Finding a gem in the WR free agency list (more realistic options)

[supafly]

Please.... list all those 6'2" 220lb WRs that can actually fight off CBs who will be available this offseason....

I think this is something that many here forget, you have to work with what is available.

Especially in the era of the salary cap where cost is always going to be key, and there are many other important areas of the team that need to be addressed.

There really aren't a huge cast of options to try and turn into Jerry Rice, otherwise we wouldn't even be discussing someone like T.Young.

 

[fumbrunner]

Please.... list all those 6'2" 220lb WRs that can actually fight off CBs who will be available this offseason....

The free agent WR crops is pretty weak, IMO. But I think there will be a draft pick allocated to a WR. Hopefully with those types of measurements. If you held a gun to my head to pick one, Hartline is 6'2" and has good size at over 200lbs. Hagen perhaps if you are looking at a depth type guy (ie not a starter)

Boldin would be a dream if he is a cap casualty.

 

[ausbacker]

Titus Young immediately upgrades the #3 receiver position. He may be an idiot, but BB has proven he's willing to take a chance on reclamation projects.

 

[supafly]

The free agent WR crops is pretty weak, IMO. But I think there will be a draft pick allocated to a WR. Hopefully with those types of measurements. If you held a gun to my head to pick one, Hartline is 6'2" and has good size at over 200lbs. Hagen perhaps if you are looking at a depth type guy (ie not a starter)

Boldin would be a dream if he is a cap casualty.

I think a lot would have to happen before Boldin made it here. First the Ravens would be taking away Flacco's #1 weapon, which may not make much sense since they're giving him all of that money. I would venture to guess that keeping Boldin is rather high on Baltimore's to-do list at the moment.

Secondly, the NEP would have to offer him enough money that they'd lure him away from any other perspective clubs. That itself may be the least likely of all of the scenarios, and even IF they somehow did that, it would probably mean that Welker was gone or that another important position may suffer.

I hope you're right though, as Boldin would be a nice acquisition.

As far as bringing in a top round draft pick, sure, it's probably going to happen. That said, there haven't been too many WRs taken by this team in any round who have produced in their first year, as that is often viewed as a chance to learn the complicated playbook and nuances of the timing system that is extremely important when developing chemistry with Brady.

They'll have to draft someone this year regardless, but that may be with more of an eye towards the future of 2014 and beyond. I think we'd have to luck out in a big way to get the kind of production from a rookie that we'd need for next year.

And Hartline may fall into the too expensive category also, although I'm not even convinced that he's even worth it, and I'm a huge OSU fan who is quite familiar with his body of work.

 

[Deus Irae]

The free agent WR crops is pretty weak, IMO. But I think there will be a draft pick allocated to a WR. Hopefully with those types of measurements. If you held a gun to my head to pick one, Hartline is 6'2" and has good size at over 200lbs. Hagen perhaps if you are looking at a depth type guy (ie not a starter)

Boldin would be a dream if he is a cap casualty.

Hartline's about 20 pounds short of your number, along with being wildly overrated by this forum.

Hagan's about 10 pounds short of your number, and he's not really even good enough to be a depth guy.

6'2", 220 guys who can manhandle opposing CBs from day one tend to go in the top 10 in the draft.

This year's crop of 6'2", 220 lb guys who can manhandle CBs includes Anquan Boldin and..... Anquan Boldin (for the record, I wanted him when he was available). Dwayne Bowe can do it on occasion as well, but he runs as if he's swimming in molasses, half-asses it unless he's in the mood to play, and has lousy hands.

That's the problem with wish lists. They usually are in stark contrast to the reality lists.

 

[fumbrunner]

Hartline's about 20 pounds short of your number, along with being wildly overrated by this forum.

Hagan's about 10 pounds short of your number, and he's not really even good enough to be a depth guy.

6'2", 220 guys who can manhandle opposing CBs from day one tend to go in the top 10 in the draft.

This year's crop of 6'2", 220 lb guys who can manhandle CBs includes Anquan Boldin and..... Anquan Boldin (for the record, I wanted him when he was available). Dwayne Bowe can do it on occasion as well, but he runs as if he's swimming in molasses, half-asses it unless he's in the mood to play, and has lousy hands.

That's the problem with wish lists. They usually are in stark contrast to the reality lists.

Which is why you haven't seen me advocate for anyone but Boldin in these threads, knowing full well that he is still under contract. There is no one out there in the free agent market that I feel would improve the position.

I agree with you that they need to find a way to keep Welker. I think we could still expect increased production from Edelman, if he could stay healthy.

As for the draft, I'll leave it to the draft gurus as I don't watch College ball.

 

[fumbrunner]

And Hartline may fall into the too expensive category also, although I'm not even convinced that he's even worth it, and I'm a huge OSU fan who is quite familiar with his body of work.

agreed. It is believed that he is looking for $5 mill a year. Too rich for the Pats I suspect.

 

[Joker]

BB has repeatedly taken stabs at the WR position in the draft...he does it again this draft IMO...any free agent signings will be of lesser importance...anyway, that's the way I see it...I really do not like any of the free agents to be and personally find the Hartline love to be idiotic

 

[Deus Irae]

Which is why you haven't seen me advocate for anyone but Boldin in these threads, knowing full well that he is still under contract. There is no one out there in the free agent market that I feel would improve the position.

I agree with you that they need to find a way to keep Welker. I think we could still expect increased production from Edelman, if he could stay healthy.

As for the draft, I'll leave it to the draft gurus as I don't watch College ball.

I hear you, and I wasn't trying to call you out. Unfortunately, there just aren't a lot of monster-sized WRs who can play. Even Moss never really fit the description you gave, for example, since he was taller, but thinner and had to work to get away from press coverage. I think that's what originally fascinated BB about Hernandez, but I also think BB's probably seeing from the tape that Hernandez isn't so much an oversized WR as he is a tweener.

 

[fumbrunner]

I hear you, and I wasn't trying to call you out. Unfortunately, there just aren't a lot of monster-sized WRs who can play. Even Moss never really fit the description you gave, for example, since he was taller, but thinner and had to work to get away from press coverage. I think that's what originally fascinated BB about Hernandez, but I also think BB's probably seeing from the tape that Hernandez isn't so much an oversized WR as he is a tweener.

Maybe Josh McD can find us a Demaryius Thomas. That was a hell of a pick, as was Decker (not bad for a 3rd rounder).

 

[DocHoliday]

People always talk about Brady not being in sync with rookie receivers but I honestly think it has something at least to do with his lack of trying.

He doesn't really care to get involved with new receivers since its been a long time any of them were expected to be WR1 or WR2. Think Tate - a clear WR3 that Brady didn't really spend too too much time developing chemistry with.

Brady does every now and then focus on a receiver - he practiced one on one with Edelman a bit in the offseason and it showed.

I think if you give Brady a first or second round pick WR who was expected to produce day one (not, in other words, some depth for the future) he'll practice and train them like Manning did Thomas and Decker this year.

They won't be as good as year 2 or year 3 starters but certainly better than 'not contributing'.

 

[supafly]

Maybe Josh McD can find us a Demaryius Thomas. That was a hell of a pick, as was Decker (not bad for a 3rd rounder).

Decker was actually very impressive at the University of Minnesota. I think that going in the 3rd round was pretty spot on as to where he should have gone.

Regardless it was a good pick, and hopefully they can find someone in April.

 

[Deus Irae]

Maybe Josh McD can find us a Demerius Thomas. That was a hell of a pick.

I freakin' loved that pick. He was reportedly running sub 4.4 40s before his injury. All he needed was some seasoning in a pro offense, and now he's a monster. That draft was a great one for the Broncos.*

Thomas (starting WR)
Tebow (backup for the Jets, better than their starter :singing: )
Beadles (starting guard)
Walton (starting center)
Decker (starting WR)
Cox (backup/nickel cb for 49ers)
Olsen (backup for the Saints, got 4 starts this season)

*Whether you're a Tebow fan or not, that's a hell of a solid draft for a guy who was shown the door in a year and a half.

 

[supafly]

People always talk about Brady not being in sync with rookie receivers but I honestly think it has something at least to do with his lack of trying.

He doesn't really care to get involved with new receivers since its been a long time any of them were expected to be WR1 or WR2. Think Tate - a clear WR3 that Brady didn't really spend too too much time developing chemistry with.

Brady does every now and then focus on a receiver - he practiced one on one with Edelman a bit in the offseason and it showed.

I think if you give Brady a first or second round pick WR who was expected to produce day one (not, in other words, some depth for the future) he'll practice and train them like Manning did Thomas and Decker this year.

They won't be as good as year 2 or year 3 starters but certainly better than 'not contributing'.

All fair points. My concern isn't necessarily the rookie WR not contributing at all, it is more about the rookie WR not contributing to the level that we'd need.

Of course that level of need may not be quite what I'm expecting it to be either, especially if Welker is retained.

One of the problems with the rookie WRs has been the complexity of the offense (in my opinion), as they have to spend a longer period of simply learning the playbook and all of the read/react options of knowing just about everything about where all the players need to be.

We've seen plenty of instances where that receiver didn't even know where to be on a consistent enough basis.

I also think that may have something to do with the actual selection too, as Belichick is going to certainly want someone smart enough to know all of those specifics, and that limits the sheer "talent" aspect of everything. That certainly limits some of the aspects of the WR pick itself. It's a difficult position to select for a rookie WR in my opinion.

 

[supafly]

I freakin' loved that pick. He was reportedly running sub 4.4 40s before his injury. All he needed was some seasoning in a pro offense, and now he's a monster.

See that's the kind of stuff I'm talking about in terms of the selection itself being more difficult simply based on their current methods.

I think the concern about D.Thomas was that he worked in an option style running attack, where he didn't see enough complex looks and the basis of the offense may not equate into a decent enough example of an NFL setting.

They either need to go for an all-out changeup of what they look for (not likely) or at least lessen the reigns a bit on the specifics of what kind of guy may be able to produce.

Thomas is an excellent example of someone who had awesome meaurables and great potential of talent, yet probably didn't show them enough of what they needed to consider taking him in terms of smarts and adaptibility to this kind of offense.

Maybe McDaniels does have more input this time if that's the way they go, although we don't know how much his talent evaluation vs luck came into play either?

 

[Deus Irae]

...I think the concern about D.Thomas was that he worked in an option style running attack, where he didn't see enough complex looks and the basis of the offense may not equate into a decent enough example of an NFL setting.

They either need to go for an all-out changeup of what they look for (not likely) or at least lessen the reigns a bit on the specifics of what kind of guy may be able to produce.

Thomas is an excellent example of someone who had awesome meaurables and great potential of talent, yet probably didn't show them enough of what they needed to consider taking him in terms of smarts and adaptibility to this kind of offense...

It was the same with Stephen Hill, whom the Jets drafted. If they can get that kid to run crisper routes and catch the ball cleaner, they're going to have a guy who's 6'4", 220+lbs and runs in the 4.3s making Mark Sanchez or his successor look a hell of a lot better than he really is.

 

[Joey007]

How about Mohammed Massaquoi. The guy was a 2nd round pick in 2009. Had a good rookie year, but his play has slowly decreased since. He's 6'2, so he has decent size as well. What QB's has he had in Cleveland, McCoy? I'd say he'd at least be worth giving a shot at camp.

 

[Joker]

ahem...Paul Warfield and Jerry Rice in their primes couldn't make Murk Sanchez look any better than he is, was or will ever be...thanx, Jet Hater Capital Mgmt Group....

 

[Deus Irae]

ahem...Paul Warfield and Jerry Rice in their primes couldn't make Murk Sanchez look any better than he is, was or will ever be...thanx, Jet Hater Capital Mgmt Group....

.........

 

[fumbrunner]

It was the same with Stephen Hill, whom the Jets drafted. If they can get that kid to run crisper routes and catch the ball cleaner, they're going to have a guy who's 6'4", 220+lbs and runs in the 4.3s making Mark Sanchez or his successor look a hell of a lot better than he really is.

Agreed. and if the pats can land someone with those measurements, who could step into the line up in a year or two, that would be the way to go.

In reality, the Pats had one of the top offenses in history with a) a starting WR injured for the majority of the year and b)TE injuries to both Hernandez and Gronk.

I'd rather take the $5mill+ some of these FAs are asking for and invest that elsewhere.

I wasn't a big fan of Edelman, but he intrigued me this year. He might be short, but plays bigger than his size.