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FBI to senate judiciary: "Enhanced interrogations don't work."

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PressCoverage, May 13, 2009.

  1. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    oops... that sound? another neocon enthusiast's talking point swirling down the drain...

    'Enhanced interrogations' don't work, ex-FBI agent tells panel


    WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The contentious debate over so-called "enhanced interrogation techniques" took center stage on Capitol Hill on Wednesday as a former FBI agent involved in the questioning of terror suspects testified that such techniques -- including waterboarding -- are ineffective.

    [​IMG]
    From left: Sens. Lindsey Graham, Sheldon Whitehouse, Patrick Leahy and Dianne Feinstein listen Wednesday.

    Ali Soufan, an FBI special agent from 1997 to 2005, told members of a key Senate Judiciary subcommittee that such "techniques, from an operational perspective, are ineffective, slow and unreliable, and harmful to our efforts to defeat al Qaeda."

    His remarks followed heated exchanges between committee members with sharply differing views on both the value of the techniques and the purpose of the hearing itself.

    (continued)...
    Last edited: May 13, 2009
  2. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    But they do initiate regression....
  3. FreeTedWilliams

    FreeTedWilliams Moderator PatsFans.com Supporter

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    First ask yourself, why is he an ex-FBI agent????

    Second LOOK AT HIS NAME!!

    Third ask the people of LA who are currently not dead because of the interrogations, if they work?

    Look Nancy Pelosi KNEW ALL ABOUT THIS AND SHE DID NOTHING ABOUT IT. So we all know that nothing will be done to her, so all of this is yet another giant liberal circle jerk which will end up as NOTHING!

    How many FBI agents did they go thourgh, before they found this one Arab to say this?
  4. Mabeyitstrue

    Mabeyitstrue Banned

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    Saw this from a mile away, well now comes the excuses from the right should be a good thread:p
  5. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    Could your reactionary post be more predictable?

    The man was the main interrogator of KSM, Zabedah, etc. I believe he's slightly relevant, regardless of your weak-as-hell attempts to brand him as untrustworthy because he has a Muslim sounding name. My god, does your argument grow more and more pathetic each week.

    The LA Tower plot was planned and foiled in late 2001, early 2002... KSM was captured and interrogated in March of 2003. How could his interrogation have possibly thwarted a plot that had fizzled out a year before then?

    Keep propelling the myth, torture fan. Meanwhile, the main guy involved just admitted to the Senate that his enhanced techniques never worked.
  6. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    ............. and some people in the
    CIA
    say they do. Who's telling the truth. :confused2:

    By the way, the title of the article would be more accurate if is said "Ex-FBI employee to senate judiciary: "Enhanced interrogations don't work."

    Also, read the article closer. Sounds like this guy had a slight bend against the CIA from the start. Bottom line is we will NEVER know.
    Last edited: May 13, 2009
  7. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Ali is full of sh!t.
  8. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So he interrogated KSM, Zabedah and whoever. We know that they revealed nothing until they used EIT.

    Translation this guy failed and now he says that what actually worked doesn't work, and you take this at face value, beautiful....:rolleyes::singing::singing:
  9. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    Well, not necessarily. There doesn't seem to be a consensus among interrogators as to whether it works or not. If they were really known to be ineffective there would have been little incentive to use them and risk the legal recriminations.

    I am glad to know the Obama admin won't be routinely using these techniques, though I wonder if they will use them under extreme circumstances, and if you look back at when they were used in the past if the Obama admin would have made the same decision (looking at it in the light of having a high value capture and little knowledge of what may be coming next). If we truly believe they are ineffective then we can confidently say only the field manual will be used going forward no matter who the prisoner is or what operational details they have. I'm not sure what Obama has said about if he'd do it with the "ticking bomb" scenario, but I do know John McCain (who knows a little something about how effective torture can be) had said that he WOULD torture to save Americans under the emergency scenario, but basically admitted it was illegal and said he'd accept the consequences of ordering it. That to me at least implies that the methods can be effective, the argument then becomes weighing the morality of torture against the morality of saving innocent lives.

    Its definitely not a clear-cut issue to me, I can see arguments both for and against.
  10. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    A minor point but I thought he was only involved in the interrogation of one guy, Zubeydah.

    Also FTW what the heck does his name have to do with it? I don't like the implication of that comment.

    Lastly reading the article it is interesting that this guy claims HE was the one to get all the useful info from the subject, and that the others were basically standing in his way. Now that may have been just how it went down, but it is a little suspicious that he comes off as the hero and the others as incompetents. Wonder what the others involved in the interrogation would say about his version of events?
  11. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    Let's not distort. This guys was NOT PRESENT when those methods were used. He's also stating his opinion. He is FBI, not CIA. CIA claims that in SOME of the instances, they actually did. As it says in the article;

    The guy is a bit player.
  12. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    It is very well established that it does not produce useful intelligence. This has been thoroughly debunked with credible sources many, many times on this site. There are threads chock full of info if you use the search.

    At this point it is amazing that people are still trying to justify torture.
  13. PatsWSB47

    PatsWSB47 Rookie

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    Makes me wonder why Pelosi was ok with it:rolleyes:
  14. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    The way interrogation works is that you try to get the guys on your side. Once you start inflicting pain the guy will clam up and start to fight you. It's natural that an interrogator will find such a "technique" to be an impediment.
  15. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    This site doesn't have ANY CREDIBLE sources in this area. You post stuff that support your claim, others post stuff that support thier claims. As far as credible sorces, I doubt any of us here can claim to be that.

    Most are justifying torture (at least I'm not). I just am not crying that we used it on a few POS terrorists (whether it worked or not).
    Last edited: May 13, 2009
  16. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    Deflect, deflect, deflect. The buck stops ... somewhere ... over ... over ...... there.
  17. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    Baloney, I post stuff from the CIA, FBI and other experts. Everybody else posts stuff from Dick Cheney, a famous liar.
  18. reflexblue

    reflexblue PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    If they did nothing wrong then you won't mind if someone looks into it will you. After all the RT. spent 7-8 years and $40 millon having Ken Star chase Clinton around. Just to catch him wetting his cigar.
    Last edited: May 13, 2009
  19. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    But most people thinks IT'S A WASTE OF TIME. Why waste the money there, when we can spend it bailing out the banking or auto industry. :rolleyes:

    I support the Messiah's decision to "move on".
  20. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Rookie

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    No, that does not make you a credible "source". It makes you a parrot for your view.

    Here's one from the CIA you missed.
  21. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    Not that anyone's surprised, but clearly you didn't read the link. That's completely the opposite of what the man said. He said they were getting information before the torture began, then Zubeydah clammed up after torture. Please read slower.

    What's funny is that I've seen this thread on four message boards now. And the default response by the torture fans is "with a name like Soufan, how can he be trusted?"

    Too funny. They all think alike.
    Last edited: May 13, 2009
  22. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    There are at least 3 ways interrogation can work. 1. The "friend" approach that you outline above. 2. "good cop/bad cop" where you either threaten or actually do something bad, then send in the "friend" to be positive and promise a stop once information is given. 3. Inflict pain until the subject "breaks." My own opinion (formed without any actual experience of course) is that all 3 can be effective. Dick Cheney claims they were effective, and while his statements carry ZERO weight his request seems reasonable, to release classified documents supporting the claim that they did in fact work in the past. If nothing is released we can't take what Cheney says seriously, but I would like to at least see the material he is referencing. It would be cool if the admin would follow through and release this info, they want to be more transparent and this would be a great opportunity to show they are.
  23. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    And that is 100% wrong by anyone who says that.
  24. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    You're well behind the times. This has been thoroughly debunked.

    And the timelines for any info from KSM and attacks on LA are false. KSM was captured in 2003, the LA attacks were "foiled" in 2002.

    This is exactly why I said read the other threads. And no, this is not about being a parrot, it's about getting at the truth. Turns out, anytime anybody really looks into the right-wingers' claims they turn into nonsense.
  25. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    Well now, that's not interrogation, that's torture.
  26. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    Yes it is, but your point was that torture (waterboarding, etc) doesn't work. I think it does, so do some in CIA/FBI (definitely no consensus), so do some who were actually tortured (McCain). Those methods, barbaric as they are, are at least sometimes effective, counter to your argument that they aren't.
  27. apple strudel

    apple strudel Banned

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    The best case scenario from torturing somebody is that you get a single piece of evidence which has to be thoroughly vetted and has an extremely high likelihood of the victim just saying anything to make the pain stop.

    An interrogated suspect, or a source, should provide a steady flow of information. After one or two attempts you can even trust the veracity of his claims since you've vetted things. So at best, you've shut off a potential source of continual information, in exchange for highly dubious information. In pain or extreme discomfort a person will say anything.
  28. Stokes

    Stokes Rookie

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    I agree with that. In some cases though you are either only looking for 1 piece of information and/or do not have the time to build the rapport necessary for standard methods to work. Depends on what the goal of the interrogation is.
  29. godef

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    OK, here are my choices of who to believe:

    1. an ex-FBI agent
    2. Harry "it's a racist plot" Boy
    3. FreeTedWilliams

    So... who do I choose?... :cool:
    Last edited: May 13, 2009
  30. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So where did you pick up YOUR vast expertise on interriogation techniques?? Are you with the FBI, CIA or mil intel??

    Or just an armchair general?? :singing:

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