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Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatsFanInVa, Aug 1, 2011.

  1. PatsFanInVa

    PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Well, your teabagger buddies got pretty much everything they wanted on the debt ceiling, with the exception that the country's economy won't actually be destroyed within the week...

    Now comes the stark fact that the deal itself is as mistimed as it is lopsided -- unless of course we're all breathing a sigh of relief for no reason, and the progressives sink the deal tomorrow.

    NYT: Economists warn cuts to federal spending ill-timed - politics - The New York Times - msnbc.com

    I don't really know what the President's reasoning is for caving this far this fast, other than the fact that teabaggers really would execute the hostage, vis., us. I don't think that's how you deal with hostage takers.

    And the dumb part is, they're tanking the economy on purpose just so they can blame it on him for the next year+.

    Pretty much rolled him on the debt ceiling like they did on health care.

    ::shrug::

    "May you live in interesting times."
  2. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey


    Then again you would have been most happy with Cloward-Piven. the stimulus did not work and inflated government was not working either. So the recovery may take a bit longer ... whatever ... we need to move forward with a leaner federal government, we cannot print our way to prosperity. Tea Party people helped save this country from financial ruin and let's hope the cuts continue.
  3. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The "new far left democrats" are responsible for the birth of The Tea Party.
  4. mcgraw_wv

    mcgraw_wv Rookie

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    What we are seeing is how valuable a third party would make itself. While the two major parties squable, a third party would be the king maker, as each party would need to court the smaller, less popular third party for votes.

    Overall I think the idea we have a deal is worthless... I believe if nothing happened, then nothing would have happened, and we would all be sitting here next week saying " I thought the economy was supposed to blow up"

    I think this manufactured issue was drummed up to make the issues be about how badyl we need the federal resirse and our banking system... and the reality is, if nothing were to happen, then nothing would have happen...

    Just as I believe if the bail outs never happened, nothing would have happened.
  5. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Rookie

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    I'm very disheartened.

    The next ten years of bad economics will be directly linked to this one action, its Smoot/Hawley all over again.

    I'd say its good, because one thing this should do is forever sink the stupid, shortsided ideas of today's GOP and Teabaggers, but they've gotten wayyy too good at covering their tracks.
  6. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    They did? $2.4 trillion in reduced increases (not actual "cuts") over 10 years was all they were looking for? I haven't been following the Tea Party all that closely, but didn't the House pass a package with $5.8 trillion in "cuts" a little while ago (the Ryan Budget)? That was too much for the Tea Party folks?

    From the last thread where we went back and forth on these issues:

    Take $240 billion off each of the deficits in 2012-2020 and dropping the 2010 numbers you get:

    Code:
    [B][U]February Assumption
    [/U][/B]
    2011 - $1,267 T
    2012 - $588 B
    2013 - $487 B
    2014 - $466 B
    2015 - $512 B
    2016 - $538 B
    2017 - $538 B
    2018 - $545 B
    2019 - $668 B
    2020 - $763 B
    [B]Total: $6.372 T
    
    [/B][B][U]Mid-session review
    [/U][/B]
    2011- $1,416 T 
    2012- $671 B
    2013- $496 B
    2014- $458 B
    2015- $522 B
    2016- $518 B
    2017- $481 B
    2018- $509 B
    2019- $582 B
    2020- $660 B
    [B]Total: $6.313 T[/B]
    
    
    We are still pushing the total debt over $20 trillion (not including compound interest for the outstanding debt).

    As I said in another thread. The downgrade is coming. Sooner or later you run out of road to kick stuff down.
  7. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We have one it is called the 'Tea Party' it is currently trying to take over 1 of the larger parties.
  8. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    B5 is correct we just 'removed' (if the cuts ever actually happen, which may not happen with all the accounting tricks like 'baseline' budgeting) ~2T from 20T + projected deficits.

    The angst being shown by libs over this small change shows how extreme they are.
  9. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

    Mrs.PatsFanInVa PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    Um, no...do the math. A party which is trying to take over one of two parties means it wants to replace one of those parties - which, if it is successful, leaves two parties.

    Not three - two.

    1 + 1 + 1 - 1 = 2
  10. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The 'Tea Party' is currently embedded in the pub party. Again the point flies over you head while to try to play trivia. Another poster referred to 3rd parties not me.
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2011
  11. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #12 Jersey

    Nothing flew over "me" head, 13. I don't care who first referred to a 3rd party - if your response to it was
    you are the one who makes the point that The Tea Party IS a third party.

    Which makes me wonder about all the time you and every other Tea Party follower stressed that The Tea Party was NOT a PARTY, it was a MOVEMENT.
  12. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My response was there was already a 3rd party inside the pub party ie the Tea Party as shown in the recent debt ceiling negotiations.
  13. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    Meh... all we've done is fill in a few of the pot holes on the road to fiscal oblivion. The idea that the government is somehow going to suffer cuz it has $7 billion in cuts this year is beyond comical. Suddenly the economy simply won't ever recover cuz a few billion dollars, like $10-15 billion in the next 2 years, are being taken from $3.5 trillion budgets. Oh my how will we survive! :rolleyes:

    Default is inevitible. It's only a matter of when, not if.
  14. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah but were gonna to promise to cut 22B from next years budget of ~4,000B, that will certainly be the end of government as we know it! :rolleyes:
  15. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

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    Glad to see that real, substantive defense cuts have been put on the table.

    Now to deal with the revenue side of the equation next year, which is much more fortuitous ground for Obama and the Democrats than the debt ceiling debate.
  16. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Did you see the ISM data today Jack?

    Or the downward revisions of the GDP numbers fro Q1 and the anemic Q2 number (even before the coming downward revision?)

    The revenue side will be addressed when the economy GROWS, not by increasing tax rates to play class warfare politics. We need to cut back many of the stupid regulations being put on place getting rid of Obama care and cutting more spending them we will see an increase in revenues to lower the crushing deficits.
  17. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

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    1.) I have seen economic indicators being revised downward all over the place. We now know the 2009 decession was much, much more severe than anyone knew at the time. Of course, this throws a nice little monkey wrench into your "unemployment" talking point you like to deploy as evidence that the stimulus failed. In fact, given what we know now, we know the stimulus should have been significantly larger at the time. And now that stimulus funds are running dry, we can see the adverse effects especially at the state and local level.

    2.) The notion that tax increases will harm the economy is not axiomatic. Likewise, the Bush tax cuts were never meant to be permanent and should be allowed to expire as planned.

    3.) The notion that cutting spending will boost the economy in the short-term is a belief that is not shared by economists. In fact, your argument has it exactly backwards: we should be waiting until the economy grows before we cut spending. Apparently both parties realize this to some extent, which is why the debt bargain's cuts are heavily backloaded.

    4.) You keep whining about Obamacare and regulations, but until you can point to something concrete it's nothing more than boilerplate.
  18. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Rookie

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    #75 Jersey

    Has all of the stimulus even been put to work yet?

    The notion that deficit spending will help it is though, eh?

    I guess so!
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2011
  19. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Obama policies killed any recovery that could have happened, he said his policies would make thing better they demonstrably did not.

    He promised in Jan 2009 to cut the deficit in half to ~500-600B he of course is now projecting deficits of >1T into the future.

    He has failed and trying to run against Bush will not fly next year. As Barry said when the Stimulus package was passed " I won the economy", he went on to say that if the economy didn't improve he would be a 1 term president. I believe his analysis is correct he will be a 1 perm president. The dems will lose the Senate too.
  20. JackBauer

    JackBauer On the Roster

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    You're certainly entitled to your opinion. I hope you realize that's what it is, though: your opinion.

    When you say things like "Obama (sic) policies killed any recovery that could have happened," it becomes increasingly difficult to take you seriously.
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2011

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