Final Roster Projection ?

[Urgent]

On some of the roster competition:

WR - the issue with carrying a large corps here is that none of the true WR play Special Teams, and there are a couple "WR" that are ST leaders in Edelman and Slater. As good as he has looked, I see Stallworth getting squeezed out here.

OL - the reports on Koppen are troubling, and he certainly struggled the last couple years in the middle. Reports and limited viewing of Donald Thomas are positive. Thomas may prove a better option at guard, enabling Connolly to play at center. Koppen doesn't play ST either.

DT - a lot of competition here. Brace has seemed to bubble up from the bottom of the mix. Pryor performed really well when he played, but starting the season on PUP may be the best thing for him and the team. Deaderick played a lot after exiting PUP last year, but has had a pretty quiet camp. Looks hard to cut one of Wilford-Love-Fanene-Deaderick-Brace - and even tighter if Pryor comes off PUP.

DE - the Carter watch becomes more intriguing as we hear strong reports from Jones, Bequette, Cunningham, and Francis. Even without Carter, it's unlikely the team can carry Ninko-Jones-Scott-Bequette-Cunningham, let alone the charge Francis has been making. Very tough cuts coming here. I'd trade Carter for Scott in a second if it happens, but would be less surprised if it doesn't now. And I'd be more disappointed if Cunningham joins the list including Markell Carter, Shawn Crable, Vince Redd, and so forth, as another quick release.

LB - Carpenter has been receiving a lot of attention. His ST background and ability to sub at LB makes the release of White, Tarpinian, and Koutovides less risky. Based on the reviews, I think the team would be far more comforatble starting Carpenter in December than White or the others. Fletcher and Carpenter can play on three or four ST groupings and play well on defense as well.

DB - there is a greater premium on back-up DB's defending the pass, given the evolution of the league. Sterling Moore and Will Allen get a huge benefit here when compared to Barrett, Ihedigbo and Ebner. Moore and Tavon Wilson certainly contribute on ST. Allen as a dime defender offers much more than Barrett or Ebner as a ST missile.

I think the people competing as subs on defense this year offer a better combination of ST and substitute defense than years past. Playing Brown, Ihedigbo, White, and Koutovides on defense was painful. The team should be in a better situation this year when injuries eventually hit.

 

[BadMoFo]

The Pats need more depth at DB than QB, so Belichick trades Hoyer to KC for whatever he wants Romeo and Scott Pioli to give him - they owe him, big time.

Mankins is ready to go.

Shocker: Edelman is out and Jesse Holley is in because Belichick is afraid to go on The Big Show on the day after the game and have to answer to Holley's uncle if he cuts him

Ross Ventrone makes the opening day roster. How is Belichick going to cut him if he's not on the team?

Bobby Carpenter does not make the team - he is a stiff.

Nick Koutouvides makes the team because he can hit and Bob Kraft thinks it will be funny to hear Zo pronounce Koutouvides on the replays.

QB (2) Tom Brady, Ryan Mallett
RB (4) Stevan Ridley, Shane Vereen, Brandon Bolden, Danny Woodhead
WR (5) Jesse Holley, Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney, Deion Branch, Wes Welker
TE (2) Aaron Hernandez, Rob Gronkowski
C (2) Dan Koppen, Ryan Wendell
G (4) Dan Connolly, Brian Waters, Robert Gallery, Logan Mankins
T (3) Nate Solder, Marcus Cannon, Sebastian Vollmer
DE (6) Brandon Deaderick, Chandler Jones, Jonathan Fanene, Jake Bequette, Trevor Scott, Ron Brace
DT (3) Vince Wilfork, Myron Pryor, Kyle Love
ILB(5) Brandon Spikes, Donta Hightower, Dane Fletcher, Niko Koutouvides, Jerod Mayo
OLB(2) Jermaine Cunningham, Rob Ninkovich
CB (7) Devin McCourty, Sterling Moore, Kyle Arrington, Alfonzo Dennard, Will Allen, Ross Ventrone, Ras-I Dowling
SS (2) Steve Gregory, Sergio Brown
FS (2) Tavon Wilson, Patrick Chung
ST (4) Zoltan Mesko, Danny Aiken, Chris Koepplin, Stephen Gostkowski

Total players: 53
Created with Pats Picker: Pats Picker 2012

Chris Koepplin?

 

[Kontradiction]

Not going to overreact to a single TC report, but this has to be a bit concerning:



Hopefully McDonald is ready to step up, because we could need him.

Koppen, to my eye, hasn't been able to match the strength of big DT's on a regular basis since 2009, so this is no surprise. However, let's hope that his reported struggles have more to do with coming back from injury than they do with him just getting older. Because, the way the interior line is shaping up in TC right now, we're going to need him to play well in order to be able to slide Connolly in at RG or LG (depending on Waters' return).

 

[Deus Irae]

Not going to overreact to a single TC report, but this has to be a bit concerning:



Hopefully McDonald is ready to step up, because we could need him.

Don't trust Bedard on Koppen/Connolly

 

[goheels22002]

Chris Koepplin?

OMG. How did Koepplin make the team? I think I thought he was the long snapper because the Patriot Picker had him with the special teamers. Yikes. I knew Lonie Paxton was gone. I guess the guy I need to add is Aiken and dump this guy.

Koepplin hasn't kicked in a football game in five years! What is up with this? Is he somebody's kid or something?

Patriots kick-start former UMass player's career | GazetteNET

You be a Bad Mo'fo', BadMoFo.

 

[Ring 6]

Don't trust Bedard on Koppen/Connolly

Can you elaborate?

 

[PP2]

OMG. How did Koepplin make the team? I think I thought he was the long snapper because the Patriot Picker had him with the special teamers. Yikes. I knew Lonie Paxton was gone. I guess the guy I need to add is Aiken and dump this guy.

Koepplin hasn't kicked in a football game in five years! What is up with this? Is he somebody's kid or something?

Patriots kick-start former UMass player's career | GazetteNET

You be a Bad Mo'fo', BadMoFo.

Koepplin has a very strong leg. He was in camp last year as well and kicked very well, and I think he will be on the shadow roster in case something happens to Gost.

 

[ay-yo]

- with 5 DB's on the field over 50% of the snaps these days I'd like to keep at least 10 DB's, maybe 11. Problem is we don't have that many quality DB's. I'm debating keeping an extra DB / ST (Ihedigbo or Cole) vs. an extra DE / OLB (Cunningham) where we are going w/ the see what sticks approach (Jones / Bequette / Scott). Last year this approach (Anderson / Carter) worked out wonderfully and BB was a genius. But you're not always that lucky and I wouldn't mind having another body there in case one or more of the guys bust or isn't ready this year.

- WR's are seeing the field less b/c of Gronk and AH, I expect the amount of WR's kept to reflect this. 6 won't happen, 5 most likely but 4 is a possibility

with that said here's my roster

ST: 5
Ghost, Mesko, LS, White, Slater

Offense: 24
QB: Brady, Mallet, Hoyer - 3
RB: Ridley, Vereen, Woodhead, Bolden - 4
WR: Welker, Lloyd, Gaffney, Edelman - 4
OT: Solder, Vollmer, Cannon - 3
OG: Waters, Mankins, Gallery - 3
OC: Connoly, Koppen, Wendel, Thomas - 4
TE: Gronk, Hernandez, Shiancoe - 3

Defense: 24
DL: Fanene, Brace, Wilfork, Love, Deaderick - 5
DE / OLB: Scott, Jones, Bequette, Nink, Cunningham - 5
LB: Mayo, Spikes, Fletcher, Hightower, Carpenter - 5
CB: McCourty, Dowling, Arrington, Moore, Dennard - 5
S: Chung, Gregory, Wilson, Allen - 4

 

[goheels22002]

- with 5 DB's on the field over 50% of the snaps these days I'd like to keep at least 10 DB's, maybe 11. Problem is we don't have that many quality DB's. I'm debating keeping an extra DB / ST (Ihedigbo or Cole) vs. an extra DE / OLB (Cunningham) where we are going w/ the see what sticks approach (Jones / Bequette / Scott). Last year this approach (Anderson / Carter) worked out wonderfully and BB was a genius. But you're not always that lucky and I wouldn't mind having another body there in case one or more of the guys bust or isn't ready this year.

- WR's are seeing the field less b/c of Gronk and AH, I expect the amount of WR's kept to reflect this. 6 won't happen, 5 most likely but 4 is a possibility

with that said here's my roster

ST: 5
Ghost, Mesko, LS, White, Slater

Offense: 24
QB: Brady, Mallet, Hoyer - 3
RB: Ridley, Vereen, Woodhead, Bolden - 4
WR: Welker, Lloyd, Gaffney, Edelman - 4
OT: Solder, Vollmer, Cannon - 3
OG: Waters, Mankins, Gallery - 3
OC: Connoly, Koppen, Wendel, Thomas - 4
TE: Gronk, Hernandez, Shiancoe - 3

Defense: 24
DL: Fanene, Brace, Wilfork, Love, Deaderick - 5
DE / OLB: Scott, Jones, Bequette, Nink, Cunningham - 5
LB: Mayo, Spikes, Fletcher, Hightower, Carpenter - 5
CB: McCourty, Dowling, Arrington, Moore, Dennard - 5
S: Chung, Gregory, Wilson, Allen - 4

The NFLPA wanted to add a few players to the roster, especially if there was a move to 18 games. The coaches favored the idea precisely because they wanted more DBs in a pass happy league. It would make sense to go to 55 players so teams could carry one or two more DBs.

 

[bagwell368]

Not a chance in hell. Maybe next year, but not this one.

Especially when you consider the Mankins/probable PUP situation, and the fact that we will likely need Connelly at guard at some point, if not right from the get-go.

Now is not the time to get cute and cut a solid center who has great chemistry with Brady and the offensive line assignments and reads. We have issues with Light's retirement, Mankins' injury, Vollmer's back issue, and the situation with Waters. That's not even taking into account the injury to an up and coming guy like Nick McDonald either.

We're already probably going to need someone like Donald Thomas or McDonald to step up and solidify a roster spot as it is for the interior line...taking away the possibility of Connelly playing guard would make no sense whatsoever.

EDIT: I had not initially heard about Koppen's one on one drill struggles, so that is certainly discouraging to say the least. It would only add to potential problems on the line if we had to keep Connelly at center, if nothing more than lack of options. I hope to see Koppen step it up, but one report doesn't sway me too much..."yet." If Koppen doesn't pick it up then you could be right.

If McDonald wasn't banged up, it would be even more clear IMO. Koppen play has been sagging for several years before his nasty injury. His salary is high. The only way he stays is if he renegotiates way down and accepts a back-up role.

He was a fine Patriot, but, time waits for no one.

 

[bagwell368]

RB (4) Shane Vereen, Stevan Ridley, Danny Woodhead, Spencer Larsen - I like the Bolden story, but it's premature. I'd have to believe that he will give the Pats more value than Branch, and he's not there for me yet.

4 isn't enough. It will be 5. IF Bolden isn't good enough, then a camp cut from elsewhere will get the job.

WR (7) Wes Welker, Brandon Lloyd, Jabar Gaffney, Deion Branch, Donte Stallworth, Julian Edelman, Matthew Slater - I've managed to keep them all. I think Branch is at the biggest risk, but turns out I've got the roster spot to give.

7 is too many. It will be 6, because AH is going to be deemed a WR when his contract is up. Branch is odd man out IMO.

DE (3) Jonathan Fanene, Chandler Jones, Jake Bequette -

The reports are that Fanene will play inside this year.

SS (2) Patrick Chung, Tavon Wilson - Wilson can play SS, FS, CB even LB, but I'll list him here to keep the balance. I am perhaps Wilson's only fan in all of Patriots Nation. I want the kid to crush it, if only to prove once again that Kiper is an idiot...as if it wasn't already obvious. Surprise(?) cut here is Ebner, although I dont see why it should be a surprise. Late round pick, barely played in college, hasn't participated in TC, what makes anyone think that he's got the inside track for a roster spot again?

FS (3) Steve Gregory, Sterling Moore, Will Allen - I love Will Allen as a veteran presence in the secondary, and Gregory feels like the veteran field general that we were missing last season with Moore thrust into the

I really like Wilson, he's a FS, not SS. I don't see Barrett. I'm pretty sure he's the 4th S. 5th S has to be a ST guru.

 

[supafly]

If McDonald wasn't banged up, it would be even more clear IMO. Koppen play has been sagging for several years before his nasty injury. His salary is high. The only way he stays is if he renegotiates way down and accepts a back-up role.

He was a fine Patriot, but, time waits for no one.

Koppen's play thus far has been a real disappointment, possibly the biggest disappointment of all for me. His attitude tonight seems to be somewhat reflective of his realization that he may not make it.

Personally, I still stick by my original thoughts, that Koppen would have to have a tremendously terrible camp not to make it--and that seems to be exactly what's happening so far. It is unfortunate.

Without Koppen, we no longer have the capacity to move Connelly to guard and not suffer too much in the position of center. I suppose that Wendall is a reasonable solution, as he's done it before. McDonald may very well end up starting the yr on PUP, thus saving a roster spot for the first 6-7 games.

I still think that Connelly starts at guard this year though, at least until Mankins comes back and/or the line itself shows that it can handle things with some of the questions regarding it.

 

[JackBauer]

Don't trust Bedard on Koppen/Connolly

Perillo:

Conversely, center Dan Koppen suffered through some more struggles.

Official Patriots Football Weekly Blog | Paul’s Calls: Wednesday night observations

Howe:

Love dominated Dan Koppen in one-on-ones, and it was a tough night all around for the veteran center.

BostonHerald.com - Blogs: The Blitz» Blog Archive » Brandon Spikes’ injury, several fights highlight Patriots’ sixth practice of camp

 

[supafly]

Perillo:



Official Patriots Football Weekly Blog | Paul’s Calls: Wednesday night observations

Howe:



BostonHerald.com - Blogs: The Blitz» Blog Archive » Brandon Spikes’ injury, several fights highlight Patriots’ sixth practice of camp

It sucks to see that happening. I don't blame Deus for not fully trusting in Bedard's opinion, as I have seen other opinions on different players that have been 100% opposite. The play last night from Spikes comes to mind when Bedard concluded that "he was lacking in intensity and energy." (paraphrasing)

We quickly found out that other writers had seen it totally differently, stating that Spikes brought a newfound energy with him, almost immediately.

I guess we'll have that though, that's why I don't pay too close of attn about any particular subject until a clearer pattern has developed, but I think that we're seeing an unfortunate pattern quickly developing with Koppen. It could even be perceived that his attitude is starting to show his realization that he has lost a step or two, and that he is in danger of not making the team, but that is still somewhat speculative at this point.

Sad to see it possibly end like this for him though.

 

[Deus Irae]

Perillo:



Official Patriots Football Weekly Blog | Paul’s Calls: Wednesday night observations

Howe:



BostonHerald.com - Blogs: The Blitz» Blog Archive » Brandon Spikes’ injury, several fights highlight Patriots’ sixth practice of camp

I wasn't saying that he was right or wrong. I'm just suggesting that you not trust him on that duo. As a matter of fact, what I saw of Koppen tonight didn't impress me at all.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Source: 2012 Patriots Roster Projection | NEPatriotsDraft.com - 2013 NFL Draft


Danny Aiken and Nate Ebner are no shoe-ins either. Both could easily be cut.

If he doesn't, it'll only be because the Pats sign another LS in a surprise move.

If the past dozen years have shown anything, it's that BB values that position enough to dedicate a roster spot to it, no matter how many budding LSers he has on the roster.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

If McDonald wasn't banged up, it would be even more clear IMO. Koppen play has been sagging for several years before his nasty injury. His salary is high. The only way he stays is if he renegotiates way down and accepts a back-up role.

He was a fine Patriot, but, time waits for no one.

IIRC, his salary isn't that high if he doesn't end up as the starter.

 

[supafly]

IIRC, his salary isn't that high if he doesn't end up as the starter.

Right, if I remember correctly, there is some kind of clause involved for sure.

Since they just signed him, I don't see any kind of renegotiating going on. One would have to assume that they were well aware of all possible scenarios.

I really thought he'd have to do horribly not to make the team, seeing as how we'd currently benefit from having Connelly as a guard for now. At this point I just hope that Wendell or McDonald can take over the center role, thus allowing Connelly to still be used as a guard for awhile.

I guess it doesn't matter that much, but Koppen doing so poorly does surprise me. Like someone else said, it may still be due to the leg a bit, as he seems tentative on some level. Definitely something to keep a very close eye on as TC progresses though.

 

[JackBauer]

I wasn't saying that he was right or wrong. I'm just suggesting that you not trust him on that duo. As a matter of fact, what I saw of Koppen tonight didn't impress me at all.

Fair enough

 

[mgteich]

Gallery is probably a better option as a starter than Wendell or McDonald. IMHO, he was hired to start if Mankins or Waters couldn't go.

Right, if I remember correctly, there is some kind of clause involved for sure.

Since they just signed him, I don't see any kind of renegotiating going on. One would have to assume that they were well aware of all possible scenarios.

I really thought he'd have to do horribly not to make the team, seeing as how we'd currently benefit from having Connelly as a guard for now. At this point I just hope that Wendell or McDonald can take over the center role, thus allowing Connelly to still be used as a guard for awhile.

I guess it doesn't matter that much, but Koppen doing so poorly does surprise me. Like someone else said, it may still be due to the leg a bit, as he seems tentative on some level. Definitely something to keep a very close eye on as TC progresses though.