FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning...

[Jetssuck]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

I'd call it a top 5 QB in the NFL performance. Subpar for Manning but far, far from 'poor'.

#2 in yards
#2 in TDs
#2 in completion %

Manning has never lead the league in tds, yards, passer rating, ay/a without Marvin Harrison. He has always leaned on his all-star cast. As evidenced when he fell off the face of the earth after Dallas Clark was lost.

 

[bagwell368]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

I'd call it a top 5 QB in the NFL performance. Subpar for Manning but far, far from 'poor'.

#2 in yards
#2 in TDs
#2 in completion %

Interceptions: 17 (6th worse)

many other stats that Manning shows up with a top 10 as recently as 2009, no mention in 2010:

Yds/Pass Att
Adj Yds/Pass Att
Yds/Pass Cmp
Passing TD %

lowest QB Rating since 2002.

It's called decline.

 

[JJDChE]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

So, you admit, Manning has better stats in many years over Brady due to skill position players? So despite Brady playing 2001-2006 with inferior skill position players, and the weather - Brady in a mere 3 years has been able to outstrip Manning QB Rating over all (never mind playoff results). So that tells us with elite players despite the weather Brady is better. Given how poorly Manning looked in '01 and '10 without his binkies it's pretty clear Manning cannot match Brady in making do with lesser talent. Cool, thanks for coming clearn.

Yes, part of the reason Manning was far superior to Brady, statistically, is because they had better skill position players.

So then, your prior claims that the Patriots are better then the Colts is false?

No, why would it?

Naturally, and you speak of objectivity....

I'm a Patriots fan, A Brady fan and I generally dislike the Colts, yet I'm still arguing on Manning's behalf. There's a whole lot better chance that I'm the objective here than anyone else.

By all means compare from 2001-2010, Manning was paid a good deal more.

Who cares. Doesn't matter. It's not relevant to the discussion of who is the better player.

I know what your point was, but it was more fun making light of your blown point. And my point is more on point then yours. What those two guys or Hadl or Namath or anyone else got paid doesn't matter because it didn't matter, but it does now. In particular in explaining Mannings relative failures in the playoffs.

Again, it doesn't matter. But it's funny that the lame argument that some people have hung their hat on for years has been shown to be totally bogus, now that Brady is in fact the highest paid player in the NFL.

Oh pardon me, a locally grown pest, how charming. Did you vote for Gus Hall for President when he was running just to be difficult?

Sorry, I don't get the reference.

 

[JJDChE]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Interceptions: 17 (6th worse)

many other stats that Manning shows up with a top 10 as recently as 2009, no mention in 2010:

Yds/Pass Att
Adj Yds/Pass Att
Yds/Pass Cmp
Passing TD %

lowest QB Rating since 2002.

It's called decline.

He was one of the best QBs in the NFL in 2010, just not top 2 or 3 like he usually is. It looks like he could be starting to decline. The next year or two will really tell. He is 35 (?) so it wouldn't be that surprising.

 

[Jetssuck]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

I'm a Patriots fan, A Brady fan and I generally dislike the Colts, yet I'm still arguing on Manning's behalf. There's a whole lot better chance that I'm the objective here than anyone else.

This from the guy that thinks the majority of NFL players weren't objective when they voted Brady the best player in football.

 

[bagwell368]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Gotta deal with the BBQ pit, but before I blow for the day. Some of Mannings miracle playoff games:

1/04/03 @ NYJ 14 for 31 TD: 0 Int: 2 Rate: 31.2
1/18/04 @ NWE 23 for 47 TD: 1 Int: 4 Rate: 35.5
1/13/07 @ BAL 15 for 30 TD: 0 Int: 2 Rate: 39.6
1/16/00 TEN 19 for 42 TD: 0 Int: 0 Rate 62.3
1/16/05 @ NEW 27 for 42 TD: 0 Int: 1 Rate 69.3

1-4 with 1 TD and 9 Int's in PM's playoff games under a 70 Rating.

Brady has 3 games under 70 with a 2-1 record. 49.1, 57.6, and 66.4 with 6 TD's and 9 Int's.

Enjoy...

 

[JJDChE]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Manning has never lead the league in tds, yards, passer rating, ay/a without Marvin Harrison. He has always leaned on his all-star cast. As evidenced when he fell off the face of the earth after Dallas Clark was lost.

Or he MADE his all-star cast. Depending on how you look at it.

 

[bagwell368]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

He was one of the best QBs in the NFL in 2010, just not top 2 or 3 like he usually is. It looks like he could be starting to decline. The next year or two will really tell. He is 35 (?) so it wouldn't be that surprising.

10th in QB Rating isn't one of the best, it's the end of the top 1/3 or the top of the 2nd 3rd. Just to clarify.

That is NOT one of the best. That's "also ran", like say his brother.

 

[JJDChE]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

This from the guy that thinks the majority of NFL players weren't objective when they voted Brady the best player in football.

I didn't say that. I said they would have voted Manning #1 in other years. Brady is the best player in football, as of today. It's virtually unanimous.

 

[JJDChE]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

10th in QB Rating isn't one of the best, it's the end of the top 1/3 or the top of the 2nd 3rd. Just to clarify.

That is NOT one of the best. That's "also ran", like say his brother.

Even if you ONLY using passer rating, it's still a pretty good season.

33TDs, 2:1 TD INT ratio, 4700 yds. All top tier numbers.

He still led a terribly flawed team to 10 wins, 4th most points, 4th most yards.

 

[RWayne911]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Manning has never lead the league in tds, yards, passer rating, ay/a without Marvin Harrison. He has always leaned on his all-star cast. As evidenced when he fell off the face of the earth after Dallas Clark was lost.

All-star cast?

One question.

Does the stupidity from you Patriots fan ever stop? Does it ever even come to a halt? The arrogance the majority of you display on this board is comical. Literally showing no regard to the opposing argument is the motto around here, huh?

In 2009, these were Manning's weapons:

1) Reggie Wayne
2) Dallas Clark
3) Pierre Garcon (6th round draft pick, first year starting in Marvin Harrison's place)
4) Austin Collie (4th round pick, started in the slot, and he was a rookie)
5) Addai/Brown (31st ranked running game in the league)

And the Colts primarily run a 3 WR/1 TE/1 RB set. Please don't tell me they don't, because they do. So that means there was two first year starters that were 4th and 6th round picks, a diminishing offensive line that hasn't been good since 2006, a new head coach in Jim Caldwell, and a new offensive coordinator.

That's not even close to "all-star" cast. And what did Manning do? Win the MVP, and took the Colts to the Super Bowl with a 14-2 record, and didn't even lose a game with starters in the entire time until the Super Bowl.

F*ckin clueless, so pathetic.

And last year he played poorly? Please.

Garcon, Clark, Addai, Brown, Hart, Collie, Gonzalez, and MULTIPLE offensive linemen were missing at one point. In fact, the Colts dressed 72 different players last season and we were easily the most injury ridden team in the league.

Also, Manning didn't have same luxury Brady did, with a great offensive line (if they aren't great, then how the F*CK were those running backs doing so damn well last season?), he didn't have the luxury of a healthy backfield or healthy receiving corps.

Imagine Brady losing Welker for the year, Branch missing time, Edelemen not even playing the season (ala Gonzalez), Woodhead/Ellis/Your 3rd RB missing significant time, and Gronkowski or Hernandez (take your pick, which one of them even close to matches Clark's value?) being out for the year after the 4th week.

Let me know how Brady would do then. You guys had a heart attack in '09 when you lost Welker on the last game of the season and put on a pitiful offensive performance vs Baltimore AT HOME, with Brady turning the damn ball over 4 times. You can make excuses, but if Manning turned the ball over 4 times in a home wild card game, you'd have three orgasms within a 1 minute period.

And even with ALL of that in 2010, along with another year of an awful running game (you guys have no idea what it's like to watch your QB hand off to your RB for a 1 yard gain every play) Manning still threw for 4800 yards, 33 TD, and 17 picks. With a 90+ rating yet again.

Some of you need to get some FACTS instead of running off at the mouth with your arrogant opinions. When someone wants to bring facts to the table, FACTS, I'll even spell it out: F A C T S, you're more than welcome to. Simply stating something with no source or statistics to back it up is not a fact.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Or he MADE his all-star cast. Depending on how you look at it.

Manning made all those first rounders? Did he "make" Marshall Faulk and Marvin Harrison?

 

[Jetssuck]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Or he MADE his all-star cast. Depending on how you look at it.

You mean all those first round draft picks?

 

[Jetssuck]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

I didn't say that. I said they would have voted Manning #1 in other years. Brady is the best player in football, as of today. It's virtually unanimous.

Prove that they would have done that.

This is just your attempt to wiggle your way out of an argument fatal to your case that only Patriot fans believe Brady is better than Manning. Patriot fans and the majority of NFL players believe Brady is better.

 

[Fixit]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

In 2009, these were Manning's weapons:

1) Reggie Wayne
2) Dallas Clark
3) Pierre Garcon (6th round draft pick, first year starting in Marvin Harrison's place)
4) Austin Collie (4th round pick, started in the slot, and he was a rookie)
5) Addai/Brown (31st ranked running game in the league)

Imagine Brady losing Welker for the year, Branch missing time, Edelemen not even playing the season (ala Gonzalez), Woodhead/Ellis/Your 3rd RB missing significant time, and Gronkowski or Hernandez (take your pick, which one of them even close to matches Clark's value?) being out for the year after the 4th week.

Let me know how Brady would do then.

1) Yeah, only two future HOF receivers must be tough.

2) You just described what Brady had for the first six years of his career.

3) Dome.

 

[RWayne911]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Gotta deal with the BBQ pit, but before I blow for the day. Some of Mannings miracle playoff games:

1/04/03 @ NYJ 14 for 31 TD: 0 Int: 2 Rate: 31.2
1/18/04 @ NWE 23 for 47 TD: 1 Int: 4 Rate: 35.5
1/13/07 @ BAL 15 for 30 TD: 0 Int: 2 Rate: 39.6
1/16/00 TEN 19 for 42 TD: 0 Int: 0 Rate 62.3
1/16/05 @ NEW 27 for 42 TD: 0 Int: 1 Rate 69.3

1-4 with 1 TD and 9 Int's in PM's playoff games under a 70 Rating.

Brady has 3 games under 70 with a 2-1 record. 49.1, 57.6, and 66.4 with 6 TD's and 9 Int's.

Enjoy...

And if you compare their overall PLAYOFF numbers, this is what comes out to:

Manning:

5,389 yards, 29 TD, 19 interceptions, 63.1 completion %, 7.51 yards per attempt, 88.4 passer rating.

Brady:

4,407 yards, 30 TD, 16 interceptions, 62.2 completion %, 6.46 yards per attempt, 85.7 passer rating.

And to make it even funnier for, look at their 4th Quarter numbers in the playoffs:

Manning:

1189 yards, 6 TD, 5 int, 7.9 YPA, 86.8 passer rating

Brady:

1171 yards, 6 TD, 5 int, 6.4 YPA, 80.2 passer rating

Hilarious. Brady's the most overrated playoff performer in the league, and probably this decade. It makes no sense that a choker, compared to a playoff GOD, can have BETTER and MORE EFFICIENT NUMBERS when you line them up.

And Brady's yards per attempt (YPA) won't make it out of this unscathed either. Those 6.5 YPA's are Chad Pennington-eque. And even with his low risk throws while watching the defense do the majority of the work, he STILL has a lower completion percentage then Manning in the playoffs.

AND that doesn't even count the fact that Manning has played more playoff games on the road! When some of you are ready to retaliate with facts, let me know. This "Manning is a choker" garbage with nothing to back it up is really getting old around here.

 

[JJDChE]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Manning made all those first rounders? Did he "make" Marshall Faulk and Marvin Harrison?

Manning came in in '98

Faulk YFS
1994 1,804
1995 1,553
1996 1,015
1997 1,525
1998 2,227 (Led NFL)

Harrison
1996 64-836-8
1997 73-866-6
1998 59-776-7 (injured: missed 4 games)
1999 115-1663-12
2000 102-1413-14
2001 109-1524-15


Actually, it looks like he did make both of those guys a whole lot better than they were before he came around.

 

[RWayne911]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

In 2009, these were Manning's weapons:

1) Reggie Wayne
2) Dallas Clark
3) Pierre Garcon (6th round draft pick, first year starting in Marvin Harrison's place)
4) Austin Collie (4th round pick, started in the slot, and he was a rookie)
5) Addai/Brown (31st ranked running game in the league)

Imagine Brady losing Welker for the year, Branch missing time, Edelemen not even playing the season (ala Gonzalez), Woodhead/Ellis/Your 3rd RB missing significant time, and Gronkowski or Hernandez (take your pick, which one of them even close to matches Clark's value?) being out for the year after the 4th week.

Let me know how Brady would do then.

1) Yeah, only two future HOF receivers must be tough.

2) You just described what Brady had for the first six years of his career.

3) Dome.

1) LOL at Dallas Clark being in the hall of fame. Also, he's a TE.

2) Branch, Givens, Patten, Dillon, that offensive line, and those amazing defenses aren't even relatively close to what Manning had in 2010 with Blaire White, Taj Smith, Jacob Tamme, Pierre Garcon, and an undrafted RB named Javarris James taking the bulk of the carries. Try again.

3) In Manning's last 3 years, he has had better numbers on the road then at home. So your theory that playing in a dome automatically elevates your numbers with no question is wrong. Try again.

 

[JJDChE]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

Prove that they would have done that.

This is just your attempt to wiggle your way out of an argument fatal to your case that only Patriot fans believe Brady is better than Manning. Patriot fans and the majority of NFL players believe Brady is better.

He was voted all-pro 6 times and MVP four times. Need more proof?

 

[JJDChE]

Re: FINALLY someone national brings up playing conditions regarding Brady and Manning

1) Yeah, only two future HOF receivers must be tough.

2) You just described what Brady had for the first six years of his career.

3) Dome.

Wayne is a long shot. No way in hell that Clark gets in.