Evaluating what we need in free agency

[PatsFan2]

Many want to add youth???????? I guess they just haven't reviewed the roster. The ILB's are composed of two 2008 rookies and a veteran. We can/should add a draftee. The OLB's are composed of two veterans, a 4th-year player and several youngsters. There are those who here who think that we need to improve on Vrabel and Thomas outside. I strongly disagree. We have the past, present and future at linebacker on the team. This is again a strength. Let's face the fact that the front office has solved the problem at ILB.

If you think Mike Vrabel can still play at a High level as a Starter outside...you didn't really see manny of games last season. Geez Mike Vrabel is shell of his former self and he'll be 34 next year.That statistical dip he had in Tackles and Sacks last season is sign of things to come. We have gotten just about all we can out of Mike and he was Great player for us but if he's Starting for us at OLB in 2009 we are in trouble. Mike just doesn't have that Speed off the Edge he had over a year ago...Tackles and TE's had a very easy time Blocking him all year something that was unthinkable in the past. I like what i saw from Pierre Woods last year and i hope Shawn Crable can contribute some. Pierre Woods have the kind of speed we need but i don't know how much BB like him as a Starter. I hope the Pats Draft a DE/OLB hybrid type early on a guy who can bring the heat like AD. This Defense is a Pass Rusher away from once again being very prominent.

 

[Fencer]

BOTTOM LINE
We have a team ready to compete in the Super Bowl hunt. There are the normal one position that need real work: corner and safety. I think that we can deal with safety position with re-signs or free agency. We will have five picks in the top 100 picks of a great draft. We need to use our cap money to keep the franchise going. We need to extend our players: Seymour, Wilfork, Green, Hobbs, and Mankins (and possibly Faulk, Light and/or Vrabel). On Day One I would be looking at C, S, ILB and a G (to replace on of those leaving in 2009).

Assuming that "C" was a typo for "CB", I basically agree.

There's no assurance Seymour will be re-signed, so it might make sense to draft one of those DL who wind up being tried at NT before shifting to DE, like pretty much all recent Patriot DEs have. (We could use an upgrade in the give-Wilfork-a-breather position anyway.)

But CB and SS are clearly greater needs. ILB (Guyton hasn't proved it yet) and TE (Watson may be gone soon) are also legitimate areas for attention in a draft apparently strong at those positions.

 

[mgteich]

I fixed the typo, although I do believe that an OG (who is also a backup center) is a Day One need. However this need is not higher the safety, corner, or backup NT. It is one of my four needs to address before the end of the Day One of the draft.

Assuming that "C" was a typo for "CB", I basically agree.

There's no assurance Seymour will be re-signed, so it might make sense to draft one of those DL who wind up being tried at NT before shifting to DE, like pretty much all recent Patriot DEs have. (We could use an upgrade in the give-Wilfork-a-breather position anyway.)

But CB and SS are clearly greater needs. ILB (Guyton hasn't proved it yet) and TE (Watson may be gone soon) are also legitimate areas for attention in a draft apparently strong at those positions.

 

[j00fek]

CB, S, OL

most will come through the draft tho

 

[slash83]

People can sit and say we have plenty of young players at the olb position and isnt a top priority but the fact is nobody knows what were going to get out of those players. You can sit and say the same that we wont know either even if we draft an olb/de in round 1 but Crable was a 3rd round pick who never even saw the feild even when he was healthy.

A pass rusher is the number one priority imo somebody who can harass the qb on passing plays somebody who has to be accounted for and recognized before the snap. Vrabez double digit sack season are over hes going to be another year older next season, AD is still really good. Besides the NT LB's are what make a 34 d go not dbs, take a look at the steelers lbs and how much fun they are to watch flying around making impact plays after plays.

 

[MetalBleachers]

I'm not sure what you mean by an OK tight end. I suspect that Belichick thinks we have at least two already. However, DeVree could certainly be upgraded. Competition from a Day 2 TE or an OK freee agent TE is fine. Neither of these would replace Watson or Thomas. They are free agents in 2010, and their production hasn't been impressive, so some see a higher need.

Free agent pool looks slim. Second-day picks include:
Brandon Myers*|*Iowa,*TE*:*2009 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile

Anthony Hill*|*North Carolina State,*TE*:*2009 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile

Both guys can block, get open and catch the ball! :woohoo:

 

[Mack Herron]

Funny thing is that Thomas was a dominant receiver in college. He knows the passing game and has great hands. Did they find another Chad Jackson, or arethey just not using him effectively? For all the talk about coaches putting players in position to do what they do well, I find his situation mysterious.

 

[DW Toys]

To address in free agency and draft:
Strong safety, cornerback, offensive tackle

Yes!

Perhaps a TE that can catch.
DW Toys.

 

[DW Toys]

Funny thing is that Thomas was a dominant receiver in college. He knows the passing game and has great hands. Did they find another Chad Jackson, or arethey just not using him effectively? For all the talk about coaches putting players in position to do what they do well, I find his situation mysterious.

Great post.
DW Toys

 

[VJCPatriot]

Here is the list of 2009 free agents:

2009 NFL Free Agents

If you're looking to upgrade the offensive line there are some guys available...

Mike Goff, UFA, San Diego Chargers G
While the Chargers would probably prefer to keep Goff, the franchise has been effective in drafting and developing linemen and might look for Goff’s replacement at a better price. Goff has been a leader who simply goes about his business and players like running back Ladainian Tomlinson have benefited from his level of play. Goff has played for a quality line for some time and he’s a big part of the equation when it comes to success.

Jordan Gross, UFA, Carolina Panthers T
A first round pick in 2003, Gross earned a starting role in his rookie season and held that role as a tackle for the entire season. His ability to step in and play well right away paid off for the Panthers, as the team put together a run to an NFC Championship that season. He’s continued being a starter since that rookie season and is a solid player. Carolina slapped the franchise tag on him for this season, and chances are he will be another team come ’09.

For LB, Dansby and Suggs top the list.

For DB, Mike Brown and Dunta Robinson are interesting options as well.

If the Pats don't fill needs via draft, free agency has a few guys who can fit the bill, although they will demand market prices to sign.

 

[Schmo]

As a Fresno State fan, I could see us grabbing Bear Pascoe in the middle to late rounds. Big, 6' 5" 260 lb TE who was the most reliable reciever on the team. Great blocker too. Considering the Belichick/Hill connection, he might be a real possibility.

 

[mayoclinic]

A pass rusher is the number one priority imo somebody who can harass the qb on passing plays somebody who has to be accounted for and recognized before the snap. Vrabez double digit sack season are over hes going to be another year older next season, AD is still really good. Besides the NT LB's are what make a 34 d go not dbs, take a look at the steelers lbs and how much fun they are to watch flying around making impact plays after plays.

I think we need both a major shift in our defensive approach and an upgrade in key areas, especially the pass rush. We can't count on Vrabel being more than a role player. Woods is a great STer but will never be a Lamar Woodley type of disruptor. Crable, Redd and Robertson all have potential but haven't shown anything. A disruptive defense with an aggressive pass rush and multiple schemes is what we need, not a soft "prevent" defense where the DBs give a wide cushion and the front 7 generates no pressure. I'm really tired of the Jay Feeleys and Seneca Wallaces having career games against us.

 

[mgteich]

No one on Day Two is anywhere near the prospect that Thomas was coming out of college. But it matters not; I ahve no problem with drafting a TE to compete with DeVree in the 4th or 5th round.

Free agent pool looks slim. Second-day picks include:
Brandon Myers*|*Iowa,*TE*:*2009 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile

Anthony Hill*|*North Carolina State,*TE*:*2009 NFL Draft Scout Player Profile

Both guys can block, get open and catch the ball! :woohoo:

 

[MetalBleachers]

As a Fresno State fan, I could see us grabbing Bear Pascoe in the middle to late rounds. Big, 6' 5" 260 lb TE who was the most reliable reciever on the team. Great blocker too. Considering the Belichick/Hill connection, he might be a real possibility.

Not the smoothest of athletes, but if he's available in the late fourth they might take a chance with him. My only concern is that his lack of quickness means he'd have trouble getting open vs. NFL defenders.

 

[Schmo]

Not the smoothest of athletes, but if he's available in the late fourth they might take a chance with him. My only concern is that his lack of quickness means he'd have trouble getting open vs. NFL defenders.

I guess my point is that if they do take a "chance" on him, it's a good sign, because Pat Hill will give BB the inside scoop. i.e. Mankins and Sanders (hey, he's a 4th rounder and a consistent starter). If Pascoe gets a good recommendation, I could see him being taken earlier than projected ala Mayo or the aforementioned Mankins. I would just love to see a 260 lb TE chipping on pass plays and plowing on run plays.

I still think that we need to concentrate on D (maybe OL) in FA and the early rounds. One thing that is diminishing on our defense is attitude. Thank God we have Mayo, because he's one mean SOB, but with Harrison possibly leaving, we need someone else who will pound some skulls. Rodney being a great player and also committing so many penalties are very related in my mind. I see a lot of our defense doing their jobs and doing them well, but not many that want to punish the offense. There always seems to be a "bend not break" attitude. Hobbs and Wilfork (Meriweather is getting mean too) come to mind as other players that consider a good defense to be the best offense. Finding someone like this, at ANY position on D would be a tremendous boost to our team.

Now when I think of it, in terms of attitude, Asante is one of those players. He has always been an a**hole......... God I miss him.

 

[n8wood]

I'd like to see us draft a 1st round OLB that can bring a mean pass rush to compliment AD. Even if they are only in for passing downs initially. Vrable isn't what he used to be as a rusher, but still effectively sets the edge which I don't think would be easy for a rookie to immediately pick up. Crable is intriguing, but he hasn't shown anything yet. I don't know if there are any OLB FA's that would fit.

A CB would be nice in the 1st if we feel the talent is significantly better than the two developmental players (Wilhite/Wheatley) that we've got there. Otherwise I say we pick up a mid-range FA and stick with what we have for another year. I am in the camp that believes our lack of pass rush is what held back our pass D.

After that, I'd like to see us draft a top safety with a 2nd rounder. Resign J. Sanders and L. Sanders for depth.

A day one ILB would also be nice, but I seriously think we should bring back Seau. The defense seemed to solidify with him in there. I don't care how old he is, the defense is just better with him in there over Teddy.

Our TE situation could be improved, but only with a top prospect. Watson and Thomas's blocking game has improved, and we don't really need to rely on them in the passing game. I think we're fine here unless something falls into our lap.

I agree OL should be addressed in the draft. Top OL FA's are too expensive now, it makes sense to bring in prospects to groom.

I just realized this was somewhat OT since it's mostly draft talk.

 

[Patsrock]

If you think Mike Vrabel can still play at a High level as a Starter outside...you didn't really see manny of games last season. Geez Mike Vrabel is shell of his former self and he'll be 34 next year.That statistical dip he had in Tackles and Sacks last season is sign of things to come. We have gotten just about all we can out of Mike and he was Great player for us but if he's Starting for us at OLB in 2009 we are in trouble. Mike just doesn't have that Speed off the Edge he had over a year ago...Tackles and TE's had a very easy time Blocking him all year something that was unthinkable in the past. I like what i saw from Pierre Woods last year and i hope Shawn Crable can contribute some. Pierre Woods have the kind of speed we need but i don't know how much BB like him as a Starter. I hope the Pats Draft a DE/OLB hybrid type early on a guy who can bring the heat like AD. This Defense is a Pass Rusher away from once again being very prominent.

Actually Vrabel tackles and sacks are more line in 2008 with his career. 2007 was his bump in sacks. I agree they need to get someone to take over, but I still think Vrabel can be a starter.

 

[DaBruinz]

Heaven knows they might do that, but the whole "plan years ahead thing" doesn't explain drafting Jerod Mayo. I think the Pats can get OL help in the mid-rounds this year as well as one free agent.

There are some cases where they draft for the "NOW" because best value available fits. The only real case is Mayo. People will point to Mankins and others, but they forget that Mankins started TC as the #2 LT, not the #1 LG. In many cases, the Pats try to draft for the future, such as with Graham, Wilfork, Watson, Maroney, Warren, etc, etc.

 

[DaBruinz]

The real money needs to be spent on a pass rusher (Suggs, Peppers) or a Bart Scott to pair back up with AD to really solidy the middle-4. Our lack of a pass rush this year really hurt in a number of games. And this has to be our #1 focus along with another safety to pair up with (Brandon, Rodney - yes I feel Rodney comes back for one more go around with TB) in a 3-man rotation after Sanders moves on. The safety will have to come from the draft as there really isn't going to be much available in FA. (Will Moore) or a trade up for (Taylor Mays) would take care of this. I'm hoping a Vikings deal is in the works for Cassel that would allow us to land their #1 which would really give BB the ammo to deal our 3rd and a 1 up into the top 12 to land Mays. Taylor Mays and Merriweather would be the next Dennis Smith/Steve Atwater, they would be unbelievable together. Or we sit tight and hope Will Moore falls to us and he becomes the 3rd guy in the rotation.

Taylor Mays is returning to USC, so he's no longer an option.

Getting back to the Pass rush though. People need to remember that the Patriots Pass Rush of old was successful because the rush could come from ANY of the 4 LB spots. This past year, they were hampered because they couldn't rush from the 2 inside spots and the carousel at OLB opposite Vrabel. When you only have one position where you are rushing from, you aren't going to be successful. They held Mayo back from rushing the passer, for the most part, because they needed his ability in coverage. Bruschi doesn't have the speed anymore to rush the Passer. Neither does Seau.

This is why I feel that another ILB is more important than an OLB. The Pats have Vrabel and Thomas at OLB. They should also have Woods and Redd at the very least. They could also have Robertson as a dark-horse project. They don't really have anyone to pair with Mayo. Guyton, for all his work, is better as a Roman Phifer type sub. He's not a SILB. And neither is Mayo. The Pats need that SILB to pair with Mayo. Until they get that, their "pass rush" is going to be limited to just the OLBs. And that just isn't as effective.

 

[DaBruinz]

If you think Mike Vrabel can still play at a High level as a Starter outside...you didn't really see manny of games last season. Geez Mike Vrabel is shell of his former self and he'll be 34 next year.That statistical dip he had in Tackles and Sacks last season is sign of things to come. We have gotten just about all we can out of Mike and he was Great player for us but if he's Starting for us at OLB in 2009 we are in trouble. Mike just doesn't have that Speed off the Edge he had over a year ago...Tackles and TE's had a very easy time Blocking him all year something that was unthinkable in the past. I like what i saw from Pierre Woods last year and i hope Shawn Crable can contribute some. Pierre Woods have the kind of speed we need but i don't know how much BB like him as a Starter. I hope the Pats Draft a DE/OLB hybrid type early on a guy who can bring the heat like AD. This Defense is a Pass Rusher away from once again being very prominent.

You don't seem to have watched many games last year or in the prior years when the Pats had a good pass rush. When they did, they were able to bring the Pass rush for any of the 4 LBer spots. When they did that, they were much better off because the defense couldn't key in on ONE player. The way they did last year with Vrabel. Oh, did I mention that Vrabel spent last year playing hurt?

The reality is that Vrabel may not be an every down player anymore, but he's still got the goods when the Pats can bring the Pass rush from any position.

This defense is a SILB away from being prominent more than a "pass rusher".