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Explain this "Health Care Savings" thing again

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by BelichickFan, Jul 15, 2009.

  1. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Fine, I'm stupid.

    House Plans to Tax Millionaires to Fund U.S. Health-Care Plan - Bloomberg.com

    "“We can’t continue to put more and more money into health care,” said Representative Henry Waxman, a California Democrat who runs the House Energy and Commerce Committee."

    So the solution to fix putting more and more money into health care is to put another $1.5 Trillion into health care.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2009
  2. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We can be sure the amount for this turkey has been underestimated.

    Funny the 'cost savings' never include tort reform, malpractice insurance is a huge factor in medical cost and 'defensive' medicine. However as we know the Trial LAwyers give a huge amount of money to the democrats, so their interest will be protected as the UAW was protected when the Auto companies went into bankruptcy.
     
  3. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Yeah, let's go after the poor family whose child becomes a vegetable because of medical malpractice. That's the conservative way. Protect the insurance companies and the big hospitals by bringing up the rare case where a jury award is out of whack (and not reduced on appeal). That way, instead of providing people with proper care, insurance companies and hospitals can simply pay the small settlements that conservatives want. This anti-trial lawyer nonsense is against the founding principles of our nation, which are designed to protect all the people, not just the powerful. No wonder conservatism is a bankrupt philosophy that has failed in virtually every one of its objectives from prayer in school to stopping abortion to blocking civil rights for gays to balancing the budget to making torture acceptable and empathy wrong.
     
  4. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    SO you defend the 'rich' tort reformers who make health care less affordable for middle calss and poor families.

    In the case of real malpractice take away the license to practice medicine. Health care shouldn't be a lottery for Rich Trial Lawyers.
     
  5. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Patters, how about answering my question. How are we saving money by spending $1.5 Trillion ???

    And while you're at it, take a look at this chart :

    http://spectator.org/assets/mc/houseDemHC.jpg

    and understand and comprehend that the tax increases now are small compared to money that will be needed when the spending actually kicks in; conveniently right after the next Presidential election. The obamans will be able to say how the program hasn't cost that much - right as it's about to explode.
     
  6. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm against outrageous jury awards, and believe that in general the appeals courts have done a good job adjusting them, and many high awards are now settled without even going to appeal. But, if medical malpractice leads to someone sustaining a lifelong injury that requires constant care, then that gets very expensive, and should be paid for by those who are responsible (or their insurance companies).

    This whole issue, I believe, is more right-wing mythmaking that is not supported by the facts. Just as Reagan delivered outrageous lies about welfare queens to make it sound like people on welfare were living in luxury, the right wing lies about medical malpractice to make it sound like millions of people with vague back injuries are living in luxury. The right in my opinion is filled with pathological liars that feed into their own hysteria and prejudices.

    The Medical Malpractice Myth by Tom Baker, an excerpt

    "In 2003 U.S. businesses paid $27 billion for auto liability insurance premiums, $57 billion for workers’ compensation insurance premiums, and less than $5 billion for products liability insurance premiums. Doctors, hospitals, and other health professionals paid only about $11 billion in medical malpractice insurance premiums."

    $11 billion is a drop in the bucket relative to the cost of health care in the United States.
     
  7. BelichickFan

    BelichickFan B.O. = Fugazi PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Patters, you are losing it. It's not about that, it's about the Dems being paid off by trial lawyers. We all, poor and rich alike, pay a lot more in insurance and medical bills because of the lawyers you defend so vigorously getting rich. The big awards are the punitive part which have nothing to do with the needs of the injured. Whatever actually injuries are sustained should be paid for; the punitive part should be the loss of the license and/or jail, not huge awards to plaintiffs and lawyers which are often an order of magnitude higher than what's needed for rehab and lost wages.
     
  8. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    BF, the argument is that if you take all the money we spend on health care now (private and public expenses) and put it instead into a national health care plan, you'll have money left over.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2009
  9. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    So why are we paying an extra $1.5 TRILLION if we already have more than enough money in the system. That is not a satisfactory answer. Try again.
     
  10. ljuneau

    ljuneau Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    Wow, what whacked logic! You can blame liberalism for killing prayer in schools, encouraging abortion, and trying to block civil rights.

    Without Tort reform, the cost of health care will not decrease. Liberals want it both ways - allow litigation over anything and everything, then complain that medical care costs too much. And also accuse insurance companies of being greedy because they want to make a profit for providing the medical community with adequate insurance. That's the liberal way of thinking. Nothing that a little common sense can't expose.
     
  11. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    My wife worked for a doctor, their malpractice ins was her single largest expense. In some states There is a severe shortage of OBGYN's due to the soaring cost of malpractice.

    So spin away, reality is far different than your socialist fantasies.
     
  12. ljuneau

    ljuneau Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    The only way they will have money left over is if they ration, to an extreme, health care - by controlling who gets medical care based on age, value to society, and cost.
     
  13. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The total premiums paid for medical malpractice insurance in 2003 was $11 billion, based on the link I provided above. That's a decent amount of money, but relative to size of our health care system, it's a drop in the bucket. Thus, opposing the rights of victims is not going to reduce health care costs significantly.

    Furthermore, when you cap punitive damages, you are in effect saying to companies -- you can either fix the problem or pay relatively small punitive damages periodically.
     
  14. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Our health system is the most expensive on a per capita basis in the world, twice as expensive as in France that's considered an excellent health care system. Surely, we can spend more per capita than France to keep what we like about our system, and still save a fortune if it's implemented effectively.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2009
  15. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    How do we save a fortune when we're ADDING $1.5 TRILLION ???
     
  16. ljuneau

    ljuneau Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    LOL. France's system?

    Considered the world's best, France's healthcare system could face bankruptcy.
     
  17. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    We have the most exensive system because we have the best system.Healthcare in France is rationed. Why would France be an example for how to do ANYTHING?
     
  18. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Where are you getting $1.5 trillion? The number I've seen is $1 trillion and that's over 10 years or $100 billion/year. That will cover the cost of paying for those who get free health care by going to emergency rooms and those who suffer more consequences of illness because they can't afford preventative care. At least that's the theory, and given the fact that our system is so expensive, clearly there are some major inefficiencies in our current model.
     
  19. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    $15.5 billion? I think that's a relatively small sum, especially in a serious economic downturn.

    From the link you posted,

    "The minister unveiled his plans Monday, estimating that the nation could save $18 billion a year: Reforms included computerizing patient records, encouraging patients to visit their family doctors before going to expensive specialists, boosting the use of cheaper generic drugs, and making patients pay a nominal $1.19 charge for each visit to a doctor."
     
  20. alvinnf

    alvinnf In the Starting Line-Up

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    You would think that there first step would be to fix Medicaire and Medicaid. Then once you have achieved those goals you move on to a broad base solution. The problem is that they just want to put their stamp or name on the program, thus ensuring a nice election talking point. It's shameful!!!!! This is partisan politics at it's worst.
     

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