Everyone's thoughts on ONLY the defense...

[BTTA]

And as I've said, the Seymour trade is going to be bad for the next two years because we get nothing in return for those two years, it may technically be just one year with Seymour's contract but at the moment, there is no return from the trade and that's what it will be until the 2011 draft.

How can you know that they won't get anything from that trade for two years?

 

[Scouse Patriot]

To be honest, sitting there at 2am staring at a surprisingly decent stream I thought we were ok all things considered. This is clearly a defence in transition, trying to form a new identity and I loved the fire in the D last night. Meriweather and Woods' determination to strip the ball at the death won us the game, plain and simple....even if it was an ST play.

Meriweather was in TO's face all night long, always talking sh!t to him and Wilforks perfect sack on Edwards (I ignored the fact they called it illegal) perfectly highlighted the fire in the big man, TBC also. The down side was there were some pretty big holes at times that allowed the Bill's offence good yardage but I also thought Edwards had a good game. Mayo's abscence didn't help matters either.

Aint got time to go into more depth but theres a foundation there to build on and hopefully we'll continue to improve and we gel and establish new leaders on D.

 

[PatriotsReign]

Re: Everyone's thoughts on ONLY the defense.....

Only the offense? Whattaya expect, Tom Brady is back and man is he on a mission. If you look at each skill player, I'll take our offense over anyone's!

 

[BTTA]

Take away the two questionable roughing penalties, give the new players some time to develop and get a half second faster on most plays, and it would have been a dominating effort by the D.

Jackson did seem like he ran through us at times, but averaged less than four yards a carry. We quickly forget the times he was stopped for less than three yards.

It was one game. They could be better next week, or worse.

Just pray for Mayo's health.

 

[vyrago]

Re: Everyone's thoughts on ONLY the defense.....

Am I the only one who was actually happy with that defensive effort?

on this board? Probably. But I liked it too. They need more time to cohere, especially if Mayo is out for some time, but they are fast and hit hard and will only get better.

 

[alvinnf]

Defense played great...... New Co-Ord. for Buffalo, who did a great job mixing in the screens and draws. This D had no clue what to expect, I thought they played well and are only getting better.

 

[patfanken]

A lot to digest this morning. This is a good thread, with a lot of divergent thoughts. Note to DI: Did you know that the Bills had 3 OLmen who hadn't played an NFL game?

Any way, here's the good - IMHO

1. I think the secondary is actually going to be very good by the end of the year. Bodden and Merriweather were excellent. Wilhite was always right with his man. I never saw the very annoying 'catches with no defender in sight plays' that we saw last year way too often,

2. I though the job the OLBs did on the sweeps was excellent. Sometimes the plays worked, but not because of the OLB play.

3. The run defense was good not great.

Here's the bad

1. I was upset that the Pats staff didn't make an adjustment to the screens and underneath passes that they left open by design. There ARE coverages that will shut that stuff DOWN, but they never used one, even as a change up.

2. There was no rush early on, and I would have to look at game tape to figure out WHY it seemed more effective late in the game.

As a whole, I think "work in progress" is a safe term. I DO think this defense is faster, and more athletic than last season. I DO think that the amount of changes has affected the play and it will be interesting to see how it evolves, but the secondary is VASTLY improved.

Note to DI - I would like to point out that in 2001 the Pats WON a superbowl with 2 OTs that had never played an NFL game prior to the start of the season

 

[RoughingthePasser]

1. Seymour left a BIG hole.

2. Pryor didn't play.

3. Mayo off the field is not good. Esp. right now.


4. Merriweather is looking better and Leigh Bodden played like we needed.

5.. We need to continue to rough the passer and try to wreck teams.
Pozsluzcxycy went out and a few other guys....check out the injury report for the Bills.
As long as our defense can hurt people-I'm happy.Vince, Adalius, Cain, Burgess, Green, Wright, Guyton etc. all played hard and aggressive. Esp. Vince and Adalius!

You gotta Rough that Passer!

 

[satz]

Plan to beat the defence

1)Run at green after sealing Vince and Ty
2)Seal Vince and Ty and Screen pass in green Side
3)Inside screen again going to green side


I do not expect a seymour play from green but he needs to play the run a little better. SD game plan last night was double seymour all game. I do not expect that from green but i want him to play better in 1 on 1 matchup .Their rookie tackle was having a feild against green . scares me what a good LT is going to do to him.

 

[Easywolf32]

Our D-Line didnt look too impressive until the final moments.

Our LB Core didnt look too impressive as a whole.

Our secondary was better, especially Meriweather and Bodden.

Grade: D+

Overall: Needs more practise together and maybe an upgrade or 2 during the season.

 

[capetide]

Re: Everyone's thoughts on ONLY the defense.....

Bodden looks like he will be a nice addition to the D.

Tully looks reborn. There were some flashes from Burgess. They got to the passer when they absolutely needed to so it's something to build on.

Did Brace even play tonight? He was the one rookie I was looking forward to seeing and I didn't notice him in the game at all.

If Mayo is out for any extended time (IR) then it's a big problem but that's stating the obvious. Lets hope it's not too bad.

Seymour has looked pretty good tonight. It's hard to feel completely comfortable with the trade until there's something tangible (on the field) to show for Seymour but I wasn't completely discouraged with our D line play either.

There is upside in guys like Butler, Brace and Chung, among others, so while it could be a tough few weeks there's a chance that the D is at its most vulnerable right now and could evolve into a pretty good group by the end of the year. Maybe not elite, but good enough. I was pretty encouraged by their last 2 plays tonight. They finished the game on the right note.

The D is a work in progress. The Patriots made a choice. and hope to rely on an offense that will outscore the other team until the defensive unit gradually matures. While the run D was concerning at times, (especially the tackling), the DB's coverage was very encouraging. And I love the hitting.

Re: Seymour. He looked good last night. He was playing like he had somethng to prove. As much as I like him, there were too many times as a Patriot that he played like he had nothing to prove.

 

[mayoclinic]

Am I the only one who was actually happy with that defensive effort?

I thought there was A LOT more pressure than we were getting last year and at key times. They were faster, more attacking. They aren't perfect but Buffalo didn't get their first 3rd down conversion until the second half. Last year's defense gave up a LOT of 3rd down conversions.

Seriously this is a young, fast defense that is only going to get better and they were playing without their most pivotal player in Mayo.

Get a grip. Division matches mean NOTHING in terms of gauging a team's strengths because rivalries and the resulting emotions can really energize a team. Remember how the Patriots would beat the Bills back in the 90s despite being the clearly less-talented team?[/QUOTE

A lot to digest this morning. This is a good thread, with a lot of divergent thoughts. Note to DI: Did you know that the Bills had 3 OLmen who hadn't played an NFL game?

Any way, here's the good - IMHO

1. I think the secondary is actually going to be very good by the end of the year. Bodden and Merriweather were excellent. Wilhite was always right with his man. I never saw the very annoying 'catches with no defender in sight plays' that we saw last year way too often,

2. I though the job the OLBs did on the sweeps was excellent. Sometimes the plays worked, but not because of the OLB play.

3. The run defense was good not great.

Here's the bad

1. I was upset that the Pats staff didn't make an adjustment to the screens and underneath passes that they left open by design. There ARE coverages that will shut that stuff DOWN, but they never used one, even as a change up.

2. There was no rush early on, and I would have to look at game tape to figure out WHY it seemed more effective late in the game.

As a whole, I think "work in progress" is a safe term. I DO think this defense is faster, and more athletic than last season. I DO think that the amount of changes has affected the play and it will be interesting to see how it evolves, but the secondary is VASTLY improved.

Note to DI - I would like to point out that in 2001 the Pats WON a superbowl with 2 OTs that had never played an NFL game prior to the start of the season

First, I was relatively happy with the defensive performance in the game based on what I saw (which was only the second half), and given some of the mitigating circumstances: the loss of Seymour (I assume it will take a bit of time for the DL to compensate for losing it's senior member and arguably best player) and the loss of Mayo for the game. I've repeatedly said that I expect the defense to be a work in progress up to the bye week and to perhaps cost us a game or two before it comes together. The defense showed a lot of flashes and some enticing promise, but also a lot of areas needing work.

As Patfanken notes, I was very pleased overall with the secondary, which I think is going to be vastly improved over last year. Meriweather was a stud and showed signs that he is ready to step into Rodney's shoes. Bodden looks like the best CB we have had since Asante Samuel left. Butler almost make a couple of big plays. There was better speed, athleticism, hitting and tackling than I've seen in some time. Sanders is still just average, and I'm hoping that Pat Chung develops quickly and challenges him sooner rather than later.

The LBs didn't do too badly given the loss of Mayo and that they were considered the weak area of the team to begin with. Guyton filled in nicely. Obviously, we need our defensive leader on the field. But the speed and physicality were evident.

The DL was the weakest part of our defense. Perhaps that reflects the importance of Seymour and how big his loss will be; perhaps it is just reflective of needing some time to make an adjustment. But I thought our run defense was not up to par, with Fred Jackson getting way too much yardage, and I expected much more dominance of our DL against the Bill's inexperienced young OL. I didn't think it was a strong game overall from Wilfork. I would like to see more of Ron Brace along with Wilfork clogging up the middle.

I agree with the poor containment of screen plays and underneath stuff from the Bills, but I think Mayo would have helped a lot there.

At the end of the game, when the Bills got the ball back with 50 seconds, I saw a defense which was jacked up wanting the challenge of shutting down the opponents with the game on the line, and rising to the occasion. When we needed to get the ball back into TB's hands, our defensive players on STs found a way. Those things pleased me.

There's a lot of work to be done, and the defense is still a work in progress. I would give it a B+ given the mitigating circumstances. I know this is a thread about the defense, but that's a much higher grade than I would give to our offensive performance prior to the last 2 drives.

 

[letekro]

Re: Everyone's thoughts on ONLY the defense.....

As I said in the another thread, I think that after sitting back and thinking about it out of the moment of emotion, the defense performed a lot better than it may seem. Look at the Bills offensive possessions:

1. 0 first downs, punt
2. 3 first downs, TD
3. 1 first down, punt
4. 1 first down, punt
5. 1 first down, punt
6. 1 first down, FG
7. 5 first downs, TD
8. 1 first down, game ends

Now out of these 8 possessions, 4 of them were not only defensive stops, but they were very good defensive stops, allowing only 0 or 1 first downs before stopping the Bills. The 4th quarter drive sticks out like a sore thumb as a black mark, but the rest of the game the defense played well to very well.

What is that I see there?! Facts!? Remove those unsightly blemishes from this forum forthwith!

 

[patsox23]

Re: Everyone's thoughts on ONLY the defense.....

My only thoughts on the defense are these, one good, one bad:

1) They only gave up 17 points. Sure, it's a team with an all-new OL, but T.O. and Lee Evans are a good tandem and Fred Jackson is a solid back. 17 points (and VERY little TOP, 'though the offense helped with that) is a good job by any stretch.

2) WHY DO I know the other team's going to screen us to death, especially on 3rd and long, but somehow the defense doesn't? And, yes, this is the ONE example of my lifetime where my complaint will loosely translate to, "Why am I smarter than Bill Belichick?" I honestly don't understand. They're DEFINITELY going to throw a screen here. And then they do. And somehow we're caught flatfooted. I'm baffled.

 

[pencilneckgeek]

My biggest concern continues to be the lack of pass rush until the other team is in 100% pass mode. Even on 3rd and long plays, there wasn't much pressure. I don't know how much of this is the scheme where DTs read run before going after the QB, but too often we'd see TBC and Burgess getting behind the QB while little to no push came up the middle, or worse, the DTs got moved out of the way. Without some pressure from the inside, it's too easy for QBs to step up.

This lack of pass rush turned into a weakness on draws and screens. It looked to me like a total lack of discipline. As soon as a path to the QB opened up, the frustrated DLmen would race upfield and take themselves out of the play. I think much the same thing happened with AD making his sack with too much enthusiasm for the red stripes. He let his frustration get the better of him and he made a big hit after the whistle. It was a borderline call for sure and a difficult situation raised by that stupid in-the-grasp rule, but he should have retained his discipline. The pass rush and that sort of frustration shouldn't be related, but they were last night, and it almost cost them the game.

 

[condon84]

The lack of pass rush exposed our LBs in coverage. AD looked slow and lost at times in coverage. I'd rather have him rushing the passer but then who do we put out there in coverage? Can we have Alexander out there covering? (Nightmare images of the Indy game). I wonder how Chung would look out there playing S/LB hybrid as a coverman. He didn't look great against WRs, but you'd think he has the speed to cover RBs and TEs.

Guyton couldn't make the play on those two screens. There were blockers out there, so I can't solely blame him. I think that was a function of great play call on offense against what we called on defense.

Our secondary wasn't really tested all that much. What I saw of Bodden I liked. Springs and Wilhite looked competitive. Butler almost made a great INT (love this kid).

Merriweather and Sanders played two-deep for the most part of the game, so they were effectively taken out. Merriweather had some nice hits though and that great strip.

Lastly, our pass rush was non-existant in the first half. The second half they showed up a little bit. It's a concern especially since the BIlls' OL consisted of three untested rookies in the interior. Wilfork got double-teamed but Warren was left one-on-one and he couldn't do anything against his guy. I expected more from him.

 

[Deus Irae]

Re: Everyone's thoughts on ONLY the defense.....

And you don't think the above is a large part of the reason all the soft stuff was open ? Yes that is usually the weakness of our defense but doubling Owens impacts that. Edwards didn't play scared and I think you're wrong about their best RB missing the game.

1.) No

2.) He plays scared. In this game, he was able to take his time and make plays instead of being his usual self. That's pretty much the point about him.

3.) Lynch is their best running back.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Re: Everyone's thoughts on ONLY the defense.....

Overall not a bad defensive effort with all things considered. First game after losing key leadership and veterans and biggest of all IMO was the loss of Mayo. Like you said, I like the way they hit and got after Edwards especially the last drive of the game. Wilfork looked pi$$ed out there tonight and not just about the lame call. He looked angry!

I have never seen Wilfork not look angry on the field. He just pile drives anybody he can.

Unfortunately that is why teams will snitch him out to the refs for the rest of his career.

 

[5 Rings for Brady!!]

Re: Everyone's thoughts on ONLY the defense.....

My only thoughts on the defense are these, one good, one bad:

1) They only gave up 17 points. Sure, it's a team with an all-new OL, but T.O. and Lee Evans are a good tandem and Fred Jackson is a solid back. 17 points (and VERY little TOP, 'though the offense helped with that) is a good job by any stretch.

2) WHY DO I know the other team's going to screen us to death, especially on 3rd and long, but somehow the defense doesn't? And, yes, this is the ONE example of my lifetime where my complaint will loosely translate to, "Why am I smarter than Bill Belichick?" I honestly don't understand. They're DEFINITELY going to throw a screen here. And then they do. And somehow we're caught flatfooted. I'm baffled.

2) Why do I think the game plan was to limit TO and Evans and it seemed to work. As far as you being smarter than.....

 

[SeymourTrophies]

The best thing that could have happened to us was the fumble. Not only because we needed the ball but also because our defense didn't come onto the field.

Earlier on, I thought we were bailed out a few times by drops and penalties. We can't rely on either of those. We have known that this D is slow from sideline to sideline for the last few seasons. It was evident last night when jackson shredded us. Hopefully this was because of the coverage on evans and owens. Maybe the corners are there to make those plays against a different WR corps.

One relieving thing was that we didn't let the Bills get in field goal range because our pass rush got there. Banta-Cain absolutely shredded his man on every play during the Bills' last possession. That's a phenomenon that hasn't been seen in Foxboro for many, many moons.