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Felger- Pats should lock up young talent

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by shatch62, Sep 14, 2006.

  1. shatch62

    shatch62 Rookie

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    The other day on his radio show Felger was saying the Pats should be locking up their young core guys a few years before their rookie deals are up. He seems to have no issue with letting the older guys go (he mentioned Willie McGinest) but the Givens and the Branchs should be paid to stay. He thinks if the Pats had given Branch a new contract 2 years ago that it would have saved them money in the long run and he would still be here.

    While this sounds great in principal, the team would be in a lot of trouble if it made a habit out of redoing contracts with multiple years left on them. Everyone would be coming forward and wanting to get a new contract that is in line with what the free-agents of the world just signed. Also, what would they have paid Branch?

    Say after the 2004 S.B. the team went to him an offered a new deal. It would have been far less than they offer last year. Look at his career numbers after the third year:
    Year TM G Rec Yards Y/R TD
    2002 nwe 13 43 489 11.4 2
    2003 nwe 15 57 803 14.1 3
    2004 nwe 9 35 454 13.0 4

    Granted he had several GREAT playoff games but he still would have been a player that had yet to play a complete season, never had more than 57 receptions, 803 yards or 4 TDs in a single season. How much would the team have paid for that? Say they gave him a 5 year deal for $12 million with a $4 million dollar bonus. Then he goes out, puts up a career best 78-998-5 season. He then watches Givens sign a 5 year $25 million dollar deal with an $8 million dollar bonus. You don’t think he would be complaining that he was underpaid at this point. Maybe he would not have pulled a T.O. but he would not be happy and that would have been a nightmare for the Pats as well. The Pats did the right thing. The only crappy part of this situation is the timing of it all.

    On a side not, I have no idea why Daniel Graham is making plans for a big free-agent payday. The guy is basically a second T on the line. He has never put up any numbers that is going to make him huge money
  2. SamBam39

    SamBam39 Rookie

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    I don't recall anyone asking felger what he thinks other people should do.

    I think he should look in the mirror and worry about what he should do.

    what a fem.
  3. RayClay

    RayClay On the Roster

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    #75 Jersey

    So he would have skipped on the new contract. What's the difference?

    Felger should see if some team will hire him as GM. Then he can see if he does better than Piolichick.

    After all, they fail to win the Super Bowl every other year. There's room for improvement.:rolleyes:
  4. Pat_Nasty

    Pat_Nasty Rookie

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    Huh!?

    Felger is a sportswriter and sports radio on-air personality. Whatever one may think of his football acumen, one cannot deny the fact that Felger isn't just "asked" what he thinks other people should do, it's his job -- its what he gets paid for.
  5. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! Rookie

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    Felger missed the part about the Pats trying to give Branch and Givens contract extensions two years ago, and one year ago, and now. Didn't happen.

    If we are going to make Grambo an offer, I think now would be the time because the Pats Front Office is very Pro-Active, although that simple fact has escaped Felger's notice.
  6. 5 Rings for Brady!!

    5 Rings for Brady!! Rookie

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    Well, then, I guess the question is why is he such a liar and a B.S. artist when it comes to covering the Pats?

    Is he paid to be 100% wrong all the time? I thought that was Borges' job. :cool:
  7. hwc

    hwc Rookie

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    Exactly.

    The missing ingredient in Felger's analysis is that these players do not care where they play. Doesn't matter at all. They don't care about winning. Or, their legacy in the game. Only one thing matters, show me the money. If the New Orleans Saints offer one penny more, they are gone.

    The second part of this equation is that another team will always offer more money. It doesn't matter what the Pats offer. Whatever offer is made, the player's agent simply starts shopping that offer sheet around the league. Because the Pats are viewed as a winning organization, some fool GM, somewhere, will top the Pats offer. Short of just making absurd pre-emptive offers (like offering a mid-tier #1 possession receiver Marvin Harrison money), there is nothing the Pats can do to sign most of these players.

    As fans, the only sane way to view the system is the way Belichick consistently explains it. It's like a college system. Bring 'em in. Get four years out of them. Bring in some new guys. Assume that all of them leave when their "eligibility" is up after four years and then you won't be surprised or disappointed. In the rare instance when a player actually values playing for a consistently competitive franchise or sees an opportunity to establish a long-term legacy, consider it a bonus and rejoice. But, don't count on it.

    Of course, Daniel Graham will leave in free agency. That's the system. So what? He's not the last tight end who will ever play for the Pats. They didn't quit making tight ends the year he was drafted.
  8. JoeSixPat

    JoeSixPat Rookie

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    I'm open to this - and am not worried about setting a precedent

    If anything the precedent is that those players that deserve extensions will get one and those that don't will not.

    I wouldn't expect them to be very liberal with such a policy - but its also a unique situation given the available cap money right now.

    The real question would be to figure out how much of a bonus any player might need to see to give up pending free agency when there stands to be a lot of money to be made on the open market as the cap goes up.
  9. hwc

    hwc Rookie

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    Immaterial. There is NO sane bonus that would keep players from getting to free agency, by hook or by crook, at the earliest possible moment. They know that there is always someone who will pay more when the bidding starts.

    The player who just left would have rejected the Seahawks offer if the Pats had offered it to him in May. He had already made up his mind. Why? Because he knew that he could then shop the Pats offfer around the league (no matter what it was) and somebody would tack another few bucks on top of it. That's the system. No point in cryin' about it.
  10. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Felger's current take on all this would be of interest were it not for the fact that he is the same "insider" who warned us all two years ago that stone hands Graham had financial delusions of grandeur as did Givens, that Koppen was not inclined to grant a home town discount to a team other than his home town Eagles. And he obviously is too busy pontificating these days to have noted that the Pats did try to offer Deion an extension right after XXXIX and he was insulted by that approach.

    Believe me had we signed Koppen and Samuel to long term deals last March Felger would have spent the entire month of October lambasting the Patriots for abandoning a tried and true formula and facing the consequences of being stuck with a Center who after being carried off the field might never make another snap effectively and a CB who they should have known was a flash in the pan overperformer in 2004. Revisionist hindsight is Felger's forte these days.

    Covering all that baseball on his ESPN show for the last year has warped his thinking. He doesn't seem to understand or appreciate the implications of operating within a cap any more (at least for radio ratings purposes) and wants everyone to just go buy him a champion god damn it.

    If there were some viable mechanism for making Felger accountable if after following his astute advice it blows up in the teams face, I bet he would choose to just STFU. Or actually Felger the ESPN radio entertainer would then just cackle and say how freakin' stupid were they to listen to anything I said! :D
  11. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Bravo - best post of the POST-DEION CRISIS PERIOD. :rocker:

    Belichick likes 'em hungry for winning championships, not hungry for the Feed My Family Sweepstakes. That is why he will mine the aging FA market as well seeking guys who have enough money to count happily in retirement and have nothing left to drive them save a missing ring. And there are an ever increasing number of players in that pool which grows with the cap.
  12. hughthehand

    hughthehand Rookie

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    I agree that certain players are a lost cause, you cannot offer them enough to stay.

    It is definitely not true for everyone. Look at the way the Eagles do it. The recognize when a players is a guy they want to keep, and they throw away their rookie deal with 2 or 3 yrs left on it. Just recently they have done this with Sheldon Brown, Lito Shepperd and Shawn Andrews. 3 solid players that all had 2+ yrs on their rookie deal.

    The Eagles front office is clearly one of the best in the league. I think the Pats could take some things they are doing and incorporate them into our strategy.

    Wouldnt you love to see a guy like Eugene Wilson get a new contract right now? Or Dan Koppen?
  13. kolbitr

    kolbitr Rookie

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    Koppen is one player I would expect the Patriots to make a significant offer to. The organization highly values linemen, Koppen is an excellent center, and he, even more than Deion, is a close friend of Brady's. Assuming he is able to demonstrate his health is back to where it was prior to injury, Koppen will see an atttractive offer from NE.

    Samuel I am less sure of...but how much would he command on the open market?

    Graham is a player whose worth is very high to the Patriots, and who will be courted by other teams. Given that Watson will not be looking for the big payday very soon, perhaps they will go offer Graham hard...I would like to see that, myself, as I think he brings a lot to the line, and could be used more effectively in the passing game (perhaps).
  14. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I don't honestly know. Koppen looks to be OK, but there was serious question following his injury last September that he would ever be the player he appeared poised to become. Wilson like Samuel appears to be a player who truly benefits from playing on this team (when it's healthy) in this system. How much do I pay them to keep them off the FA market? I think the jury was out in Foxboro on their value here last season after fairly abyssmal 2005 regular season performances. What are guys worth to us who show flashes of brilliance or appear to be solid starting performers when everything else on the team is hitting on all 8 cylinders, but who have shown a tendancy to struggle mightily when it is not?
  15. hwc

    hwc Rookie

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    The Pats will do their homework and make legitimate offers to Koppen, Graham, and Samuel based on their production, their grades at their positions, and comparable deals around the league.

    But, the Pats aren't going to get all misty-eyed and make ridiculous offers. They aren't going to offer Gonzales money to Graham because he is not Gonzales. He's an excellent blocking tight end who contributes some, but not breathtakingly, in the passing game. I don't know. The average of the top 10 TEs this season is about $2.7 million. Shockey's making $2.7 million. Alge Crumpler is making $2.4 million. So maybe somewhere in the $2.5 millon to $3 million range, figuring some salary inflation with the new cap structure.

    Doesn't really matter. Whatever the Pats offer, somebody else will top it. Graham's agent will make sure he is plenty disgruntled about the Pats trying to screw him, and he'll head off somewhere for the benjies. Detroit? Cleveland? The Jets? Doesn't matter. He'll be overpaid and released three years down the road. Who knows, maybe the Pats will pick him up to close out his career in the role he was suited to in the first place (see Tebucky Jones).
  16. SoonerPatriot

    SoonerPatriot Rookie

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  17. SoonerPatriot

    SoonerPatriot Rookie

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    We don't know what Graham wants contract wise. Givens did indeed have delusions of financial grandeur. His new contract proves it. Koppen hasn't been re-upped yet either. Where exactly is he wrong on these players? He was right on Givens. Koppen and Graham are TBD.
  18. JustWinBrady

    JustWinBrady Rookie

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    Graham is better than you think and he will get his money too. Don't be surprised if the pats franchise him at 3M+ next year.
  19. Miguel

    Miguel Patriots Salary Cap Guru PatsFans.com Supporter

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    IMO, the franchise tag for TEs next year will be in the 4 to 4.5 million range.
  20. Oswlek

    Oswlek Rookie

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