Felger's Report card

[Deus Irae]

The fact that Felger is an A-hole doesn't mean he doesn't know what he is talking about, it just means he is an A-hole. While there are players who constantly come up big, Ellis consistently comes up small. There is a lot riding on his ability to play, and throughout his career he hasn't been able to prove that he can. On the plus side what a great nick name

And he makes excuses why he can't play. I would have a lotr more respect for him if he just took a beating and admitted he made another bone headed mistake, but he always finds an excuse to hide behind.

Indeed, injuries which require surgery are no excuse for any drop in play quality. That Tom Brady guy should be cut immediately for his performance in the Super Bowl. That sissy couldn't even shake off a middling ankle injury. And Neal? That wuss still isn't practicing. We know it's not because of injury, because those are just excuses.

 

[spacecrime]

Let me ask you Vince Lombardi, what would you do based on what you've seen so far this preseason ???

Your problem, Marty Morningweg, is that you think decisions should be based on watching preseason games and listening to Randy Cross, Marshall Faulk, etc.

Throughout the regular season and the playoffs, BB puts his players in the best postion to succeed. Your mistake, Dave Wannestadt, is that you think the same is true of the preseason.

My thought is that BB delieberately does not game plan to win. He gam plans to put players into a position which causes them to have to react and adjust, EXACTLY BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT IN THE BEST POSITION TO SUCCEED. He thereby gets to see which players will react better when they are in a real game and the wrong defensive scheme/offensive play is called.

He wants every player to do his best, but that does not mean he makes it as easy as possible for the players. On the contrary, I believe he puts obstacles in their path by calling out schemes inappropriate for the game situation.

If you watched the Colts-Bills game, you saw Dungy doing the exact same thing.

I would hold off on making any personnel judgments, Matt Millen, at least until you understand what the preseason is used for. (Bad teams try all-out to win games to build their confidence, good teams use game situations to get better for the regular season - the final score is less important than the training effect.)

 

[JSn]

Let me ask you Vince Lombardi, what would you do based on what you've seen so far this preseason out of these two CBs ???

Based on the Pre-Season, we couldn't beat last year's Dolphins. See ya in September.

 

[BradyToMoss]

Your problem, Marty Morningweg, is that you think decisions should be based on watching preseason games and listening to Randy Cross, Marshall Faulk, etc.

Throughout the regular season and the playoffs, BB puts his players in the best postion to succeed. Your mistake, Dave Wannestadt, is that you think the same is true of the preseason.

My thought is that BB delieberately does not game plan to win. He gam plans to put players into a position which causes them to have to react and adjust, EXACTLY BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT IN THE BEST POSITION TO SUCCEED. He thereby gets to see which players will react better when they are in a real game and the wrong defensive scheme/offensive play is called.

He wants every player to do his best, but that does not mean he makes it as easy as possible for the players. On the contrary, I believe he puts obstacles in their path by calling out schemes inappropriate for the game situation.

If you watched the Colts-Bills game, you saw Dungy doing the exact same thing.

I would hold off on making any personnel judgments, Matt Millen, at least until you understand what the preseason is used for. (Bad teams try all-out to win games to build their confidence, good teams use game situations to get better for the regular season - the final score is less important than the training effect.)

Ah, I understand, those 15 yard Fernando Bryant "zone-based cushions" were all by design and BB wanted it that way to see what kind of reaction time Fernando had on coming out of his back-pedal breaks. I see, I got it. The same thing with Ellis, I got it. OK, well if that's the case, then I can honestly sit here and tell you now that if BB were testing all 3 of these guys in this capacity that Wheatly still beat the other two hands down.

Baltimore's juggernaut offense moved the chains in front of Fernando with ease, I didn't even see Bryant in the picture on some of those sideline routes. Same with Philly and TB. If this was all by design, then I think we all got some answers.

 

[JSn]

Didn't one of our DB's say Bill was basically just throwing them out there without much game-planning to see what they're made of? I'm pretty sure I'm not making that up.

 

[oldskool138]

EXACTLY BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT IN THE BEST POSITION TO SUCCEED. He thereby gets to see which players will react better when they are in a real game and the wrong defensive scheme/offensive play is called.

He wants every player to do his best, but that does not mean he makes it as easy as possible for the players. On the contrary, I believe he puts obstacles in their path by calling out schemes inappropriate for the game situation.

BB wanted to improve on his butt-chewing technique so he had Hanson punt the ball inbounds with 15 seconds left in the half. Brilliant!

Also, he wanted to see how many sacks it would take to make Cassel hobble off the field and say "No mas!".

 

[spacecrime]

Ah, I understand, those 15 yard Fernando Bryant "zone-based cushions" were all by design and BB wanted it that way

What's your alternative? That BB wanted them to press, and said/did nothing when they lined up wrong every play for three entire games?

 

[spacecrime]

BB wanted to improve on his butt-chewing technique so he had Hanson punt the ball inbounds with 15 seconds left in the half. Brilliant!

Also, he wanted to see how many sacks it would take to make Cassel hobble off the field and say "No mas!".

You sound like the Brady to Moss guy.

Let me ask you both:

What is the best way to judge the relative worth of individual players?

a) To prepare a scheme where teamwork and subterfuge is used to gain an advantage?

b) To not gameplan and leave each player work without the aid of an appropriate scheme, or better yet, an inappropriate scheme.

The first choice is best for winning games, in part because you can work to each player's strength and mask their weaknesses. But this is exactly what you do NOT want to do in evaluating individual players.

You have to expect that the team with the best gameplan will have a huge leg up to win that game, and will look like a Juggernaut, as bradytomoss said.

But the Bills looked like a juggernaut compared to the Colts over the weekend, and you know damn well that will switch when the regular season starts.

Don't get depressed about preseason games. Remember that since 2005 the Colts have the worst preseason record in the NFL and the best regular season record in the NFL. COlts players are going to look bad, out of position, etc etc during preseason. Wait until week 1 to see the real COlts and the real Pats.

Or continue to panic, piss and moan that the team that went 18-1 and returned about 95% of its starters is somehow now a reincarnaiton of the '76 Bucs.

 

[oldskool138]

What is the best way to judge the relative worth of individual players?

a) To prepare a scheme where teamwork and subterfuge is used to gain an advantage?

b) To not gameplan and leave each player work without the aid of an appropriate scheme, or better yet, an inappropriate scheme.

The first choice is best for winning games, in part because you can work to each player's strength and mask their weaknesses. But this is exactly what you do NOT want to do in evaluating individual players.

This isn't some 80's comedy/drama where the really mean professor/drill Sargent sets up his students/soldiers to fail so they will bond together.

Sure, you don't want to empty your playbook in the pre-season but letting your (presumptive) #2 QB take lick after lick isn't exactly a smart way to play the game...pre-season or not. And it certainly not a good way to build his confidence.

I'm not broken up about the pre-season losses but I would have liked to see some improvement in one aspect of their game. And chances are, I'm not going to see it Thursday.

 

[sebman2112]

Yeah, Ellis Hobbs is so bad that one of the best coaches ever to coach in the NFL decided not to make an effort to bring back their #1 CB and elevate Hobbs to that position. Oh. Wait....

Exactly, and to go even further, do you really think Ellis would be a multi-year starter at CB in BB's system if he truly sucked? Think about it, in 2005 Duane Starks sucked, and who came in as a starter during the second half of the season to replace him? Then rookie Ellis Hobbs.

Again, the guy's been a starting CB since midway through the 2005 season, and the Patriots intend to use him as their #1 CB this year, yet he sucks? Maybe one of these geniuses should tell BB how much of an idiot they truly think he is, because that's what they're basically saying. Also, I'm sick of people calling Ellis out for being to "short". He's about a half an inch shorter than Asante, and a number of starting CB's are around the 5'9" - 5'10" range, so it's a pretty stupid thing to harp on, especially since he's registered a 42" vertical.

Some examples of other CB's in that height range: Lito Sheppard (5'10"), Ronde Barber (5'10"), Dre' Bly (5'10"), Sheldon Brown (5'10"), DeAngelo Hall (5'10"), Aaron Glenn (5'10"), Antoine Winfield (5'9"), Mike Jenkins (5'10"), Nathan Vasher (5'10").

 

[patsgo]

Your problem, Marty Morningweg, is that you think decisions should be based on watching preseason games and listening to Randy Cross, Marshall Faulk, etc.

Throughout the regular season and the playoffs, BB puts his players in the best postion to succeed. Your mistake, Dave Wannestadt, is that you think the same is true of the preseason.

My thought is that BB delieberately does not game plan to win. He gam plans to put players into a position which causes them to have to react and adjust, EXACTLY BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT IN THE BEST POSITION TO SUCCEED. He thereby gets to see which players will react better when they are in a real game and the wrong defensive scheme/offensive play is called.

He wants every player to do his best, but that does not mean he makes it as easy as possible for the players. On the contrary, I believe he puts obstacles in their path by calling out schemes inappropriate for the game situation.

If you watched the Colts-Bills game, you saw Dungy doing the exact same thing.

I would hold off on making any personnel judgments, Matt Millen, at least until you understand what the preseason is used for. (Bad teams try all-out to win games to build their confidence, good teams use game situations to get better for the regular season - the final score is less important than the training effect.)

it seems mr. spacebrain you have a lot of issues with alot of people, is that why everyone ignores you and your uneducated posts???

 

[Pat the Pats Fan]

I think the guy/gal that called it won the WEEI contest and spent $10k to get the chance to call the play and sit in Bill's office and have a conversation with him.

Based on the play, was it Asante Samual that won the bid?

 

[Displaced - Fan]

Ah, I understand, those 15 yard Fernando Bryant "zone-based cushions" were all by design and BB wanted it that way to see what kind of reaction time Fernando had on coming out of his back-pedal breaks. I see, I got it. The same thing with Ellis, I got it. OK, well if that's the case, then I can honestly sit here and tell you now that if BB were testing all 3 of these guys in this capacity that Wheatly still beat the other two hands down.

Baltimore's juggernaut offense moved the chains in front of Fernando with ease, I didn't even see Bryant in the picture on some of those sideline routes. Same with Philly and TB. If this was all by design, then I think we all got some answers.

Asante was the worst for those cushions. It use to drive me nuts to see a 2 and 5 and he'd be 10-15 yards off. So I do think the bend and don't break D has something to with it. So yeah it is quite possible it was by design that Bryant was so far of the line.

 

[BradyToMoss]

Exactly, and to go even further, do you really think Ellis would be a multi-year starter at CB in BB's system if he truly sucked? Think about it, in 2005 Duane Starks sucked, and who came in as a starter during the second half of the season to replace him? Then rookie Ellis Hobbs.

Again, the guy's been a starting CB since midway through the 2005 season, and the Patriots intend to use him as their #1 CB this year, yet he sucks? Maybe one of these geniuses should tell BB how much of an idiot they truly think he is, because that's what they're basically saying. Also, I'm sick of people calling Ellis out for being to "short". He's about a half an inch shorter than Asante, and a number of starting CB's are around the 5'9" - 5'10" range, so it's a pretty stupid thing to harp on, especially since he's registered a 42" vertical.

Some examples of other CB's in that height range: Lito Sheppard (5'10"), Ronde Barber (5'10"), Dre' Bly (5'10"), Sheldon Brown (5'10"), DeAngelo Hall (5'10"), Aaron Glenn (5'10"), Antoine Winfield (5'9"), Mike Jenkins (5'10"), Nathan Vasher (5'10").

First of all, I think we can all agree that BB and Pats "had their hands tied with Asante" and didn't budget out the kind of money he wanted. It wasn't like BB said, "Oh wait, we have that stud Ellis Hobbs the III, we're cool, Asante can cash out and leave". It was the same thing with Deion, they put a dollar value on the player/position relative to everything else and just weren't going to pay the kind of money each of these guys wanted. It had nothing at all to do with the fact that BB was all warm and comfy with Ellis Hobbs, let's be real here.

Sebman, you know you football, look, be honest. We've seen 2 NFL-weak offenses and one mediocre offense in Philly light up these CBs. I mean you saw those soft zone cushions, Bryant wasn't even in the same area-code on some of those sideline-out patterns. We all know the Pats played a vanilla D, but c'mon you expect better than what we saw, 1st down after 1st down, completing 3rd conversions at an alarming rate, you had to expect better than that.

My point is that I think Wheatley should start over Bryant, I think he's a better CB.

 

[E Belichick Unum]

Some examples of other CB's in that height range: Lito Sheppard (5'10"), Ronde Barber (5'10"), Dre' Bly (5'10"), Sheldon Brown (5'10"), DeAngelo Hall (5'10"), Aaron Glenn (5'10"), Antoine Winfield (5'9"), Mike Jenkins (5'10"), Nathan Vasher (5'10").

The biggest difference is those guys can play, Ellis just thinks he can play.

I don't understand what BB sees in Ellis. He tackles well, but that just means he is getting picked on. Again, every time I see Ellis, he is 10 yards off of the reciever, or getting run past on a fly pattern. He gives up too many first downs. As my screen name indicates, I have absolute faith in Bill Belichick but the man is human and has made mistakes before (Tommy Vardel), I just would like to see a better set of DB's back there.

Ellis is tough kid, I have never said he wasn't, and he was put in a bad position in the Super Bowl, but the fact remains that he got used and abused and gave up a very bad touchdown. You can blame it on coaching, but I can't believe that the coaching staff would give up the outside and have Ellis covering the middle. That is not a play that the Giants ran all season, their bread and butter was the short corner pattern, the same play that they scored on. Even if Ellis had played it correctly I am not sure he could have stopped it, but we will never know because he caughed up a fur ball.

 

[BradyManny]

I don't understand what BB sees in Ellis. He tackles well, but that just means he is getting picked on. Again, every time I see Ellis, he is 10 yards off of the reciever

OK, let's try thinking this through for a second b/c a lot of us have made this mistake and the rush to judgment in the past. If you see Ellis Hobbs 10 yards off a receiver...don't you think BB sees Ellis Hobbs 10 yards off a receiver? And if BB sees Ellis Hobbs 10 yards off a receiver and didn't want him 10 yards off a receiver, wouldn't BB tell Hobbs not to play 10 yards off a receiver or play someone other than Ellis Hobbs?? So, following this logic...couldn't we agree that maybe Belichick is asking Hobbs to play off the receiver to prevent a big play and cover more ground in the deep third he plays, given the Pats play a lot of zone coverage.

 

[Sicilian]

OK, let's try thinking this through for a second b/c a lot of us have made this mistake and the rush to judgment in the past. If you see Ellis Hobbs 10 yards off a receiver...don't you think BB sees Ellis Hobbs 10 yards off a receiver? And if BB sees Ellis Hobbs 10 yards off a receiver and didn't want him 10 yards off a receiver, wouldn't BB tell Hobbs not to play 10 yards off a receiver or play someone other than Ellis Hobbs?? So, following this logic...couldn't we agree that maybe Belichick is asking Hobbs to play off the receiver to prevent a big play and cover more ground in the deep third he plays, given the Pats play a lot of zone coverage.

Exactly. Couldn't agree more.

And while we're being honest with ourselves, our CBs are NOT getting "torched" by these offenses. The offenses are doing what all coaches want their teams to do, and what we PRAISED Tom Brady for doing through his early career: Taking what the defense gives them. It's basically the governing principle of the West Coast offense.

When I start seeing Ellis get burnt on a deep route or outjumped in the end zone (I don't count the Burress TD, because he should never have been left on an island on that play), then I'll condemn him. He's asked to play it safe, so he does. If the offense has the patience to make these short plays, what the DC needs to do is get more pressure and penetration at the line, not start gambling and playing closer with the DBs.

 

[BradyToMoss]

OK, let's try thinking this through for a second b/c a lot of us have made this mistake and the rush to judgment in the past. If you see Ellis Hobbs 10 yards off a receiver...don't you think BB sees Ellis Hobbs 10 yards off a receiver? And if BB sees Ellis Hobbs 10 yards off a receiver and didn't want him 10 yards off a receiver, wouldn't BB tell Hobbs not to play 10 yards off a receiver or play someone other than Ellis Hobbs?? So, following this logic...couldn't we agree that maybe Belichick is asking Hobbs to play off the receiver to prevent a big play and cover more ground in the deep third he plays, given the Pats play a lot of zone coverage.

Really ? So, what you are saying is that BB loves seeing Ellis give up 3rd and 8's on sideline outs pretty consistently and enjoys seeing offenses move down the field at will against our defense and move the chains? This is by design? Let's let Ellis hang back, we'll bend, give them those automatic 1st downs on Ellis, but we'll stiffen up in side the redzone, this is what BB wants from his corners ?

With Asante, you could do this because Asante had the sense, speed and quickness to break on those outs after he gave up 3 or 4 of them and take it to the house for 6, that's not the case with Ellis, he can't do that and hasn't done that his entire career. If you notice, all of Ellis' picks (not that there have been alot) mostly come from overthrown balls or deflections, none of his picks come from a great read or a fantastic break on a football. That's the sign of a nickel CB and that's what he is. Or at best a lower-end #2 CB.

 

[Sicilian]

That's the sign of a nickel CB and that's what he is. Or at best a lower-end #2 CB.

Do you have any idea what constitutes the skills needed to be a nickel CB? Or do you just play Madden a lot and figure your third best CB on an arbitrary rating system should always cover the slot?

Second, if the play calls for a cushion on the outside with the hopes that the line gets some pressure on the QB, then yes, I think that's what BB wants. The problem occurs when the line DOESN'T get that pressure, and the QB has all day to scan and pick the best target.

You'll notice that Ellis played very well his rookie year when two things were true:

1) He was healthy.

2) The front seven was getting more consistent pressure with a healthy Seymour.

 

[E Belichick Unum]

OK, let's try thinking this through for a second b/c a lot of us have made this mistake and the rush to judgment in the past. If you see Ellis Hobbs 10 yards off a receiver...don't you think BB sees Ellis Hobbs 10 yards off a receiver? And if BB sees Ellis Hobbs 10 yards off a receiver and didn't want him 10 yards off a receiver, wouldn't BB tell Hobbs not to play 10 yards off a receiver or play someone other than Ellis Hobbs?? So, following this logic...couldn't we agree that maybe Belichick is asking Hobbs to play off the receiver to prevent a big play and cover more ground in the deep third he plays, given the Pats play a lot of zone coverage.

I understand that the Patrios play a pretty soft zone close to the line, and it drives me nuts, but in the past they have been able to defend the swing pass using some zone blitz schemes or a linebacker in coverage. I also understand that the lack of pressure that the DL is putting on the QB isn't helping the defense, but Hobbs is getting beaten on quick out patterns. He has got to step up and make a stop. If he isn't fast enough to do it then he isn't fast enough to play corner. Asante gave big cushions, but had the quickness to make up for that cushion, Hobbs never seems to make up that cushion. I think part of the problem is that in the past we have always had a pretty dominant corner on one side forcing the opposition to focus on the other side. Without that dominant corner the defense just can't cover the whole field.

I hope I am just over reacting to the preseason but in the past BB put almost as much value in winning preseason games as regular season games. With the offensive line being as injured as it has been I can understand keeping Brady out, but the defense has been pretty healthy. We can win games 17 to 13 but we can't win if the defense gives up 15 play scoring drives.