expect a 30 point win every game and demean everyone else for being realistic in their assessments of these games.

You're not being realistic. You're comparing the team to last year as if it means anything. Will you go back to the Rod Rust era to back up your claims if needed? This was the team's worst game of the season in terms of both execution and final scoring outcome. I know they aren't going to play perfect every game. I've already said that and noted that I'm almost thrilled with how things worked out. Just note my earlier comment:

Fankly, I'm close to thrilled by how it worked out. I'm just not going to bash people for seeing the obvious and coming to a less rosy conclusion about it.

Now, feel free to actually read my posts before making more comments that are simply flat out wrong.

P.S..... sorry, I misspelled 'frankly' in the earlier post.

 

[bradmahn]

Re: First impressions....

You're not being realistic. You're comparing the team to last year as if it means anything. Will you go back to the Rod Rust era to back up your claims if needed? This was the team's worst game of the season in terms of both execution and final scoring outcome. I know they aren't going to play perfect every game. I've already said that and noted that I'm almost thrilled with how things worked out. Just note my earlier comment:



Now, feel free to actually read my posts before making more comments that are simply flat out wrong.

P.S..... sorry, I misspelled 'frankly' in the earlier post.

Tell me what part of my comments are flat out wrong.

And no, my comparison of today's performance was to teams of '01, '03, and '04, when they were good enough to win 14, 17, and 17 games on their way to winning Super Bowls. I believe I am more realistic in assessing this game as being good enough to beat most teams in the NFL than you are in acting like Chicken Little.

And you're going to respond by attempting to degrade my posts or me in whatever way you can, so I don't particularly care if we disagree on this.

 

[patfanken]

Re: First impressions....

A couple of points on rebuttle.

1. This was the first time Brady missed open receivers more than a couple of times. I can think of 4 times off hand. He also had 2 or 3 drops go against him. AGAIN, 27 points against any NFL offense is a decent day's work. Most of our complaints are due to how perfect the offense has been in the 4 prior games.

2. I feel that the offense could have added that extra TD in the 4th if it had wanted to.

3. We have all seemed to forget the old adage, "they other guys are on scholarship too." Too many of the negative commentors seem to forget that the Browns are a pretty good football team. They have a lot of rather high draft picks (in each round) who are now coming together under a good HC. I predict they will be spoilers this year, but in the future they will be consistant playoff contenders.

4. I failed to mention in my original post that the Browns will soon find themselves in a SD type situation with Anderson and Quinn.

 

[patsox23]

Re: First impressions....

The Patriots just played their worst game of the season in the week before going up against what is currently the best team in the NFC, and doing it on the road. Only the blind don't look at that as a problem, and there's nothing wrong with looking at that as something to be very concerned about.

NOPE. "Something to be VERY concerned about?" Good grief. I didn't see the game but this seems ridiculous to me. The fact that this was their "worst game of the season" has NOTHING to do with the fact that we're "going up against...the best team in the NFC."

In fact, it seems to me that the Pats, as has been their custom, played a little down to their competition today. This actually bodes WELL for next week - in that they will likely have extra motivation/focus because it's a tough team AND a bit more because they didn't play so well today.

This is obvious. It's embarrassing to have to explain it on a site like patsfans. This isn't a chargers forum, for God's sake. Raise the bar a bit, my friend.

 

[BelichickFan]

Re: First impressions....

4. I failed to mention in my original post that the Browns will soon find themselves in a SD type situation with Anderson and Quinn.

I don't think there'll be much of a market for Anderson until/unless he gets more accurate and cuts his INTs down. He's just good enough to kill you (his own team) right now.