Everyone's thoughts on ONLY the defense...

[Garbanza]

Did you guys watch the same game i did?

The secondary was good.

The linebackers were beyond horrid after Mayo went down.

The d-line was mediocre at best.

 

[Patriots2001]

My biggest concern continues to be the lack of pass rush just like last year.

 

[Kontradiction]

Did you guys watch the same game i did?

The secondary was good.

The linebackers were beyond horrid after Mayo went down.

The d-line was mediocre at best.

The secondary was excellent. Anytime you hold a combination or T.O. and Lee Evans under 100 yards with 0 TDs, that is nothing short of excellent. The LB corps will improve when Mayo comes back. During the short time he was in there, they were flying around like a bunch of missiles. Agreed about the D-Line. Everytime Fred Jackson peeled a run off to the left side of the line, I missed Seymour. Would like to see more Myron Pryor out there in the coming weeks.

 

[chris_in_sunnyvale]

I did not read the whole thread, so forgive me if I'm repeating a point already made:

I liked the CB play, Bodden in particular. Owens, Evans and Parrish were kept in check. If the Pats could have kept Jackson in check or keep Edwards from running for key 1st downs (not easy, I know), the Bills' O would have been completely shut down.

Regards,
Chris

 

[cmasspatsfan]

Originally Posted by Garbanza
Did you guys watch the same game i did?

The secondary was good.

The linebackers were beyond horrid after Mayo went down.

The d-line was mediocre at best.

I guess we didnt, Buffalo only had 276 net yards

Rushing ATT YDS TD LG
F. Jackson 15 57 0 16
T. Edwards 2 25 0 16
X. Omon 2 8 0 7

Passing
T Edwards 15/25 212 yds 2 Td 0 Int

Thats not horrid, its ok with a chance to improve greatly over the course of the year.
Lot of new faces thats going to take time to play together.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Everyone's thoughts on ONLY the defense.....

That was a brand new offensive line out there, with 3 players that had never played a game in the NFL, and it stoned the Patriots a lot more often than it should have. I'm quite confident that nobody on the Patriots coaching staff or on the defense was happy with that performance.

It was just week one, and I expect things to get better. The team is integrating a fair amount of new parts, and that's going to take time. Mayo missed a lot of the game, as well. I was one of the people in the chat room telling people to relax. However, the game's done and it's time for honest evaluation. If blowing smoke about "happy with the defensive effort" works for you, you go for it. I didn't see it that way. The defense played a bad offense and struggled doing so. It's got about 6 days to get better, or else the Jets are going to bury this defense in the sandbox. The Jets offensive line has played more than just 50 combined games.

I must have been peeing when they ran all those plays where the rookie OL had to stand around and not block because it was their first game.

If it makes you feel good to belittle winning a game by devaluing what actually happened on the field with "but I know they arent good, so we really didnt do as good as it looked" there is nothing I can do about that.

I can use rational judgment and say that the people who think a run D that allowed RBs to rush 17 times for 65 yards was bad must just not understand football.
I can understand concern for allowing 83 yards of screen passes, but would assume that anyone who thinks that all the other plays that added up to less than 200 yards of total offense would mean that someone who said our DL was 'stymied' or 'stoned' or 'manhandled' just doesnt know what they were seeing.

I guess we have reached the point where Vince Lombardi is a wimp and a homer because "Winning isnt everything, its the only thing" is no longer good enough, now they have to win, and reach the point where anyone who possess a computer must be able to conclude they would have won against the all pro team.

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Everyone's thoughts on ONLY the defense.....

I agree.

overall, we couldn't play well enough to beat a really aweful offense, with three rookies offensive linemen playing their first game.

You must have fallen asleep early. You missed a good ending. WE WON!!!!

 

[Ring 6]

My biggest concern continues to be the lack of pass rush just like last year.

We got 4 sacks in 25 pass attempts. That ratio would lead the league, by far.
What are you expecting, a sack every pass play?

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Everyone's thoughts on ONLY the defense.....

I must have been peeing when they ran all those plays where the rookie OL had to stand around and not block because it was their first game.

If it makes you feel good to belittle winning a game by devaluing what actually happened on the field with "but I know they arent good, so we really didnt do as good as it looked" there is nothing I can do about that.

I can use rational judgment and say that the people who think a run D that allowed RBs to rush 17 times for 65 yards was bad must just not understand football.
I can understand concern for allowing 83 yards of screen passes, but would assume that anyone who thinks that all the other plays that added up to less than 200 yards of total offense would mean that someone who said our DL was 'stymied' or 'stoned' or 'manhandled' just doesnt know what they were seeing.

I guess we have reached the point where Vince Lombardi is a wimp and a homer because "Winning isnt everything, its the only thing" is no longer good enough, now they have to win, and reach the point where anyone who possess a computer must be able to conclude they would have won against the all pro team.

As I posted elsewhere:


I think it's pretty clear that the same people who normally get drunk on the Koolaid are continuing to do so, and that those of us who take less of a homer approach saw the game differently.

We saw the game the same way that the Patriots players apparently did, given their comments since the end of the game. We saw the game the same way that Dale & Holley did, given their comments on WEEI this morning. We saw the game the same way that fans watching and posting on other boards did.

Here's one of the comments from Ty Warren, for example:

Ty Warren [stats] seemed to have the best handle on what to make of last night’s win.

“I think we pulled it out by the skin of our teeth, but at the same time, a win is a win,” he said. “Nobody is that blind to say it wasn’t mistake-free. There were a lot of mistakes in the game for us defensively with penalties and some communication problems.

You apparently saw a display of excellence. Most people didn't. You should probably go tell Ty Warren that he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about and doesn't understand football.

 

[condon84]

We got 4 sacks in 25 pass attempts. That ratio would lead the league, by far.
What are you expecting, a sack every pass play?

As Belichick has often said, "It's not about sacks, it's about pressure." We may have ended up with 4 sacks, but two (or maybe three) came on that desperation drive by the Bills. But overall, our pass pressure was not there.

 

[wdkantro2]

Re: Everyone's thoughts on ONLY the defense.....

Didn't read all 9 pages, but here's my take. The Bills running game improved as the game went on because we went from our starting line of Warren, Wilfork, Green (not sure who the 4th was, if there was one) to a better pass rush line with the rushing ends (Burgess and TBC), Wright and one of Green/Warren. The bottom line is Vince is great stuffing the run, but he simply cannot play against a no huddle. He doesn't have the speed and conditioning to consistently get to the passer and maintain gaps without a break in between. This is not a knock on him, just a fact, given that he's like 330 pounds. The pass rushers (TBC/Burgess) utilized an edge rush a majority of the time, creating huge holes for Edwards to step up.
I was VERY happy with the DBs. Butler made a nice athletic play to almost pick off a ball on the side line, Bodden was near flawless, Wilhite did an excellent job on TO, and the safeties were excellent. I can't find a flaw in their performance.
As for LBs, I liked what I saw from AD, though I would like to see him come off the edge more often; no one can stop him on the pass rush. The problem came in Guyton playing out of position and Woods playing poorly (at least in the first half). The Bills first TD on the bootleg was 100% Woods' fault; he bit on the fake and got beat to the flat. He actually got replaced by Ninkovich at one point. However, I like his tools and size as well as the fact that he was tenacious especially in the second half.
Overall, I give it around a B/B-. Had they gotten off the field instead of giving up that last TD it would probably be a B+. That hurt.

 

[slash83]

Does anybody expect to see a lot of Brace next week? Him and Wilfork would form a nice wall in the middle, I dont remember seeing him at all last night; maybe cause the bills were in no huddle mode throughout the game...

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

The most glaring problem I see of the defensive front is that they were pretty much manhandled all night with not enough pressure on the QB and the problem with this is that the Bills practically had all college seniors playing in thier first game and they kept the Patriots pass rush in check.

What the hell is going to happen when teams with excellent veteran OLs destroy this teams D-front and the QB has time for lunch back there? - The Jets next week have a very good one.

This is where you will see losses come about,the opposing QB getting too much time to survey the field.

I don't see how you can improve the pass rush at this point in time with no savoir to come from out of nowhere but hope that the players you have right now can put MUCH more emphasis on beating thier blocker or this team will be in trouble down the road when they face the likes of Manning,Ryan,Brees and probably Rivers if they make the playoffs.

I have confidence in everything this team has right now....but the pass rush is downright worrysome IMO

 

[MrNathanDrake]

hopefully we see some Brace next week.

Our LB's drafted recently have gone quick too btw. McKensize, Crable, Mayo. *shock

 

[Ring 6]

Re: Everyone's thoughts on ONLY the defense.....

As I posted elsewhere:


I think it's pretty clear that the same people who normally get drunk on the Koolaid are continuing to do so, and that those of us who take less of a homer approach saw the game differently.

We saw the game the same way that the Patriots players apparently did, given their comments since the end of the game. We saw the game the same way that Dale & Holley did, given their comments on WEEI this morning. We saw the game the same way that fans watching and posting on other boards did.

Here's one of the comments from Ty Warren, for example:



You apparently saw a display of excellence. Most people didn't. You should probably go tell Ty Warren that he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about and doesn't understand football.

I dont disagree with Warren at all. I dont think I made any comments implying it wasnt close or no mistakes were made. Do you have some from DL players saying they were stoned and manhandled by rookies who never played an NFL game, or that they are afraid that the Jets would 'bury them in the sandbox' if they played like that.
Or perhaps you could have explained why you think 17 carries for 65 yards is bad run D?
Instead you decided that you would conclude that anyone who doesn't agree with you is brain washed. Thats a nice tactic. You could never be wrong, because anyone who disagrees with you cant have a valid opinion, because they are drinking the KoolAid. Very Darwinian for someone who is incapable of admitting they are wrong to create a phrase that dismisses anyone who disagrees with them.

Thats fine though. Personally, I care about winning. It appears you care more about style points.

 

[Ring 6]

The most glaring problem I see of the defensive front is that they were pretty much manhandled all night with not enough pressure on the QB and the problem with this is that the Bills practically had all college seniors playing in thier first game and they kept the Patriots pass rush in check.

What the hell is going to happen when teams with excellent veteran OLs destroy this teams D-front and the QB has time for lunch back there? - The Jets next week have a very good one.

This is where you will see losses come about,the opposing QB getting too much time to survey the field.

I don't see how you can improve the pass rush at this point in time with no savoir to come from out of nowhere but hope that the players you have right now can put MUCH more emphasis on beating thier blocker or this team will be in trouble down the road when they face the likes of Manning,Ryan,Brees and probably Rivers if they make the playoffs.

I have confidence in everything this team has right now....but the pass rush is downright worrysome IMO

They threw 25 times and we sacked them 4. That ratio would lead the league, probably by a wide margin.
I dont know what you expect.
That offense has 2 excellent WRs and we held them to a combined 5 catches. How can that add up to the QB having all day?
Almost 40% of their passing yards were on screens.
I can remember at least 10 plays off the top of my head that were either screens or quick throws that would never have a chance for pressure.
That means we sacked him on 4 of 19 legitimate sack chances. How can that be bad?
Sometimes it seems like people think we are supposed to look like adults playing against 6 year olds. The other team actually has players blocking.
Turn it around. We threw 53 times. If Brady were sacked 8 or 9 times (the same frequency as Edwards) you are telling me you would be saying the Bills pass rush sucked?

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Everyone's thoughts on ONLY the defense.....

I dont disagree with Warren at all. I dont think I made any comments implying it wasnt close or no mistakes were made. Do you have some from DL players saying they were stoned and manhandled by rookies who never played an NFL game, or that they are afraid that the Jets would 'bury them in the sandbox' if they played like that.
Or perhaps you could have explained why you think 17 carries for 65 yards is bad run D?
Instead you decided that you would conclude that anyone who doesn't agree with you is brain washed. Thats a nice tactic. You could never be wrong, because anyone who disagrees with you cant have a valid opinion, because they are drinking the KoolAid. Very Darwinian for someone who is incapable of admitting they are wrong to create a phrase that dismisses anyone who disagrees with them.

Thats fine though. Personally, I care about winning. It appears you care more about style points.

Actually, Andy, you should admit that you're a homer, instead of getting offended when something pretty obvious is pointed out. It's not a bad thing, nor a good thing. It just is. What's funny is that you complain that I'm somehow being "Darwinian", in commenting upon my 'tactic', in the same sentence you call me incapable of admitting I'm wrong.

Brady, Warren, Dale&Holley, The Big Show, the fanbases I checked on around the country.... they saw the game pretty much as I saw it, as opposed to the rosier version you watched. Feel free to go look at some of the gamethreads that non-involved (ie. not Buffalo or NE messageboards) parties were posting in.

 

[mb6592]

Re: Everyone's thoughts on ONLY the defense.....

I think it's pretty clear that the same people who normally get drunk on the Koolaid are continuing to do so, and that those of us who take less of a homer approach saw the game differently.

We saw the game the same way that the Patriots players apparently did, given their comments since the end of the game. We saw the game the same way that Dale & Holley did, given their comments on WEEI this morning. We saw the game the same way that fans watching and posting on other boards did.

We may have ended up with 4 sacks, but two (or maybe three) came on that desperation drive by the Bills. But overall, our pass pressure was not there.

The most glaring problem I see of the defensive front is that they were pretty much manhandled all night with not enough pressure on the QB and the problem with this is that the Bills practically had all college seniors playing in thier first game and they kept the Patriots pass rush in check.

What the hell is going to happen when teams with excellent veteran OLs destroy this teams D-front and the QB has time for lunch back there? - The Jets next week have a very good one.

You are all condemned to "know nothing" status for overly relying on your eyes.

 

[Metaphors]

The most glaring problem I see of the defensive front is that they were pretty much manhandled all night with not enough pressure on the QB and the problem with this is that the Bills practically had all college seniors playing in thier first game and they kept the Patriots pass rush in check.

What the hell is going to happen when teams with excellent veteran OLs destroy this teams D-front and the QB has time for lunch back there? - The Jets next week have a very good one.

This is where you will see losses come about,the opposing QB getting too much time to survey the field.

I don't see how you can improve the pass rush at this point in time with no savoir to come from out of nowhere but hope that the players you have right now can put MUCH more emphasis on beating thier blocker or this team will be in trouble down the road when they face the likes of Manning,Ryan,Brees and probably Rivers if they make the playoffs.

I have confidence in everything this team has right now....but the pass rush is downright worrysome IMO

I see what you are saying but I believe you are overreacting. Consider:

- Edwards was sacked about once for every 8 pass plays
- Until the last drive, I can't recall a pass play more than 15 yds in the air
- Of Edwards 15 completions, only 5 went to a WR (9 targets, 5 comp, 71 yds)
- Edwards was flushed out of the pocket twice but was able to scramble for good yardage

How are you supposed to get a bunch of pressure under those conditions? I think the Pats did a good job for the situation. The gameplan was to shutdown anything downfield to Evan and Owens through coverage, not through pressure. IMO, the Pats expected their offense to be more successful and make a dink-n-dunk, screen offense for the Bills not viable. That didn't happen.

With the game on the line and the Bills forced to go downfield, the pressure package (featuring Burgess and TBC) was hardly "manhandled".

You really need to take all 3 phases into consideration. Up until the last 5 minutes, the Pats offense was erratic and the special teams (outside of the opening kick) weren't given much opportunity to change field position. That wasn't the case in the last 5 minutes and that isn't going to be the case every week (or very often IMO).

 

[Synovia]

Re: Everyone's thoughts on ONLY the defense.....

Am I the only one who was actually happy with that defensive effort?

I thought there was A LOT more pressure than we were getting last year and at key times. They were faster, more attacking. They aren't perfect but Buffalo didn't get their first 3rd down conversion until the second half. Last year's defense gave up a LOT of 3rd down conversions.

Yeah, definitely better pass rush than last year. 4 Sacks and a ton of pressures.


The biggest issue I saw in the game was Brady's lack of touch the first 3 quarters.