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FDR Covered Up For Stalin's Katyn Massacre

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by IcyPatriot, Sep 20, 2012.

  1. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Saw this story and thought it relevant due to our discussions of our country dancing with the devil to suit it's needs.

    Katyn massacre: US hushed up Stalin?s slaughter of Polish officers, released memos show* - New York Daily News

     
  2. RI Patriots fan

    RI Patriots fan In the Starting Line-Up

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    Another example of the gutlessness of FDR who imprisoned and robbed citizens of the country he was sworn to protect.
     
  3. Titus Pullo

    Titus Pullo Banned

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    yeah, cool story... unfortunately "gutless" is not a word 99.99% of intellectually honest human beings would ever use to describe FDR.

    From the story (which no doubt some people didn't read at all):

    The declassified documents also show the United States maintaining that it couldn't conclusively determine guilt until a Russian admission in 1990

    So, FDR being cautious in maintaining a vital ally in the most perilous war in history was a "gutless" omission.

    Bush/Cheney altering known intelligence is "acting on the best information at the time."

    Noted.

    The FDR hatred from revisionist cons really is telling. Because surely a conservative president at the time would have unilaterally beaten the Nazis, but only AFTER solving the Great Depression ... you know, by way of privatizing the world. Retarded.

    This just in: The Russians invaded Poland at the same time the Nazis did!! FDR kept it from the world!!! Oh noes!!
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2012
  4. DocHoliday

    DocHoliday In the Starting Line-Up

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    I hate when people politicize distant presidents with the current lens of our politics.

    In my opinion, current politics really only applies back to Carter/Reagan.
     
  5. RI Patriots fan

    RI Patriots fan In the Starting Line-Up

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    FDR didn't "solve" the Great Depression....he prolonged it. Just ask his Treasury Secretary of almost 12 years Henry Morgenthau. Morgenthau had a private meeting on September 9th, 1939 with Representative Doughton (Chairman of the powerful U.S. House Committee on Ways and Means), Representative Cooper (House Ways and Means) and John Haynes (Under Secretary of the Treasury). All were Democrats and all supported FDR.
    Let's see what they had to say (from the Meeting Minutes) about FDR's success with "solving" the Great Depression (FDR library, Henry Morgenthau Diary, Microfilm Roll #50):


    Morgenthau: "We were sitting in the parlor and I think I said to the President that we feel that business is getting worse and that one of the ways to improve business is to shift some of the taxes."

    "Now gentlemen, we have tried spending money. We are spending more than we have ever spent before and it doesn't work. I want to see this country prosperous. I want to see people get a job. We have never made good on our promises. We have never taken care of them"

    "I say that after 8 years of this administration we have just as much unemployment as when we started."


    Doughton: "And an enormous debt to boot!"


    Morgenthau: "And an enormous debt to boot! We are just sitting here and fiddling and I am just wearing myself out and getting sick. Because why? I can't see the daylight. I want to see some daylight and I don't see it.


    http://www.burtfolsom.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/Morgenthau.pdf


    Does this sound like men who felt that FDR had "solved" the Great Depression?
    So these Big Time Democrats who supported the New Deal and helped pass programs like Social Security knew that the New Deal was a failure.


    As to FDR's gutlessness, all you need to do is look to his Executive order 9066 which forced 120,000 people of Japanese ancestry (most of whom were American citizens) at gunpoint to leave their homes and businesses as well as all their belongings. They were forced to live in Concentration camps for 4 years under armed guard.
    Some died in the camps from lack of medical care as well as exposure to the elements or were shot for "not obeying orders".
    This was such an injustice against the American people that Congress passed the Civil Liberites Act of 1988 giving restitution to the victims of FDR. Even President Clinton (a long time FDR admirer) sent a personally signed letter with reparation checks noting a "lack of political leadership" on the part of FDR.


    Children of the Camps | PRESIDENTIAL LETTER


    Even George Bush, when confronted with 9/11, exhibited more political leadership than FDR
    and stood by Muslim Americans. FDR, unlike George Bush, sold out Japanese Americans for political gain.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2012
  6. DarrylS

    DarrylS PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I agree, the rhetoric of political party activities in the 50's and 60's as mirrors of today's current parties are difficult to compare, as the parties and how they are covered are completely different animals...

    The composition, philosophy, coverage and just about everything else has changed.. so it is like comparing raisins and grapefruit..

    Even comparing Carter/Reagan to today is poor also, due to the influx and the news recycling every 5 minutes.. never mind the hysteria and half truths of blogs..
     
  7. Titus Pullo

    Titus Pullo Banned

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    But then, I didn't say he did. Read my post again, slower this time.

    The war build-up ended the depression, ... a depression caused by irresponsible expansion and massive financial fraud, but whatever. We can get into Keynesian vs. Rand if you like, but I can tell already neither of us will be converted, so let's spare the forum the boredom.

    Gee, is that all they said about him? Your sample size is awesome.

    Again, I didn't say he solved it. Learn some nuance.

    LOL... depends on what we're talking about. It clearly facilitated decades of prosperity for enormous swaths of the U.S. ... Hopefully we won't have to review just because you're yet another con who can't ever budge an inch on anything, ever. Zzzz

    OK, but how do you apply "gutless" to that scenario? I'd say it took some brass ones, despite being horribly misguided and perhaps reactionary.

    But it is funny listening to cons rationalize this way regarding a real, centralized enemy that actually had a navy. Especially after a decade of boogeyman creation and loud applause for secret rendition programs, racial profiling, waterboarding and fake outrage over mosques that are "too close." What a joke.

    No, sorry, he didn't. Not even remotely close, and you just embarrassed yourself with that statement.

    I'd dispute that.

    Yes, of course. :rolleyes: Because he wanted a fourth term despite being on borrowed time. Must have been political.

    Like I said. Cool story. But your biases are clearly clouding rational thought.

    I'm so perpetually bored by cons' collective dismissal of Franklin's legacy. I used to find it amusing, but it grows more and more absurd the more I hear Adam Smith cultists go on and on about what a PoS Roosevelt was. In their view, to credit FDR with ANYTHING is like blaspheming the God of big business. Insisting how he "prolonged" a global financial condition that ... what? ... was ultimately created by cultists of finance - the very kinds of people who adhere to conservative fiscal policy today and want everything deregulated, privatized and untaxed. ... Such epic fail. It's the same today, where cons put a stop-watch to Obama's attempts to clean up the world-shaking mess their ideology of fraud and deregulation created.

    So while his economic record is a matter of great debate, FDR's overall body of work is not. In the end, FDR (along with Churchill) saved the modern world... because they were able to convince Joe Stalin that Hitler was his biggest threat, not Western capitalism. He also reached out to the Jews, helped pave the way for the modern state of Israel and went to significant lengths to resettle other victims of persecution (the ocean liner St. Louis not withstanding).

    The New Deal was a success, and gave the common man a tiny bit of ballast in a world of corporate greed and ruthlessness. Deal with it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2012
  8. wistahpatsfan

    wistahpatsfan Pro Bowl Player

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    #75 Jersey

    The only exception is when we get words of wisdom which fit our own points of view. My favorites being Ike's and Washington's farewell addresses. Of course, the warnings to us from those great Americans have always gone unheeded and if applied to today's corporatocracy (if that's a word) would be labeled as anti-American or anti-something-we're-supposed-to-be-in-favor-of.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2012
  9. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Pro Bowl Player

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    FDR really is no different than any other president in that when handed certain issues, like the depression, the answers are actually quite easy.........if the government is not prepared to do something big at that point (at least here in the US), then there really is no value to it, and that's what people see it as.

    FDR took the biggest steps in turning the government into 'big brother' for both good and bad. agree or disagree, something had to be done domestically to deal with the depression. never had an issue with that end. the different manner in which the european war was handled from the japanese war is something I have na issue with. he sent soldiers to europe only to allow them to be butchered through the incompetence of UK's montgomery rather than hand the directive to eisenhower to make this a strictly US-run operation. he should have let animals like patton loose on the continent and the war would have been over sooner, and the iron curtain would have been 1000 miles east.

    top it off, he was a total ***** in any and all negotiations during a time when the outcome of the war was clear. the philosophy should have been 'without the US, the continent would have been speaking german, and if the US is going to donate hundreds of thousands of its own men to clean up this totallly euro-mess, then get out of the way and let the bigger dog tear the smaller dog apart. but it had to be some stupid team building exercise in brotherly hand holding so that half of europe could wind up being soviet instead of german. all that death to wind up giving up half of the continent anyway was a pathetic shame. FDR was to too tired to deal with things in the end and the world situation was compromised because of it.

    on the global front, much of what he gained domestically was given away globally
     
  10. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Pro Bowl Player

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    It was......he did it primarily on the premise of 'keeping our boys out of the european war'. How'd he do?
     
  11. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    #12 Jersey

    I don't care how much big brass ones spin is put on it. What FDR did to those people was, ignorant, racist and taught us that it was ok to be that way. I'm bothered that we are so quick to rationalize it and just look the other way. "Misguided and reactionary" :singing: In this day and age where checking the background on someone involved in a crime is the most racist thing in the world, that 120,000 people were kidnaped and thrown into internment camps is soft-soaped into an "overreaction" is confusing. Cool story:( I'm bothered that people that bring it up are marginalized and ridiculed for calling it gutless. The lens hasn't changed much in that regard. The 911 terrorists weren't cowards either(sarcasm). FDR was no terrorist, and he did some good things but that doesn't take it away. I think it belongs near the top of the worst thing we ever to our own people in this country.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2012
  12. RI Patriots fan

    RI Patriots fan In the Starting Line-Up

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    Decades of prosperity......from the NEW DEAL....lol. Now that is comical. :D

    Do you think that maybe the USA basically being the greatest economic power not bombed into oblivion after the war might have had a little to do with our prosperity and not the blood sucking path to Socialism that FDR helped put us on which today is destroying our country?


    As to the Morgenthau quote....."sample size"??? That's your response? Really? Do you really think that it was common for Democrats to criticize FDR and then keep a record of the conversation?
    That's the beauty of this record because it pulls back the curtain on the Great and Powerful Oz and shows how well-contacted members of both his own staff and his own party saw that the New Deal wasn't working. Do you really think that the Chairman of the powerful Ways and Means Committee and the Secretary of the Treasury were having this meeting in a vacuum? Do you really think that they would have a meeting like this if everyone else in the Democratic Party felt that the New Deal was working just fine?
    Of course not......obviously there was wide spread concern that the New Deal wasn't working or a meeting like this would have never taken place and the Secretary of the Treasury certainly wouldn't have said that he was "sick" because he couldn't see any daylight ahead for the country.


    Really...."brass ones"......for putting children in concentration camps? I think extreme criminal cowardice and a lack of leadership is more fitting. But then again, if Bill Clinton says something, can we really believe it to be true?

    Enemy with a navy.....um, they were American citizens in most cases and mostly children. How exactly were they the "enemy"? You're comparing what Muslims have experienced in the last decade after 9/11 to what Japanese Americans experienced in FDR's concentration camps? Wow....talk about woeful ignorance. Now, you're embarrassing yourself.

    If you're bored by what conservatives have to say about FDR then don't response. Trust me, no one will be the lesser for it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 21, 2012
  13. Patsfanin Philly

    Patsfanin Philly Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #95 Jersey

    Actually that was his slogan in 1940, when he ran for his 3rd term......
     
  14. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    FDR Covered Up For Stalin's Katyn Massacre

    The Obama Media covers stuff up every day.
     

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