Evidence of other NFL teams stealing signs

[PatsFanInVa]

Here's another oldie but a goodie from Phil Simms:

The theory that Spygate is a serious issue was destroyed best from players like former New York Giant Phill Sims, who said, "In the Super Bowl, we knew every play they (opponent was) going to run before the snap and that didn't help us. The bottom line is that you have to execute!"quote]

I don't think that it was the Super Bowl he was referring to ( and hope not) because Simms went 22/25 in his only Super Bowl. Hostetler was the QB in the Giant's second SB....

PatsfaninPhilly... do you have a source?

 

[nelly57]

Belichick was always more interested in the thought process of/behind the men signaling in the defense than the signals themselves.

Yup. And more so, by deciphering the signal, Adams can determine if the personnel on the field blew a coverage or bit hard on a fake. He can keep tabs on the coaches thought processes and his players ability to carry them out.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Here's the Washington Post article the Simms quote started out in... there's also a good Theismann quote in the same article

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/15/AR2008051503673_pf.html

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

PatsfaninPhilly... do you have a source?

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/15/AR2008051503673_pf.html

"I've been in games where we knew every signal, every call by the other team, and we still lost," Simms said by telephone yesterday. "We had the San Diego Chargers' signals in 1980. We knew every signal. We knew every play. We were calling out what they were going to do: 'Here comes this. Here comes that.' They still scored 44 points.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

HSanders, help me out with something - there should be a publisher mentioned somewhere in the edition you have (as in "Harcourt Brace" or whatever.) Also, a city of publication. It's helpful for the source quote especially for a book where you want to use a page number (it specifies the edition.) Also, help me out with double-checking the date - Wiki says it came out in 1997.

[FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]

[/FONT][FONT=&quot]Enlarge image [/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Publisher: Grand Central Pub[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Publish date: Nov 1997[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Warner Books NY ISBN-13: 9780446605205[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]ISBN-10: 0446605204[/FONT]
[FONT=&quot]Format: Paperback , 336 pages[/FONT]

 

[PatsFanInVa]

LOL PFinPhilly, went fishing for it too and ended up in the same place. Thanks for the info on the book... I think a "Coaches and Players" section would be a good place for this, and for adding in the Jimmy Johnson quotes one more time too. HSanders, can you look in the copy of the book you have, and confirm that it's the edition PatsFaninPhilly got the source info for? It would help.

 

[Patsfanin Philly]

LOL PFinPhilly, went fishing for it too and ended up in the same place. .

What can I say, great minds think alike. When you think about it, this was a classic witchhunt and the Pats made ideal targets. They were successful, somewhat arrogant ( with the press and with the rest of the league) and like the Greek tragedy others wanted to see them fall. When a situation arose that had also been done many times by others, they were like Captain Renault who was 'shocked to find gambling" at Ric's in Casablanca while he collected his winnings. The others in the press and across the league got their punches in and tarnished the Patriots in the short run BUT as a long time fan, I have a feeling that Messrs. Kraft (both of them), and Belichick have long memories. 4 or 5 years from now, a team from say Indy may be on the wrong end of a severe a**whooping that will go whistle to whistle and make some of this year's blowouts (e.g. Redskins,Buffalo) look tame.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

Think alike indeed... I've made the Renault comparison before too... I guess it's out there in the Pats zeitgeist by now

 

[LuthierJr]

threw up a huge list of the Marty Schottenheimer tree (where Jimmy Johnson learned it from) in the official FRAMe thread.

 

[PatsFanInVa]

I thank you and Patriots Nation thanks you

 

[PatriotsReign]

I thank you and Patriots Nation thanks you

And we certainly have become a more united "Patriot Nation" due to the sustained media attack upon us!

That is the ONLY fallout from spygate I am grateful for....keep circling the wagons guys! We truly appreciate your efforts!

 

[LuthierJr]

just updated the official thread with some more info. We, in all honesty, could probably account for every football team/coach/OC/DC in the history of football through these trees.

I mean if you take it just one step up from Marty Schottenheimer you find Lou Saban....just think about that tree for a minute.

The NFL started having televised games in 1939. I'm not exactly sure when ti became common practice to tape your own games for scouting purposes, but I'm assuming that not long after they started doing that a wily coach started taping signals.

 

[LuthierJr]

And we certainly have become a more united "Patriot Nation" due to the sustained media attack upon us!

That is the ONLY fallout from spygate I am grateful for....keep circling the wagons guys! We truly appreciate your efforts!

+1 on that. Because of this whole incident we have become a closer knit community. It's us against the world. And we will prevail. If no where else on the football field in 2008!!!

 

[Larry Whigham]

just updated the official thread with some more info. We, in all honesty, could probably account for every football team/coach/OC/DC in the history of football through these trees.

I mean if you take it just one step up from Marty Schottenheimer you find Lou Saban....just think about that tree for a minute.

The NFL started having televised games in 1939. I'm not exactly sure when ti became common practice to tape your own games for scouting purposes, but I'm assuming that not long after they started doing that a wily coach started taping signals.

This is an outstanding post. I wish there was a way to transfer that knowledge to the average football fan who wants to take the drivel "They cheated and their SuperBowls don't count" that ESPN, Peter King, and the other hacks are shoveling.

I've come to accept the fact that greatness is often misunderstood by the masses.

 

[Hardboiled]

I thought the issue was the taping of other teams signals, not just trying to steal them, right?

The penalty was for taping. However, looking at stealing signs as an accepted practice puts the taping in perspective. If stealing signs is considered fair play, how is taping them and down and distance information a major violation?

Additionally, if there is a pattern of other team tapings, then that puts it in the area of accepted practice.

The "everybody does it" path isn't meant to be an excuse, but a way to lessen the mania Goodell choose to start last September and continues around the league.

Give a fine and a penalty but don't hold holier than thou interviews and high and mighty press conferences. The NFL has fed a false perception.

 

[Larry Whigham]

The penalty was for taping. However, looking at stealing signs as an accepted practice puts the taping in perspective. If stealing signs is considered fair play, how is taping them and down and distance information a major violation?

Additionally, if there is a pattern of other team tapings, then that puts it in the area of accepted practice.

The "everybody does it" path isn't meant to be an excuse, but a way to lessen the mania Goodell choose to start last September and continues around the league.

Give a fine and a penalty but don't hold holier than thou interviews and high and mighty press conferences. The NFL has fed a false perception.

Great perspective. From your keyboard to Peter King's massive head.

 

[HSanders]

HSanders, help me out with something - there should be a publisher mentioned somewhere in the edition you have (as in "Harcourt Brace" or whatever.) Also, a city of publication. It's helpful for the source quote especially for a book where you want to use a page number (it specifies the edition.) Also, help me out with double-checking the date - Wiki says it came out in 1997.

If it matters, my edition is a bit different from those sources posted. Publisher is Warner Books Inc. New York, NY, copyright is 1996 by Tim Green. It also states that it was originally published in hardcover by Warner Books and first printed in paperback Nov 1997. It has 316 pages including the index.

 

[Larry Whigham]

The corruption in the NFL. I tell ya... It's staggering, huh?

"...It's no rumor, pal. "Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game," says Broncos coach Mike Shanahan. "With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes, by the end of the first quarter...."

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/magazine/life_of_reilly/news/2002/01/09/life_of_reilly/