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Fan Panic

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by lillloyd, Nov 2, 2011.

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  1. lillloyd

    lillloyd On the Game Day Roster

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    I was going to come in here and make a quick "good game, good luck the rest of the way" type post. But I lingered a bit, and was strangely relieved to see that your boards our no different than ours after a loss. Which is to say: a handful of level heads taking the long view, and a handful of VERY vocal fans ready to cut and fire everybody.

    I would urge those of you in the latter category to take a couple of steps back from the ledge, for the following reasons:

    • You just lost a nearly meaningless midseason game. You've proven you can win in Pittsburgh over the years, so home field tiebreakers mean little. And despite all of the hype over this matchup over the last decade, the winner of this regular season game when Brady plays has never actually gone on to win the SB...you're actually better off *losing* in this regard.

    • You're forgetting your own history. Not just '04, when you had a terrible loss at Pitt midseason and rebounded to win it all...but even last year, when you morphed from a nice team into a dominant one over the last half of the year. A lot can change in a *single* week in the NFL, let alone 9 weeks, and with your coaching staff I have little doubt that you'll address your defensive issues and improve significantly by the end of the year.

    • You're forgetting NFL history. It's been a long, long time since there was a wire-to-wire juggernaut that won the Super Bowl without MAJOR problems or doubts at some points during their seasons. Last year GB sustained a ton of injuries and barely made the playoffs; in '08 Pitt featured one of the worst OLs to ever make a Super Bowl; in '07 the Giants nearly started 0-3 and nearly fired Coughlin; in '06 the Colts featured an almost historically bad run defense down the stretch...the list goes on, but the point here is that these problems were arguably much worse than your single, midseason 6 point loss.

    • You don't need your defense to become dominant...you just need it to become competent on the back end. That's not a huge leap. With just an average defense, your team will be favorites to get back to the SB, because your offense is so explosive. (I have no doubt that BB will find schemes to counter the press coverage we deployed Sunday).

    • Losing in Pittsburgh, when we're playing extremely well, and when we *surprise* you with a new scheme (hell, I was positively stunned with the press coverage!), is hardly something to go off the deep end over. If we meet again in the playoffs, I (along with a lot of other Steelers fans I imagine) will still be extremely nervous about it, because I know that BB will now have tape on Sunday's wrinkles, and will develop effective counters to them.

    • Bad losses tend to overemphasize strengths and weaknesses when reality is somewhere in between. Yesterday's effort notwithstanding, the Patriots still have a dominant offense, and their defense will likely improve. Pittsburgh, on the other hand, still has significant issues in their OL and potentially their secondary to overcome, even if they appeared much improved and played extremely well yesterday.

    • There's no true dominant team in the NFL this year. Everyone's flawed. Even Green Bay has major defensive issues. I don't think it's time for many teams to start conceding that they can't make serious noise come playoff time if they can get hot, let alone the Patriots.

    Your fanbase is probably one of the few in the league that's as spoiled...er, not used to losing, as ours is. After losses, our posters want to fire Arians, Tomlin, and even Lebeau, gut the roster, and start over. We kill the front office for every missed pick, as if we're supposed to hit on every single one, and often prematurely ("Bustamalu" was Troy's nickname his first year LOL). Anything less than complete season long dominance is a massive disappointment, so we overreach with massive, categorical conclusions drawn from a single game.

    So sadly it's not just you. (Fan Panic...Everybody's doing it! :( )



    lillloyd
     
  2. neuronet

    neuronet In the Starting Line-Up

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    #87 Jersey

    Great post, wait for the Chicken Littles to argue why you are wrong in this case :)

    Great game Sunday, by the way. We got outcoached, out-motivated, out-everythinged. It sucked.
     
  3. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    some times you get the bull...some times you get the horns...that's life in the NFL

    thoroughly enjoyed your posts last week, Lil Lloyd...your input is always welcome here
     
  4. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    This has to be one of the best posts by a non-Pats fans I've seen in forever. I had a few moments after the game where I was like "boy, we're in trouble". I sobered up, had a little time to reflect and then felt less crappy.

    We lost a mid-season game to an A1 franchise. I bash the squeelers constantly and can do the "can't stand those guys" rivalry stuff with the best of em. But the truth is, we lost to another great NFL team so out-schemed and out coached us. We have to fix the issues that caused the loss, but there is no shame in the loss itself.

    Thanks for your words of wisdom. Good luck the rest of the year out, until of course we meet in the playoffs. ;)
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2011
  5. naF staP

    naF staP Third String But Playing on Special Teams

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    Great freaking post, OP! Well done. Good to get some insight from the outside and also good to see a true sportsman not rubbing in that win.
     
  6. TheBostonStraggler

    TheBostonStraggler In the Starting Line-Up

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    Well spoken, level headed post along with a nice show of class. The only knock is that another team's fan has to provide a voice of reason against a tidal wave of hysterical, over emotional, spoiled Patriot fans.

    The Patriots defense, among other things, have earned their criticism. Where it gets pathetic is after one loss to one of the top AFC teams on the road equals the absurd way over the top doom.....even a chorus of 'fire BB'. Fire BB? The human race is doomed (figured I'd add some over the top rant of my own).
     
  7. Wilfork#75

    Wilfork#75 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Very good post. I just re-watched the game and I didn't really see anything to panic about. I think the biggest issue with the defence, especially in the first half was the play calling, which I think was brought about by a lack of confidence in the secondary. This defence is built around disguise, and in the first half in particular there was none. When we showed blitz, we blitzed and Ben just dumped it off to Miller over the middle. When you blitz that many in zone coverage there is always going to be big holes in the zone, so it needs to be disguised. In the second half I think they did a better job of this, with the LB's showing blitz then dropping into zones which was much more effective. However this showed the other problem with the defence, the safety play.

    I don't think BB has any confidence in our safeties at the moment, which is having an effect on our scheme. I think because BB is so worried about getting beat deep he had the corners play and even softer zone than usual, meaning the Steelers could take 4-7 yards whenever they wanted on a short comeback. It also meant our LB's were dropping deeper than usual allowing Ben to dump it off short to a RB or TE for a short gain. While this cuts off the big plays, for a patient offence like the Steelers were, it just mean they slowly worked their way down the field. This also kept Brady off the field and lead to the lopsided T.O.P.

    While the defence has some obvious deficiencies (safety play, LB'er coverage) I think the key to this defence improving is BB gaining more confidence in the defence as a whole. We won't play Mike Wallace every week so I think the corners will play tighter in the future. But if we get beat deep, thats football, if we play scared we will lose.

    I trust BB will get us back on track and I expect the defence to step up bigtime next week. I think there are three ways to fix the problems this defence has.

    1. They could trust that they can get to the QB with only 4 guys and continue to play a very soft zone. Possible, they looked o.k. against the Steelers only rushing 4.

    2. They could go back to press man coverage. Unlikely, they tried that earlier this year and I don't think currently have the personel for that.

    3. They go back to what BB built 3 Superbowls on- Disguise. This is what I'm betting on and this is what I think will be the most effective. Trust who you have and go with what you know. We may not have the personel to have an elite defence but we have the mastermind to create one, or at least the appearance of one.
     
  8. PatsFan24

    PatsFan24 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Thanks for the great post! A lot of us needed a little perspective around here.
     
  9. Gumby

    Gumby 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    Great post lil Lloyd, (sorry I can't type that many ls together without a space)

    somewhat sad that one of the most coherent posters after this game was an opponent fan.

    but coming from over the fence also makes your arguments all the more persuasive.

    thanks for the optimism.
     
  10. Tunescribe

    Tunescribe PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'd call this a very gracious post by a visiting fan, but hardly revelatory. It simply states the obvious that many here quickly forget or fail to grasp. Young members of Patsfans, take heed.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2011
  11. randomk1

    randomk1 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Good post but i personally feel this team is as flawed as last years team was. As of right now i think none of the problems from last year have been improved upon.

    Gotta wait and see i guess.
     
    Last edited: Nov 2, 2011
  12. Deus Irae

    Deus Irae PatsFans.com Retired Jersey Club PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Disable Jersey

    Ehh..... Patriots fans are dealing with a defense that's been historically bad for a long stretch of the season, for the second year in a row. After having been the opposing fans for so much of the Manning era, most of us realize that we're seeing Brady being wasted he way the Fivehead was. The fans have actually been remarkably patient, because the 3 in 4 from the beginning of the 2000s bought Belichick a lot of slack.

    The slack is just running out, that's all.
     
  13. zoostation

    zoostation In the Starting Line-Up

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    True class from a Steeler fan.

    For the record...the Steelers are the only team in the NFL I respect as much as the Patriots. But don't confuse the word 'respect' for 'like' ! :D
     
  14. Wax Frog

    Wax Frog In the Starting Line-Up

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    #87 Jersey

    :lol2: 10char
     
  15. lillloyd

    lillloyd On the Game Day Roster

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    Definitely not trying to dispute that you have defensive issues currently. My point is, what team--what contender--doesn't have significant issues this year? People cite GB as a juggernaut but the truth is their secondary issues are arguably just as bad...and everyone else has major concerns in other areas. Indy won the SB with a historically bad run D, Pitt won it with a historically bad OL in '08 (at least in SB terms). No reason in this day and age why you can't win with a "historically bad" pass D...particularly when (from an outsider's perspective anyway) you have an elite coaching staff, and ample time to improve.

    The days of the 80s and 90s when dominant, balanced dynasty teams would rip their way through the season and win the SB by 4 touchdown margins are long gone. There are no perfect teams; just good-but-flawed teams, and a lot of parity. Defensive warts and the Pitt loss aside, it seems like NE still fits squarely into that "flawed contender" category (along with the rest of us ;)), so you should have as good a chance as anyone to emerge.

    To complain about this (and don't take this the wrong way--we ALL do it), is sort of to complain that "my team's not PERFECT, and won't cakewalk its way to a title". You guys still have an elite offense and the best QB/coach combo out there; most fans and most teams would trade for this situation in a heartbeat.

    Good luck the rest of the way,

    lillloyd
     
  16. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    It is interesting that it takes a fan from another team to be the voice of sanity on this board. Granted this irrational panic has not only contained itself here, but has spread to the local media where many of them are far more irrational than people on this board.
     
  17. BSR

    BSR In the Starting Line-Up

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    Many of the points raised are those made by others over and over again, except he can't be shouted down by those in a PANIC as a head in the sand, blind homer.
     
  18. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    That's true. I was just being gracious to a fan from another team who came here with respect rather than trash talking. I have argued many of the same points.
     
  19. Sicilian

    Sicilian Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Thank you for the post. It's always good to see respectful football conversation from opposing fans, and I agree with just about everything you said. Pats teams have historically improved on defense as the season goes on, and with the added flux of cutting Bodden and bringing guys off the PUP list, I'm not willing to say this is the defense as we'll see it in week 16 and 17. You guys got the best of us this week, and you deserve credit for that. Steelers are a good team, it's not like we got beat by the Rams or something...
     
  20. MoLewisrocks

    MoLewisrocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    In case you didn't hang around long enough to figure this out, don't waste your breath on the resident contrarian. Comparing us to anyone or even everyone else just won't cut it. We're supposed to be way better than that whether anyone else ever actually is or not is immaterial...making any comparative analysis a fools game. ;)
     
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