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Evidently Bush = Big Government??????

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by shmessy, Mar 31, 2008.

  1. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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  2. BelichickFan

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    Thanks for the bulletin - we've known this for about 5-6 years now.

    Duh :rolleyes:
  3. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    So what else is new, never used his veto pen to constrain congress, passed the prescription drug benefit and the education bill wiht Kennedy.

    Is this like figuring out after 16 years that the Clintons are liars who practice gutter politics.

    Just cause he did a good job on the WOT and passed tax cuts didn't mean the guy didn't do a lot of other dumb things.
  4. BelichickFan

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    I think the Liberals around here aren't smart enough to realize Conservatives can be disappointed in Bush but still be Conservative. Sorry, guys, Bush does not equal Conservative and reminding us about what we don't like about Bush isn't going to make us vote for The Messiah (otherwise known as Obama).
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2008
  5. Fogbuster

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    Better than Barack Hussein Obama. IMHO.

    :D


    :singing:



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  6. BelichickFan

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    As of this moment I prefer McCain to Bush. However I, like most Republicans, have been clear that he's far, far, far from my perfect candidate.
  7. Fogbuster

    Fogbuster Rookie

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    Sometimes service to one's country is a good enough foundation to offer wise leadership. Not always, obviously, but some times. I look forward to what McCain does from here on out because both Dem candidates have very big vulnerabilities. Weaknesses that can be exploited extensively, and will no doubt be tested.


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  8. BelichickFan

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    I don't disagree with that.

    The war mongerer thing is what it is, I guess, I would prefer us to not be in Iraq too but we're there now and staying there, while a bad option, is probably better than withdrawing.

    Ignorant about the economy, etc, yeah, he'll need someone like Romney to be a strong advisor there.

    I'm also not thrilled about him being against Bush's tax cuts before he was for them.

    However I do think he's a legitimate small government Republican which is a good thing. If Obama or Clinton were a small government Democrat I would look seriously in that direction; but they are not.
  9. Real World

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    Someone just figured out that GW is big government? :confused:
  10. DarrylS

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    Do you think it is good he flip flopped on torture?? IMO it looked a lot like pandering..

    I also do not like his relationship with many lobbyists.. there is a fine line here between being an insider in the beltway and having many people expect favors..

    I really like and respect his service..

    In 2000 George and Karl smeared his faux pas and family, some real and some imagined, all over south Carolina and now they are buddy buddies.. don't care for that either. Some things are unforgiveable.
  11. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Maybe he should raise taxes to PAY for it?
  12. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Compared to crypto socailist/communist like Hillary and Obama, it is sort of like choosing to get the flu instead of the Ebola virus
  13. PatsFanInEaglesLand

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    Or make the other 50% pay a fair share.
  14. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Ya mean like Halliburton, Kellogg, Brown and Root and all the others who have been draining our Treasury for years only to move to Dubai and the Cayman Islands?

    Yeah, PFinEL, that's a GREAT idea!
  15. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Take the honest liberial test, how much should a person/ family pay in taxes?
  16. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand Rookie

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    Do you actually know what these companies do? Or is this just liberal speak?

    Do you know how much in tax payments people were paid who didn't pay any income taxes?
  17. DarrylS

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    Less than we do right now.. I like the idea of small gov't, in this adm. Rumsfield did not like the CIA so he started his own intelligence agency in the Pentagon.. all of the war profiteers, the Dept of ed and all of its idiotic regs.. on and on and on.. this gov't and the previous ones are good at wasting money. One time I knew a guy whose job it was to keep track of telephone poles in Kansas.. he got paid well.
    Last edited: Mar 31, 2008
  18. BelichickFan

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    Or not raise taxes and not raise spending. Duh. The government gets MORE than enough money. It's not an income problem it's a spending problem.
  19. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm for a flat tax. No loopholes, except for charity.

    That means the luxury boxes and champagne at sporting events are not write offs. The $150 per person lunch is not a write off. The Gov't does no business with corps that move to the Cayman Islands to escape rightful FICA payments to their employees who put their own lives on the line in Iraq only to return home with no FICA benes paid in.

    That FICA taxes are paid evenly by all (not just those who make less than 102K per year). If that is done, we can bring down FICA taxes (currently 7.65% on the first 102K) to approx. 2% on all income (earned income and Paris Hilton-style income).
  20. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Wow, you area great economist. However, Cash Flow is a TWO-WAY street.

    I'm all for lowering taxes IF IT'S AFFORDABLE.

    Anyone can lower taxes, just like any parent can be their kids' "best friend" by saying yes to sugar and candy all day.
  21. Fogbuster

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    What's "affordable" to you?


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  22. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Nice taking that out of context. It meant "affordable for the US Budget". If you have huge debts you don't "spend your way" out of it.

    RW earlier today suggested we should just hasten the financial crisis and declare bankruptcy:

    "Bankruptcy is the only option. Did you know the last time the government was in the black was the early 1950's? We've been making minimum payments on our credit card debt, while charging more and more everytime we go shopping. It's best we go out of business and start over."

    I saw that as a very interesting point. Everything points to that being what the Neo Cons are aiming for.

    Trillions of dollars of debts for our grandchildren is not "affordable" to me. It may be for you.
  23. BelichickFan

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    No mortgage deduction either then - which is fine with me but it's not happening.

    That doesn't work unless you change the whole concept. The concept of SS isn't that it's a tax, it's a "the more you put in the more you get out" system. If I (generic person as I make less than $102K) made $200K and my SS tax were raised, I would also get more out unless the concept changes. That would blow your numbers out of the water.
  24. Fogbuster

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    Wait a minute! I thought Bill Clinton "balanced the budget"?? Didn't he also get rid of the national debt?? (There's some "context" for you!! :singing: )


    OK, beyond partisanship, I see the issue as one of balancing the level of scale-down of personal spending: nix on the Bentleys, auto-upscale with every promotion, no savings/investments. In general: no more spending before earning; certainly no more spending MORE than one is earning.

    If this can be enforced, the debt will come down. It may take a couple of generations to eliminate it entirely, but as long as it makes a steady downward track, we'll be in good shape over the long haul. I'm thinking the next hundred years, after which a new ethic of spending/living balance will be established.


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  25. shmessy

    shmessy Maude Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You are confusing the terms "deficit" with "debt".

    The Clinton years saw a marked reduction in the deficit and, eventually, the creation of a very healthy surplus. There never was an elimination of debt. Much of the surplus did go towards paying down and REDUCING the massive debt. On the day he handed the reigns over to the person who garnered 500,000 votes less than Al Gore, the fiscal momentum of our country's cash flow was moving steadily in the right direction for the future.

    Hope that's helpful.
  26. PatsFanInEaglesLand

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    You are jealous of those who have, aren't you?

    What a sad, sad display you are.
  27. Fogbuster

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    Yeah, I learned the difference between the deficit and the debt some years ago. During Jimmy Carter's reign, I believe. :(

    Anywho, I was just poking you with a little political humor. To keep things in "context". :rolleyes:


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  28. BelichickFan

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    You keep saying that but have never, ever shown any supporting evidence.
  29. Real World

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    Um, maybe he should spend less?
  30. Real World

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    As little as is humanly neccesary.

    What's sad about the current sate of government, and I mean local, state, and federal, is the gross mismanagement of money and structure. How come no one is complaining about Massachusetts cities and towns trying to override Proposition 2 1/2? Whay are so many cities having difficulty balancing a budget? Is that GW's fault? Hmm.... GW, that drunken sailor that he is, has given cities and towns more money than any other president in our history, yet States & cities can't cut the mustard. Why?

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