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Explosive New Hernandez Details


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yeah...well...I must admit, I never thought my other life as a pom pommer(that's me in the foreground) in drag would ever be found out...today has been fraught with emotion for me but I'm finally glad to be free of my shame...yes, I'm a pom pommer and proud to be a waver of the poms with the rest of the girls who, until today, only knew me as "Josey"....

wow.jpg
You have nice eyes...
 
yeah...well...I must admit, I never thought my other life as a pom pommer(that's me in the foreground) in drag would ever be found out...today has been fraught with emotion for me but I'm finally glad to be free of my shame...yes, I'm a pom pommer and proud to be a waver of the poms with the rest of the girls who, until today, only knew me as "Josey"....

wow.jpg

Damn, J., you make one handsome female! (Albeit on the stout side ... But as they say, "shade in the summer, warmth in the winter.")
 
I know you said it is unlikely but wouldn't #2 be exactly for a situation like this where the media is spewing all sorts of rumor and false statements? I would wager that most people that would compose a jury pool that are only hearing the snippets on TV probably think he has been arrested for murder. With such a high profile case I would think this would be exactly why #2 becomes relevant. No?

Good question. I think it's unlikely the seal here is based on avoiding prejudicial pretrial publicity for two reasons.

First, in order to justify a ban on press or public access to court proceedings, a fear of prejudicial pretrial publicity needs to be based on something specific -- not just general coverage. For example, maybe you have a case where the defendant made a confession, but he had not been given Miranda warnings, so the confession cannot come in at trial, but there is still enough other evidence to go forward with the trial. Here, you might be concerned that potential jurors would learn of the confession through the press and take it into account in the jury room, instead of just focusing on the evidence that came in at trial. I don't think this investigation is far enough along yet for there to be that kind of specific evidence that could poison the jury pool.

Second, the motion to seal was most likely done at the request of the prosecutor or on the court's own motion. It was unlikely made by any suspect in the murder, because at this point nobody has been charged (at least as of this morning). Prosecutors are almost never the ones who move to seal records based on a fear of pretrial publicity. Prosecutors almost always want pretrial publicity, because there usually is a rush to judgment, not the other way around.

All in all, it just seems too early to seal the records for that kind of thing.

More likely would be that there's going to be (or was filed today) some sensitive information that could compromise an ongoing investigation. To avoid speculating, I'll give an example that doesn't apply to this case, just to give a sense or flavor of the kind of thing that would probably be upheld against a first amendment challenge. Suppose the police wanted to get a search warrant that was highly sensitive -- like maybe of the victim's family doctor, or a lawyer, or the press, or a psychotherapist or something like that. In that situation, a judge is really going to put them through the paces for establishing probable cause before issuing a warrant. Maybe in doing so, they have to reveal a piece of evidence they don't want a suspect to know they have yet (like maybe bank account information), because there may be other evidence out there like it that they haven't gotten yet but that the suspect could destroy if he knew they were on the right track. Or maybe they are relying on the statement of a witness who, if known to a suspect before being arrested, would be in danger. It's usually something like that -- although in those sorts of cases, traditionally they don't close the entire file, but just some portion of it.

I would guess here that the judge's order will get challenged by the press at some point if it stays in effect. And maybe it will get narrowed. We'll know when we know. It is what it is. :0)
 
I don't care what you think. Don't ever post, respond or send a message to me again.

Those were the substantive posts that were made on Friday. Now - since you requested an answer. There you have it. Go fly a kite along with your other pom pom pals.

Evidently, you don't know jack about the website on which you are posting.

He can post, respond or send messages to you as much as he pleases. You have no say in that matter.

It's up to you to put him on ignore.
 
yeah...well...I must admit, I never thought my other life as a pom pommer(that's me in the foreground) in drag would ever be found out...today has been fraught with emotion for me but I'm finally glad to be free of my shame...yes, I'm a pom pommer and proud to be a waver of the poms with the rest of the girls who, until today, only knew me as "Josey"....

wow.jpg

Umm.................Can you rush the Quarterback?
 
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Good question. I think it's unlikely the seal here is based on avoiding prejudicial pretrial publicity for two reasons.

First, in order to justify a ban on press or public access to court proceedings, a fear of prejudicial pretrial publicity needs to be based on something specific -- not just general coverage. For example, maybe you have a case where the defendant made a confession, but he had not been given Miranda warnings, so the confession cannot come in at trial, but there is still enough other evidence to go forward with the trial. Here, you might be concerned that potential jurors would learn of the confession through the press and take it into account in the jury room, instead of just focusing on the evidence that came in at trial. I don't think this investigation is far enough along yet for there to be that kind of specific evidence that could poison the jury pool.

Second, the motion to seal was most likely done at the request of the prosecutor or on the court's own motion. It was unlikely made by any suspect in the murder, because at this point nobody has been charged (at least as of this morning). Prosecutors are almost never the ones who move to seal records based on a fear of pretrial publicity. Prosecutors almost always want pretrial publicity, because there usually is a rush to judgment, not the other way around.

All in all, it just seems too early to seal the records for that kind of thing.

More likely would be that there's going to be (or was filed today) some sensitive information that could compromise an ongoing investigation. To avoid speculating, I'll give an example that doesn't apply to this case, just to give a sense or flavor of the kind of thing that would probably be upheld against a first amendment challenge. Suppose the police wanted to get a search warrant that was highly sensitive -- like maybe of the victim's family doctor, or a lawyer, or the press, or a psychotherapist or something like that. In that situation, a judge is really going to put them through the paces for establishing probable cause before issuing a warrant. Maybe in doing so, they have to reveal a piece of evidence they don't want a suspect to know they have yet (like maybe bank account information), because there may be other evidence out there like it that they haven't gotten yet but that the suspect could destroy if he knew they were on the right track. Or maybe they are relying on the statement of a witness who, if known to a suspect before being arrested, would be in danger. It's usually something like that -- although in those sorts of cases, traditionally they don't close the entire file, but just some portion of it.

I would guess here that the judge's order will get challenged by the press at some point if it stays in effect. And maybe it will get narrowed. We'll know when we know. It is what it is. :0)

Great post/explanation. One thing I would change: you said "I would guess that the judge's order will be challenged by the media". No guess needed, it's a certainty. Isn't it cases like this that are exactly the kind that are challenged when docs are sealed?
 
yeah...well...I must admit, I never thought my other life as a pom pommer(that's me in the foreground) in drag would ever be found out...today has been fraught with emotion for me but I'm finally glad to be free of my shame...yes, I'm a pom pommer and proud to be a waver of the poms with the rest of the girls who, until today, only knew me as "Josey"....

wow.jpg

Joke, now I know how you kept warm for all those cold, December, aluminum bench (another loss) games :D.
That pic is just mean, it's.....Wait! Isn't that a young AH with a green shirt in the background......likely about to pull out a gun and rob that store? Just one more nail of certainty in the coffin....
 
You're right!!! It's him, Straggs....OMG...I could have been....HERNAN-NAPPED!....
 
He's got a couple of decent pairings (Andy/Me) (OTG/You), but trying to mash the pairings into a foursome is definitely an odd fit.

And thank you for thinking that second part. I appreciate it.



:thumb:

I wasn't trying to get you in trouble. I just found it weird to see my name included after seeing the post of his that Fnord had quoted which had him telling Andy not to respond to him anymore. It seemed a bit hypocritical.

Again, though, not trying to get you in trouble. :)

I guess it really is true when they say politics can make strange bedfellows....:D
 
Great post/explanation. One thing I would change: you said "I would guess that the judge's order will be challenged by the media". No guess needed, it's a certainty. Isn't it cases like this that are exactly the kind that are challenged when docs are sealed?

I'm really not sure. I think maybe, but don't know.
 
Once again, for those who do not understand: the term of a "paper warrant" is used in cases where the lead detective on the case often shows the person in question an actual written warrant on paper, yet does not enter it into the "system" or state/national database where any other law enforcement official could potentially act upon it.

In other words, it is often a bargaining chip in cases where the investigators are searching for better leads/information in hopes of solving a bigger problem issue. They want to be the ones with the power and control, and entering it into the system would do absolutely nothing in that regard.

In all actuality, I do think you have a point that it's either an active or an inactive warrant--especially if it has not been officially signed yet, so in that aspect I agree with you 100%; but there does exist such a thing often referred to as a "paper warrant." Here are 3 examples off of the top of my head:

1. In the state where I live (PA) we have constables who serve such warrants when someone is behind on their court costs, as the constable receives a percentage of the cost if he/she collects the money from the individual; however, it is rarely if ever entered into the main database for another law enforcement official to act upon, as they simply don't have the care, time, or resources to waste upon picking people up for something as little as a court cost violation. The warrant is certainly still an active warrant as the constable will often take the individual to jail, where he/she will serve the tradeoff of $40 dollars per day towards their fines, or remain there until someone pays the constable off.

2. Another example would be for someone who has been picked up on a drug charge. As we know the drug violations are a "chain" of sorts where the police/investigator wants the bigger fish, so they often move up in the chain to collect their bigger prize. The detective or arresting officer will often use the tactic of actually drawing up a warrant to show the initial arrestee, giving them the option of acting upon the warrant or having the person "cooperate" with more information that would push the investigation into the higher levels. Of course this "paper warrant" is not initially entered into the main database that the law enforcement officials use, mainly because they don't want anyone else to pick them up at a traffic violation or something else. In other words, it is often used when investigations are continuing. Whether it's ever acted upon or not is up to different circumstances. As we know, smaller drug offenses will often totally disappear with cooperation or "ratting someone else out," so the decision may sometimes be up to the person who has committed the offense, or it can be held off a while where the person may be allowed to turn themselves in.

3. One last example would be a burglary detective who has an arrestee or suspect whom they believe is involved in a chain of recent break ins around the area. They often show the arrestee a "paper warrant" (which could easily be enforced should they want it to be) for ONE of the break ins, in the hopes that the arrestee will cooperate and see them as a reasonable officer who is "cutting them a break" by holding off on the warrant so that they may either turn themselves in (which appears much better in setting bond) or even give them more information about other burglaries that others may have helped them with. The same example could be used for someone who passes 25 phony prescriptions around the area and eventually admits to ALL of their offenses in exchange for a "good word" from the investigator to the judge for a lower bond--etc, etc, etc. The lead detective would use the paper warrant for one of the charges in hopes of solving a bigger problem or getting more information about the specifics of these offenses.

The idea that there is no such thing as a "paper warrant" is not correct, although you'd be right in stating that it's a warrant that hasn't been acted upon yet or even sometimes made official. We have no idea how far the chain got along in the AH situation, so we're left to speculate with every single issue at this point in time. It's possible that the media was 100% flat out wrong, and it's also possible that someone heard about or leaked information that a warrant was in the initial stages and made the incorrect assumption that the next step would likely be taken.

Another possibility is that the police/DA's office was choosing to "use" the media involvement to put a scare into AH, which can often happen in cases of enormous media involvement. Information and mis-information is a powerful tool, especially if they wanted to apply a little more pressure. How effective that is remains a big debate, especially when someone like Michael Fee is your defense attorney.

Supa, there have been LIES posted about Aaron Hernandez!! Why would you want to add to them?

Maybe you are thinking 'I haven't lied'? Well, I never wrote you lied. I never thought you lied. I never even accused you of lying. Yet I know that what I wrote would place a specific idea in a reader's mind. Media knows the effect of putting up a visual and audio that says "murder investigation"..... "Aaron Hernandez"..... "Arrest Warrant". It's their business to know.

ABC, and all the rest, is a news organization. It's not acceptable to be placing such a solemnly serious natured idea in the minds of viewers when that idea is not correct. And the idea they placed in the viewers minds was not correct. It doesn't matter if their is minutia to explain the story's genesis or that connecting some dots could show it may not be so wrong. It's not acceptable and it makes them bogus either way. And to illustrate this, this is why I started my post out as I did, with a statement that clearly pushes an idea, a wrong one, then using the minutia to say I was technically not wrong. It's a bogus way to operate. ABC has been in this business a LONG time and knows how this works. It is their choice to operate by writing a story that pushes a larger idea while not having proper safeguards in their process to be sure it is a correct idea (whether a duped by investigators, unaware of legal matters or simply just trying to be sensational).

Hey man, no offense intended. You're ok by me. I just was trying illustrate my point :)
 

It's a good move by Ropes & Gray. Remember, Ropes & Gray does not even list criminal law as a practice area. It is a big corporate law firm. The attorney of record, Mr. Fee (how ironic is that?!?) is a health care and white collar crime attorney.

Bringing in Rankin & Sultan is appropriate at this stage of the game, especially in representing Mr. Hernandez as the police snatch and bag everything in sight. The legal questions of evidence amplified with the smashed phone and security system. These guys are experts in the rules of evidence and can help keep the police from going over the line, can help in getting evidence thrown out that is damaging, and can be very helpful should there be an appeal of a conviction. See: Rankin & Sultan | Attorneys at Law.

With all these lawyers racking up hours, the Patriots are going to be paying Ropes & Gray and Rankin-Sultan to be the slot Tight End. It's going to suck seeing a 60-year-old 5'9" 175 pound mouthpiece trying to block JJ Watt at the point of attack.
 
Poster A posts an article indicating that a representative from the Attleboro DC indicated that an arrest warrant has been drawn up but not acted upon by the court . . .

Poster B posts an article indicating that a representative from the Attleboro DC indicated that no such arrest warrant application exists . . .

Poster B calls Poster A a troll and goes on to say that his article is 100% correct . ..

I merely join the conversation and inquire from Poster B how can one claim his media source is 100% correct and the formers is not . . . I then mention a logical point that I personally would feel a lot more comfortable if I heard from the horse's mouth, given there is conflicting accounts of what was claimed by the court personnel by the media . . .

Poster B does not address my question and mere responds by reposting his article . . .

Okay I get it now . . . thanks for playing . . . your name fits your posts nicely . . .

Have you actually seen Odin's body? Obviously not, but your are still listening to the media reports that claim he is dead. The reality is there is a hierarchy of information one is willing to believe. First hand observation is best (video), confirmation from a first hand source would be next, then expert testimony, etc, etc. Last on the list is the unnamed source. That information is a crap shoot at best.

I think you are making a false argument above as I think there have generally been two camps in this thread. Those that believed the media and still think his arrest is imminent and those that think the media is incompetent especially in the case of unnamed sources. Your train of thought above seems to show that you are finally coming around on the notion that the media is unreliable but you still seem to clutch the preconceived notion that AH 'clearly did something wrong' as some have put it.

I think you are seeing Joker and others are becoming frustrated as they are continuously having to shoot down posts trying to nuance the definition of warrant so as to make their favorite media source "right". It has nothing to do with pom pom waving or anything silly like that. I think you will find most of us ready to write off AH if he is found guilty in this case. It is simply a reluctance to rush to judgment, especially a judgement based on unnamed sources.
 
There is an ignore function here. Use it if it pains you when anyone disagrees with your narrow, stilted viewpoints..I mean, I merely wanted to add that.

sorry but I can not post your quotes in my post . . . but are you saying that the statements made by the clerks were made in public and not privately to a single report or reporters . . . it would seem to me that if it was public and they did so in front of reporters, would not one of them have their iphone or cameraman shooting the statement? . . .

my only point is, and especially in light of the impound order, is that none of know what is going on at the Attleboro DC . . . and it seems that the court wants to keep the public out of it and keep things neutral, so as to perhaps not have any bias's toward either party, and not have a media circus . . . who know if the leak on Friday was correct or not, who knows if the police applied for a warrant or not, maybe were informed orally that the court could not issuance a warrant on what the police had . . . who knows when the impound order was issued . . . did the clerks neutralize the earlier leak because there was no application or they are trying to neutralize the situation, and given there is a impound order, that is not out of the question from them to do . . .

so only point is we can go around and around and around, yelling my reporter is better than your reporter and I can not tell you that I am 100% correct that a warrant was applied for but neither can you tell me that I am 100% wrong, which is my only point . . . and that is why I jumped it . . . there was just a little bit too much testosterone floating around here yesterday and over the weekend will a some troll comments and everyone seem to think they were 100% right . . .

I for one am of the opinion that I am correct, but I am not going to tell you you are 100% wrong, because in the end you may be correct . . . this was my only point . . .

btw, I apologize for the Joker comment . . . got a little heated . .. and btw 2 lover the Steve McQueen avatar and have enjoyed your posts in the past . . .
 
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