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"Everybody gets happy when your country is winning something"

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by QuiGon, Jun 28, 2006.

  1. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    The ultra-liberal Boston Globe has an article today about how happy local Brazilians are that their soccer team is doing so well in the World Cup. My favorite quote comes from young Pedro Resende, who says: "Everybody gets happy when your country is winning something."

    Gee, Pedro, if Brazil is "your country" then what the heck are you doing in Framingham..? See, people like Pedro will come to America and gladly take our money and free health care, but never let it be forgotten that they hate our country and will never adapt to being an American. Rather they are trying to turn America into whatever cesspool they came from.

    Some will call me a bigot for my remarks, but don't shoot the messenger. I guess I just don't want to see the United States become a third world country (are there any latino countries that aren't considered Third World..?) but what do you expect when you import tens of millions of empoverished Latinos..? So why do we think the United States will be any different...? How much longer are we Americans going to freely subsidize the poorest of the poor of the Western Hemisphere..? Where's the part in the Constitution that says one of the purposes of government is to give a hand out to every illegal Mexican, Brazilian, Guatamalan, Haitian, etc, that happens to get past our ridiculously insecure border..?

    Oh, and I'll bet you dollars to donuts that Pedro doesn't have his citizenship papers either, but that's just hunch. It's probably 50/50.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2006
  2. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    If you were to move to Dallas, would you become a Cowboys fan? Why not, you live there? To remain a fan of the Patriots would be wrong. They would have every right to run you out of Texas.

    If you were to move to Spain, would you root for Spain to win the World Cup? Why not? You live there. To root for the USA would be treasonous.

    Not only is your post bigoted, it isn't even logical. There's a lot of Americans who's ancestors are from Holland, Japan, Iran, Ukraine, Portugal, etc. Why shouldn't those people support those countries is something as trivial as a soccer match?
     
  3. patsfan13

    patsfan13 Hall of Fame Poster PatsFans.com Supporter

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    A football team is one thing. My mom and fathers grandparents came from Ireland. They didn't think Ireland was their country, the saw themselves as Americans.
     
  4. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    OK. The lameness of that analogy demonstrates the weakness of your argument.
    See, that's the point. I would not ever move to Spain because I love my country and I love being where I am right now. But if I ever decided to voluntarily leave America for a better life elsewhere then I would do everything I possibly could do adapt to my new country including learn their language, learn their customs and I would proudly support my new homeland in international competition. I would never move to some other country and raise my old country's colors over and above the hosts who have generously taken me in.
    Sorry, but I haven't seen any Rising Suns, Union Jacks or Dutch Windmills flying around Framingham and Marlborough these past 3 weeks.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2006
  5. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    Dude, it's a soccer match.

    My father was born in Greece, came here when he was 17. He roots for Greece in soccer matches and the Olympics. He served in the U.S. army in Viet Nam, and is a US citizen. He pays his taxes, and we spoke English in the house growing up. He roots for the Patriots and the Bruins.

    Seriously, what's your point? Root for the U.S. or get out?

    Is it an illegal immigration issue? Fine, 99% of this board agrees that we need to tighten up our immigration practices. Is it a welfare issue? Is it the possibility of Spanish as another official language?

    All of these are legit arguments that most people here will agree with you on. But using the World Cup as a basis for your argument is stupid.

    Yes, you never want to move outside the U.S. That's wonderful. It's because we have it good here. A college-age man or woman from Brazil, where the minimum wage is two dollars a day doesn't share your insulated perspective that the country you were born in is the best place to live.

    So what's your point?
     
  6. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    In this instance it is a soccer match. But these symptoms are very representative of so much that is wrong with the immigration policies of the United States.
    Then may God bless your father for doing it the right way. See, ultimately this isn't about who you root for in a soccer match. This is about hundreds of thousands of people coming into our country illegally, usurping our resources, giving nothing in return, refusing to assimilate and showing nothing but contempt for their adopted homeland.
    My ultimate point is that illegal immigration will do more to damage our country than any other issue facing us today. This is because we are creating a country that is completely divided against itself. How can a country survive when you have to face language barriers on a regular basis..? A subtext to this point is I am sick of seeing more Brazilian, Puerto Rican and Mexican flags when I drive from Waltham to Framingham to Marlborough than I do American flags.

    But I guess that just makes me a bigot. Silly me. I always thought the United States of America belonged to Americans but it really belongs to any and every illegal that decides to raise his colors here.
     
  7. PatsFanInEaglesLand

    PatsFanInEaglesLand In the Starting Line-Up

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    #37 Jersey

    Your first comment is just plain stupid............................ considering you support such people like Ramsey Clark, Cindy Sheehan, Cythia McKinney and John Conyers all democrat bigots.

    But you right about your second comment, my wife is Canadian and she loves her home country and also her new one(well 13 years), but will root for Canada in such things as Olympics or other sporting events, so what should I do kick her out of that house for that?
     
  8. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    Again, most people here would agree with your larger points of cracking down on illegal aliens and stop bending over backwards to accomodate Spanish speakers. Including myself.

    But to blast all Latin Americans in this country for rooting for a country besides the US in a soccer tournament is misguided. I mean, the guy quoted could have been a student. He might work here (Pedro Martinez would probably be rooting for the Dominican Republic if they were in it), Could have been on vacation visiting family. May have even lived here all his life. But because Pedro is celebrating a Brazil win, it's somehow an excuse to blast Latin Americans as being lazy, dirty, animals looking for a free ride.

    THAT'S why it's a bigoted response.
     
  9. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Maybe Pedro's Brazilian.
     
  10. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    See here's your problem: You're responding to your interpretation of my remarks but not to what I actually said.

    Please tell me where I called Latin Americans "lazy, dirty animals looking for a free ride". Whoops..!! You can't..!!

    But that was a nice try at putting words in my mouth. (Actually, it kinda really wasn't).

    Addendum: This is actually a very good case study at why you just can't argue with liberals.
    What I said: "Gee, I don't want America to turn into a 3rd World Country"
    What he heard: "Latin Americans are being lazy, dirty, animals looking for a free ride..!!"
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2006
  11. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Oh, c'monn, you know nobody was putting words in your mouth. The issue is that you went on an anti-immigrant rant based on a soccer example which really doesn't back up your point. Even if everything you said about immigrants is true (most of which Dryheat conceded), the soccer example doesn't hold water (for the reasons Dryheat mentioned).

    So, at this point (if we're still sticking with the soccer thing) you can argue your example is a valid example of America's immigration problem, or you can admit you were making a tennous connection.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 7, 2005
  12. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    okay, we'll use your words, boldface mine.... "See, people like Pedro will come to America and gladly take our money and free health care, but never let it be forgotten that they hate our country and will never adapt to being an American. Rather they are trying to turn America into whatever cesspool they came from." Looks pretty close to me.


    Thank you.

    Actually, it was a pretty accurate paraphrase. You just chose not to use the quote I was referring to. And I know you didn't call me a liberal directly. But so you know, I'm not when it comes to immigration. I'm an isolationist.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 7, 2005
  13. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    Well I am glad to hear most people agree with the basic premise of a lot of what I said. And while you may not like the soccer connection, let's just call it the straw that broke the camel's back to set me off a rantin' and a ravin'.

    I don't like the fact that I see and hear Spanish everywhere I go and regularly have a conversation with someone who has difficulty understanding me. I don't like that fact that there are more Mexican, Puerto Rican and Brazilian flags in this state than American flags. I also don't like the fact that if the U.S. beat Brazil in the World Cup and I waved an American flag I would get my ass kicked (not that the U.S. will be beating Brazil anytime in our lifetimes).

    The soccer connection is a symptom of a larger problem. I just wish more people could see it.
     
  14. sdaniels7114

    sdaniels7114 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    I think its worth pointing out that if the guy in the story was, in fact, making no effort to adapt to America he would have said "Todos começa feliz quando seu país está ganhando algo,"

    Which btw is Portuguese for: 'Everybody gets happy when your country is winning something.' Portuguese is, of course, the language they speak in Brazil, not English, and most certainly the language this 'non-meltingpotter' would have spoken from birth.

    EDITED to add: I find it highly amusing that if this guy had made his comments in Portuguese instead of English, Qui Gon wouldn't have bothered to look up what he was saying and therefore wouldn't have been offended by the remark and wouldn't have started this thread.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2006
  15. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    You may find it "highly amusing" but your statement is incorrect. I am just as offended at the complete absence of English from the vocabulary of an ever-increasing number of people who live in this country (note I said "people who live here" and not "citizens").

    You are fools if you don't realize how throughout history such divisions have destroyed nations. Seriously... do some research on the subject sometime (unless you're afraid you might actually learn something)...
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2006
  16. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    NOW you're being a bigot. I can understand you watching out for the healthcare dollars, lost jobs, or other social impacts of illegal immigration, but talking Spanish? It's a free ******* country! A lot of people who speak Spanish came here legally, or were born here to legal immigrants, and they have a right to converse in any language they want. What the hell do you care what language people are conversing in if they aren't talking to you? Do you get The Fear because you don't feel like you're around your own people anymore? Learn Spanish (you know, know your enemy) and wave an American flag all you want, but you're never going to rid America of the Spanish language.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2006
  17. QuiGon

    QuiGon Banned

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    I wear your contempt as a badge of honor, sir.
    Did you actually read my post, or are you just using a random sentence generator to respond...?

    I said I hate it when I go somewhere (here in the United States of America) and have to deal with people on an everyday basis that have no clue whatsoever what I am saying. Fortunately I don't come across many such people in my professional life, but it makes every trip to Dunkin' Donuts a crapshoot.

    I also said that history is replete with such instances of nations being permanently damaged and/or destroyed when such divisions are allowed to continue (and I challenge you to do some research - unless you're afraid you might actually learn something..?).

    Generally speaking, I don't care what language they speak when not talking to me but I do find it contemptable when they come to America, don't even try to learn the English language and don't even try to teach their children the English language. Oh, but they'll gladly take my American dollars, free health care and public housing.... (and the preceeding paragraph applies to any immigrant of any nation, be they Latino, European, Asian or Martian).

    If I ever went elsewhere in search of a better life, my #1 priority would be to assimilate as best I can into the country of the hosts who have graciously taken me in. But I guess that's just me.

    Post Script: What makes you so sure I can't speak Spanish...? If I told you I could, would that make my comments any more valid in your eyes...?
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2006
  18. Pujo

    Pujo Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    At least you've got that.

    You're the one making a pretty big claim here, why don't you do some research and show me what you find? Actual sources please, not political commentary.

    What the hell is that, a theoretical question? Do you or don't you speak Spanish, or do you just want to beat around the bush and leave the possibility open?
     
  19. The Gr8est

    The Gr8est In the Starting Line-Up

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    "Everybody gets happy when your country is winning something"

    Unless you're a liberal in the United States and what your country is winning is the war in Iraq with Bush as Commander-In-Chief"
     
  20. dryheat44

    dryheat44 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    Hmmm. Let me know when that happens. I'm still unclear on what constitutes "winning the war in Iraq", personally.

    But I think you're wrong. I think even the leftist of the left here would be ecstatic if this statement were true.
     

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