Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Box_O_Rocks, Jul 28, 2009.
Patriots: Tight end still a weak spot - Framingham, MA - The MetroWest Daily News
Well, if he's looking for "the second coming of Ben Coates," then we're all SOL. I think Baker and Smith add a lot of variety to the passing and running games. Much stronger at the position going into this year.
One of these days, someone is going to have to delineate what's expected of tight ends, especially in a round-by-round comparison.
Here's ANOTHER jamoke who wants 22 all pros, and its a "weakness" if they don't. I couldn't believe my eyes when he stated that the Pats are "light" at the TE position. I wonder how many teams have 3 guys who have caught at LEAST 40 passes from the TE position in a season. How many freaken passes do you think will be available when the basic Set is 3 WRs and you have to feed the Moss/Welker/Galloway monster.
Then he commits a pet peave of mine by calling Watson a disappointment JUST because he was the 32nd pick in the draft. You'd be amazed how less of a "disappointment he would have been if he'd been the 33rd pick.
Watson has been a victm of OUR high expectations more than BBs. Sure we all loved his "measurables, but the fact remains that Watson has improved his blocking every year. He's a "decent" receiver, when he gets a chance, which hasn't been a lot since 2007. Yeah I know his flaws. He isn't a smooth route runner. He doesn't have great hands. So he isn't Tony Gonsalez but he is very competent all round STARTING TE, who has tended to do the most important thing BB asks....to "do your job". Not to OUR expectations, but to HIS. This ISN'T FF. Gonzales wouldn't put up big numbers either if he were the 3rd or 4th option, or even worse constantly blocking.....or simply not on the field.
THis dolt brings back every TE that has been through NE the past DECADE to somehow try and prove his terribly weak point. The Pats are SOOOOO much better of than the rest of the division it isn't funny. Can anyone name the TE who plays BEHIND Dustin Kellher. Can you even NAME the Miami STARTING TE let alone his back ups. I know I can't. The Fact is the Pats have 3 PROVEN STARTING TEs that can play the complimentary role that is expected of the TE in this high powered offense. They all can block, play HB, go in myriad motions of an HB. And despite him trying to hang Thomas with a lifelong albatrose, because he made a single bonehead play, he remains the TE with the most potential as a pure receiving TE. (I wonder how he'd feel if he was reminded just one of his bone head columns, let alone all of the dumb ones he's written )
Far from being "LIGHT", the Pats TE situation is PROBABLY the deepest position on the squad. What OTHER team in the LEAGUE (Oh God, I'm starting to shout) has 3 guys with the experience and ALLROUND talents of Smith/Watson/Baker. There might be several teams with better individual TEs, but not 3/'4 man corps. Please inform me...or rather Glen Farely.
Donaldson's precamp column was trite and lazy, but this one is just play WRONG.
The TE position is a little cloudy at this point, but it is still WAY ahead of last year and has plenty of capable options...
...I wouldn't expect great things from them, just EFFECTIVENESS from them when asked for it...
I attended a Dinner with the Head Coach banquet in june (really cool event) and BB said this was the Best TE group he has ever coached.
Brown, NE's former DL claimed off waivers by Tangini, they let Bubba Franks go and signed a kid named Owens.
I believe Martin was Miami's #1 last year, I haven't read any in-depth team profiles for Miami yet for this season.
this is kind of funny that you brought up the dolphins in your points..
they have 2 tight end's im sure you heard of last year that had better seasons than watson did..
anthony Fasano and David Martin.. yes our 3rd TE Joey Haynos wasn't such a big help last year but we drafted John Nalbone this year and he is a superb blocker with some speed..
Dolphins T.E.'s last year had 67 Receptions 926 yards 11 td's and Fasano is a good blocker..
I would agree with him. Why would anyone think this is a weak position? We added something we havent had in a long while. Blocking TEs.
Those are good numbers, but you have to concider that those TEs were Chads BEST options. Even you'd admit you were weak at the WR position. Your TE's HAD to make catches. On the other had OUR WR had OVER 220 catches between the 3 of them. Where were the catches going to be there for a QB with Cassel's experience who wouldn't be looking for his 3rd or 4th options. So OUR TEs had about half that production, but its Understandable. I also noted that you neglected to individualized their catches, so I will assume that NEITHER hit the 40 mark. Something that ALL three of our TEs have done in the past.
I contend that if we had swapped TEs, the production wouldn't have changed much. OUr guys would have had a lot more with Chad, and your guys would have had a lot less trying to share the ball with Moss or Welker. If Ted Ginn grows up and decides to become a professional, then it will be harder for your TE's to get the same production.
One must also consider that Cassel didnt know we had any TEs for half of the season
That was a little severe. I'd agree we haven't got the greatest value out of the position, and we formerly had a bit of a revolving door, but we always have pretty good talent there.
Thomas is fine if not injured, though he might be done in that regard. Don't you love when a guy is way down the list of options, then gets injured and all of a sudden he's the Titanic? He made one stupid penalty.
Anyway, we do need the TEs because there's no FB, I think the acquisitions were good and Watson is an average to good TE, just not probably worth what he'll ask $.
If they keep trying to find the right TEs, they'll succeed. I only worry about positions where they don't seem to try to find guys they couldn't find on waivers.
maybe the problem is you wont admit your weakness's on offense.. T.e.'s and Rb's
Considering the T.e.'s only caught 30 balls each.. doesnt mean to me that they were a Big focus on the offense..
when the 3 main wide outs Averaged 55 catches each.. (yes 25 more, almost double) of what the T.e.'s caught so your points arnt very good..
my point was miami has a better T.e. core than New england.. that was my only point..
i could say the same about the T.e.'s in new england as you did about the Receivers in miami
If Benjamin Watson Finally Grew Than it would be harder for wes welker to get the same production...
and if the miami dolphins didnt have any tight ends.. than there receivers would of had 900 yards? to split between the 3 of them..
considering we had an 800 yard receiver and to 600 yard receivers that wouldnt be so bad now would it??
but we all know its not true and im typing stuff to be useless and make you hopefully realize how ingorant your post sounds..
I have to ask this Who is Glen Farley, i've never heard of him, how long has he been covering the Pats? I've been reading this site since '03 or '04 and i don't remeber ever reading any opinions by him before. He sounds new, and if hes new he sounds awfully cridical for being new. And i'm not talking soley about the TE position review.
He's been covering the Pats for several years if memory serves.
Pot, meet kettle. I understand you are a Fin Fan with the need to convince Patriot fans how wrong they are, so your posts need not be super logical, but just speaking in general football terms, you are mistaken.
Unless you have an all-pro TE like Gonzales where the majority of big plays are designed for the TE position, the only time you have TEs or RBs catching significant passes conpared to WRs is when you WR corps is weak.
Chicago has the same issue.
There have been a few years when the Pats have had issues on offense. This year isn't one of them.
Hope you enjoyed 2008. It was a magical season.
Learn how to SPELL!!
I guess it has to do with persepctive..to this writer..it's a big weakness, to the Coach, it's a lot different. I will go with what the coach thinks and have opinions about the other.
Apparently Farley would have us believe that the only way to judge a tight end's worth is by his number of receptions; if he did not have a career high in catches last year then he needs to be replaced; and since 7th round draft picks did not turn in to pro bowlers that is proof that Belichick has no idea what he is doing in the draft.
Fasano was their #1.
I think the TE position is strong. Sure, none of them are pro bowlers but Smith and Baker were starters on their former teams. Watson and Thomas don't see the ball very much because Welker and Moss are better options. Of course, it would be nice for the Pats to have a superstar TE, but it obviously isn't a need. In the end, with the WR's the Pats have, I'd take 4 decent TE's instead of 1 superstar TE with zero depth.
Jerry Jones is a... :confused2:
No kidding. We have more depth and talent at TE this year than we have at any other time since Belichick has been here.
i really don't think you understand my points at all
the other guy (i forgot his name) said that Nobody has heard of any Tight ends in the Division other than Dustin Keller,
The Dolphins had 2 Tight ends with Comparable Seasons to Keller,
1 with better numbers 1 with worse.
The patriots have the 3rd best Tight ends as a unit in the Division.
And with Fasano having less Catches than Jabar Gafney and having more production, I wouldnt say that fasano was a big part of the offense, unless your saying that Jabar Gaffney was a big part of the pats??
Gaffney was a key part of the offense, as was Ben Watson - they were essentially starters from the perspective of NE's frequent 3 & 4 WR formations. Teams were unable to ignore them because Cassel would find them when Moss and Welker were covered.
I'd forgotten Fasano was traded to Miami, he definitely falls into the key player classification for Miami.
The TEs in this division are a pretty interesting bunch.
NE and Mia both have fairly balanced TEs on their rosters, decent receivers, decent blockers, they can move and aren't too limited to any one role. I think the depth tips to NE's side as they enter camp.
NYJ really only have one semi-proven receiving TE, the others on roster are unknown or limited. This could be a serious weak spot for QBs who might need to use the TE as an outlet receiver.
Buffalo has a couple fairly balanced, no-name TEs and the rookie Nelson whom I liked in the draft. If Owens can play well enough to draw coverage from Evans, the TEs could play a stronger role this season if the LBs are left to cover them.
Of the four teams, only the Jesters might be struggling if their receiver situation needs more TE help.
Separate names with a comma.