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Fire Valentine!!!!

Discussion in 'Red Sox Fan Forum' started by Wolfpack, Apr 8, 2012.

  1. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    I said firing Tito was a horrible idea. I said hiring Valentine was an even worse one.

    I see nothing thus far in the season to make me reconsider either of those statements.
  2. Boston Boxer

    Boston Boxer U.S. Air Force Retired PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    the pitching sucks...i blame the front office for not getting better pitchers in the off season. alls we have is retreads that we hope pan out.
  3. Run DMC

    Run DMC Rookie

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    The hitting is no great shakes either!:eek:
  4. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #51 Jersey

    It's not Valentine's fault that the Pitching staff put together by Epstein and Cherrington are next to useless.
  5. Boston Boxer

    Boston Boxer U.S. Air Force Retired PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #75 Jersey

    i know, thats what i said.
  6. THELAWFIRM226

    THELAWFIRM226 Rookie

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    3 losses out of 162, I think we're are mathematically out of the playoffs.
  7. captain insano

    captain insano Rookie

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    i dont know about anybody else. but i cant get over the fact that somebody in the front office leaked that story about franconna taking pain meds. that's about as low as you can go. it makes me sick every time i think about it. franconna did nothing but take responsibility for just about everything even when he didn't have to. and they treat him like dog crap. he was the best manager they ever had and he deserved to be treated so much better than that. its a wonder anybody would want to come play for henry and crew.
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2012
  8. hellolin

    hellolin Rookie

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    I am not a red sox fan, but a pats fan. It's funny how you can have the pats as one of the best managed team, with one of the best owner in all sports, overachieving every year no matter what they have, and then you have the red sox, who spends a lot but get not much results, treats its former employees like crap, and is disolent and stands out as the New York Jets of the baseball world. Plus from the first three games I can clearly tell no one on the red sox team has bought into Bobby V's system yet...not at all!
  9. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #51 Jersey

    I know, I was reinforcing that point. Not that I think highly of the way he's organised the pitching staff or bull pen, but pitching has been an issue for some time with the Red Sox and they really haven't brought in anyone of substantial quality to fix it.

    Whatever floats the FO's boat I guess.
  10. resdubwhite

    resdubwhite Rookie

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    #87 Jersey

    Dice K, Papi and Jenks salaries are off the table at the end of the year.

    Trade Beckett (if he can put 2 or 3 useful starts together).

    Youk maybe done (he looks to be very brittle out there.)
    Write off 2012 and see what we can get for these two guys.

    Then use the dollars in 2013 to get some pitching in and give Ells a massive contract (That he totally deserves BTW).
    Revising this team down to about 75-80 wins
  11. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    When did Red Sox panic day get moved all the way up to Easter?

    What's next? Will we start swooning over Spring Training losses?
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2012
  12. resdubwhite

    resdubwhite Rookie

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    #87 Jersey

    The time for panic was the first week in September last year.

    These team has well publicised and serious problems. Cherrington did nothing about it in the winter.
  13. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ---- JAG ----- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

  14. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    You're talking about trading two players who, at the current moment, would barely be able to fetch a bag of balls.

    If you really wanted to write off 2012, then the guy to trade would be Ellsbury. HIs value will never be higher than it is at this moment and he is not going to be worth the obscene amount of dollars he will command as an unrestricted free agent. And your idea to "give him a massive contract" simply will not fly. Ellsbury/Boras are headed towards free agency and there's not a thing you can do to stop that.
  15. Real World

    Real World Rookie

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    Dher ruinin my Eastah! :eek:

    Francona was a good manager, but he clearly had to go. I see a lot of commonalities with the Joe Torre situation for the Yankees a few years back. After a while, the students stop paying attention, and a change needs to be made. That being said, I agree that Valentine will eventually be a disaster in Boston.


    The Redsox problems are their bad contracts and declining players. Beckett & Youk's talents are declining, while Crawford, Jenks, Lackey, and Dice-K's deals hurt them financially. What's that about $80+ million in deals for players that are either on the DL, or not performing very well. Serious ouch.
  16. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    OT: On what basis does Ellsbury "totally deserve" a massive contract? He's played 3 full seasons, of which 1 was a superb year. I'd like to see a guy at least put together back-to-back good years before the team makes a 9-figure commitment (or whatever you deem massive).

    (I'd like to see Ellsbury stay w/the Sox past 2013, btw. But just like the fanbase got overly down on him when he had broken ribs, I think people -- many of whom are probably the same people :) -- are now overly high on him. I guess that's the way of many team's fanbases, though, particularly the Sox?)
  17. TheBeers

    TheBeers Rookie

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    I hated the Valentine hire.. still do. I just don't like him and never have. Wish we could've kept Tito. That said.. they can't fire him now.. the other posters are right though about our pitching. It stinks, and that's not Valentines fault.
  18. resdubwhite

    resdubwhite Rookie

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    #87 Jersey

    I would imagine the Crawford contract is ball park figure for Ellsbury.

    FWIW. other than the injuries in 2010 I think Ellsbury has been a great player with the team. IF he replicates 2011 numbers this year i think he'll get huge money.
    Will the club move on from him if as I believe they have another option on him for 2013?
    I dunno.
  19. resdubwhite

    resdubwhite Rookie

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    #87 Jersey

    Outisde of September last year Beckett had a fantastic 2011.
    It all depends on how is thumb is. I have a terrible feeling his first start in Fenway will not be pretty.

    He may be boo'ed from start to finish.

    If he puts together some solid starts together there could an out for both parties.

    Maybe the club have to pay some of his salary up to 2014?
    but a messy divorce is looming there.
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2012
  20. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    I like Ellsbury, but he wasn't a great player in either 08 or 09.

    If he repeats his 2011, then he will have put together back-to-back elite level years.

    But as things stand now, he's had an ok year, a pretty good year and an excellent year, along with a year of injuries. My only point was that that profile doesn't merit a monster deal.
  21. resdubwhite

    resdubwhite Rookie

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    #87 Jersey

    the one difference between 08-09 and last year was the amount of HR's scored.

    Batting average was close. runs and RBI's pretty similar.

    I thought he was pretty damn good those years. 2011 he was all world.
    If he keeps up the average and add's 20-25 HR's this year....
  22. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    You need to take a closer look, I think.

    Look at OPS, for ex -- 930 v 730 and 770

    BA was 320, v 280 and 300

    32 HRs v 8 and 9 is a huge leap

    46 2Bs v 22 and 27

    3Bs were down slightly (5 v 7 and 10); SBs were down, partly b/c of his increased power, partly b/c he ran less, partly b/c he ran worse (39-54, v 50-61 and 70-82)

    08 and 09 simply weren't great years. They were fine, and showed promise, but not great. look at OPS in those years -- 730 and 770. I'd argue that you bump those up a bit b/c of his SBs, but it's still a decent year and a pretty good year, respectively.
  23. Patriot Missile

    Patriot Missile Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    So far the guy seems like a first class jerk. The media and Schilling isn't helping his cause either. He needs to stop responding and start managing.
  24. resdubwhite

    resdubwhite Rookie

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    #87 Jersey

    Well said. If he can figure a way to get the bats going the Red sox would be 4-2 now instead of 1-5.
  25. chicowalker

    chicowalker Rookie

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    what has he done wrong? (I'm in LA -- hear less day to day, which in general is a good thing, imo :) )
  26. resdubwhite

    resdubwhite Rookie

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    #87 Jersey

    Last edited: Apr 16, 2012
  27. Wolfpack

    Wolfpack Banned

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    What he said about Youkilis was out of line but lemme tell ya..... the way Pedroia reacted, and having done so in such a public fashion, speaks volumes.
  28. resdubwhite

    resdubwhite Rookie

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    #87 Jersey

    "I know that Youk plays as hard as anyone I've ever seen in my life," Pedroia said. "I have his back, and his teammates have his back and we know how hard he plays. I don't really understand what Bobby's trying to do, but that's really not the way we go about our stuff here. I'm sure he'll figure that out soon."


    Not much reading between the lines required there. Would be interested to hear Cherringtons opinion on this now.


    If he's smart he'll shut up and try to deal with it internally.
  29. cmasspatsfan

    cmasspatsfan Rookie

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    You guys are doing what the mediots did, your taking one part of what he said and not everything else he said, different context if you heard it live or read all of what he said

    Same with what Pedey said

    Im not a big Bobby V fan but I think the media is just waiting for him to say something, anything that they can run with. I heard it live last night and it actually sounded to me like he was sticking up for Youks saying he didnt start off well and hasnt gotten into his usual groove yet but it looks like hes getting into one now.

    Mountain out of a molehill.
  30. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #51 Jersey

    It's about time someone started getting stuck into the prima donna players. Players should NEVER dictate terms to management. Bobby V needs to stick to his guns and take a hard line approach. I don't care if this season is wasted as long as management reinforces they are the guys who make the decisions, not the players.

    For the record, I wanted the Sox to keep Beltre ahead of Youkilis. I didn't think Bobby V was harsh on Youk at all either.
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2012

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