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Ex-CIA agent: Waterboarding 'saved lives'

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by mtbykr, Dec 11, 2007.

  1. mtbykr

    mtbykr PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #37 Jersey

    Haven't seen this posted yet, which is surprising:

    http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/12/11/agent.tapes/index.html


     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2007
  2. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    I was watching the movie The Punisher last night with John Travolta and Thomas Jane, and was thinking about torture and waterboarding. In the movie, Jane strings up this little wieny dude upside down from the ceiling, and lights up a blow torch. He starts asking the dude to tell him some info, to which he refuses. So Jane goes into this talk, as he adjusts the flame on the torch, about how it's 2,000 degrees, and is so hot that he won't feel it burn his flesh. He'll just smell cooking flesh, and then will feel an ice cold sensation that means he's burning straight through his body. The guy doesn't budge, so Jane moves the flame toward the mans back, and acts as if he's buring it, while he actually burns a piece of steak that's on the stool behind him. The steak obviously gives off the smell of buring flesh, and he then took a popsicle and touched on the guys back for the cold sensation. The dude starts screaming, smelling the meet, knowing the flame, and feeling the cold, that he starts blabing like a little kid. Now, I know, just a movie, but what it made me wonder was whether or not that constitutes actual torture? Has anyone seen the movie scene in question? I wondered if that was similar to what waterboarding is like. No actual physical danger, but certain traumatic fear. It's an interesting thought none the less.
     
  3. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    That seems like a decent analogy... the fear of dying or of pain is probably a very effective interrogation technique... or tricking someone into thinking something is happening to him which is worse than what is really happening to him...
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2007
  4. mtbykr

    mtbykr PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #37 Jersey

    I've seen the movie and am familiar with water-boarding. I would say it's a pretty good analogy in that there is no damage being done. However in the movie it is the mans mind that is making the reaction whereas in water-boarding it is the body that is reacting and telling the mind that it's drowning.
     
  5. mtbykr

    mtbykr PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #37 Jersey

    One other note: our military (although i am sure they will never admit it) actually use water-boarding as a training technique. Several friends have gone through it in their seal training.....it helps them (or weeds them out) adapt to the sensation of drowning so that they can control their reaction....this way they don't panic if they are ever drowning during an op.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2007
  6. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    ever gotten a gulp of water in your lungs? now imagine a cup of water...

    waterboarding most certainly IS torture...

    unfortunately, the moron attorney general skirted the issue before resigning...
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2007
  7. mtbykr

    mtbykr PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #37 Jersey

    So i assume you are against using this?
     
  8. mtbykr

    mtbykr PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #37 Jersey

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/12/08/AR2007120801664.html?hpid=topnews





     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2007
  9. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    why don't you answer the question? have you ever gotten a tangible amount of water in your lungs?

    as for your question, which i won't avoid, i'm against torture... it's un-American... simple as that..
     
  10. mtbykr

    mtbykr PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #37 Jersey


    Very interesting
     
  11. mtbykr

    mtbykr PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #37 Jersey

    Yes i've gotten water in my lungs...and more than just a gulp in lifeguard training.
     
  12. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    somehow, i seriously doubt you've ever had "more than just a gulp" go right down into your lungs...

    but, for the benefit of that doubt: great... then you would know it's far, far from a pleasant experience...
     
  13. mtbykr

    mtbykr PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #37 Jersey


    I personally think the term 'torture' is up for interpretation. Some people think one thing is torture and others think differently. I personally don't have a problem with water-boarding if it is done by someone who is trained to do it.
     
  14. mtbykr

    mtbykr PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #37 Jersey

    Funny you know nothing about me, yet you 'seriously doubt' what i say about my own experience. I assume if it fit your side of the argument, you would believe me without hesitation;)


    Isn't that the point? there would be no purpose for doing it, whether training for interrogating, if it wasn't unpleasant.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2007
  15. PressCoverage

    PressCoverage Banned

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    generally speaking, considering the plethora of untruths propagated and documented, i have developed an aversion to trusting Bush Doctrine sympathizers on face value... but you don't have to qualify whether i doubt you... we'll just assume it ...

    then you're playing a game of semantics, despite acknowledging that it's awful to experience
     
  16. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Uncle Teddy waterboards with his car.

    :bricks:
     
  17. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Pro Bowl Player

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    .... but some people don't care, because he's a Dem, not an evil Repub.

    ........... snore ....................



    //
     
  18. BelichickFan

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    #24 Jersey

    LMFAO.

    If people want to make the argument that torture doesn't result in good intelligence then so be it, the argument has some supporters. However if you are accepting as fact that it does result in good intelligence I can't see how anyone would be against it.
     
  19. jack

    jack 2nd Team Getting Their First Start

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    I read this post and think of mel brooks and history of world part one.....The inquisition scene, and how they converted jews to catholcism through torture,,,I mean enhanced interogation methods,,,,I mean torture....
    Or whatever is safe to say this week..

    .I watched the technique, and it sure as hell looks like torture.....Would you say it looks like torture or it looks like enhanced interrogation??
     
  20. Real World

    Real World Moderator Staff Member

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    They did something similar to my brother when he went to Ranger school. It involved full gear and a pool I think.
     

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