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Evaluate the Youngsters and Newcomers

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by mgteich, Aug 18, 2009.

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  1. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    NEED ONE
    There is only one serious need for the rest of the preseason: evaluate the youngsters and let them have some game competition.
    Wheatley
    Crable
    Wendel
    Brace
    Chung
    Ohrnberger
    Vollmer
    Bussey
    Pryor
    Richard
    Ninkovich
    Edelman

    NEED TWO
    We also have some veterans to evaluate
    Walter
    Lenon
    Tank Williams
    McGowan

    NEED THREE
    Get vets used to our systems
    Galloway
    Burgess
  2. patfanken

    patfanken On the Roster

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    #91 Jersey

    OK I'm game...with the understanding that my opinion has no real value and that sometimes I'm just guessing. :D

    Wheatley - The 5th CB as of now behind Springs/Boddin/Wilhite, and Butler. Short quick, looks to be most useful as a slot wr cover guy in dime packages. Someone who can stay with the OTHER teams' Welker clone. Was at one time our #2, so it shows how deep the CBs have become. Too soon, given his injury last season, to determine his ultimate potential.

    Crable - Did I mention this dude was TALL. Well last preseason, he made a very athletic pick that impressed me greatly. Cant get it out of my head. He has huge potential, and is BB'S archetype OLB...at least physically. Because of his late arrival to camp, I have no read on him whatsoever. I'll have to wait until Thursday before I get even the foggiest idea of what's going on.

    Wendel- over acheiving G/C. I can infer he's doing well, because they released Johnson. He's in the mix for a roster spot, but more likely the PS

    Brace- Playing better than advertised. More versatile, more athletic than we all expected when he was ANOTHER classic "reach" by BB. Much more than "just" back up NT. He could be the key behind the move to the 4-3 that we are seeing.

    Chung- Thank god for the preseason game, because I was worried about him, since he has worked exclusively with the 2s and 3s, and had done little to elevate him above the other rookies in camp. The preseason game made it clear WHY the Pats made him their first pick and the future looked bright.

    Ohrnberger- ANOTHER OLman I haven't got a clue about. Hopefully we'll know more when the Bengals come to town.

    Vollmer- This is one OLman I have seen more closely. He has dominant size and very quick feet for his size. Raw, but unlimited potential. His future playing time will come later in the season

    Bussey - Has he gotten on the field yet?

    Pryor- This is kind of amazing since he went from PUP to the starting line up...and the flashed some serious quicks. Maybe HE'S the reason the Pats will be willing to play more 4-3 this year....or not.

    Richard - No clue....maybe a PS candidate. Is he practicing?

    Ninkovich - I'm a little higher on him than most. My observations saw some quicks, a good first step, and the versatility to play DE, OLB, STs, and can long snap. This is the kind of guy who becomes a surprise member of the 53.

    Edelman = I'm convinced. He is an NFL receiver right now, but his place for now will be as depth behind Welker, and on special teams. More important than his return TD, was the fact he caught the ball with an eagle right in his face....and the tackle on the KO.

    NEED TWO
    We also have some veterans to evaluate

    Walter - Unless KOC completely tanks, I think he's here to learn the offense, get some snaps, take some reps, and then get cut in the final cut, and take some money to sit by the phone and wait for the unthinkable. Hoyer goes to the PS and is the emergency guy for an individual games.

    Lenon - I had great hopes when we signed him, but I don't see a place for him. He's a better ILB than Alexander, but isn't as good on special teams or in coverage....and ILB in a 3-4 is the next dying position in a pass happy league. His best chance relies on the Pats converting to the 4-3, where he'd be a legit back up to Mayo at MLB.

    Tank Williams. Another guy who mistimed his good health. He would have played a lot LAST SEASON, but this season there's no room. He's strictly a coverage ILB, and the Pats have DBs to do that.

    McGowan - He'll make the team as the 4th S, and special teams guy. I can see him being the guy who replaces the ILB on passing packages

    NEED THREE
    Get vets used to our systems

    Galloway- Kind of underwhelming in the practices I"ve seen, but I hear he's picked it up lately. He WILL be the #3 WR and speed wide out opposite Moss....at least at the start of the season.

    Burgess - also underwhelming from what I've heard from others at practices, but its still relatively early. Also another guy who fuels 4-3 rumors
  3. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    What? No Lewis in your line-up? No Nunn? No Hoyer? No Bodden? No Springs? No Jones? No Love? I can't believe you've got no Love! No Ingram? No Hodel? No Ciurciu? No Adams? No Williams? No Smith? No Baker? No DeVree? No Banta-Cain?

    This is clearly not the mgteich we've come to know. :ugh:
  4. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This is NOT a lineup. I have posted plenty of those in the past week.

    As stated it is a list of priorities with regard to watching the next three preseason games.

    I have no need for further play to evaluate the players you mentionsd except Ingram who I should have included.

  5. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    You truly do have no Love! :snob:
  6. fester

    fester Rookie

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    Question here --- is he the 5th guy because the talent above him is just so much better than last year (ie would he have been #2/#3 if the same crop of CBs from last year was on the field) or is he the 5th guy because he is a 2nd rounder in his second year but is showing very little yet?
  7. mgteich

    mgteich PatsFans.com Veteran PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The answer to you question is "yes"

  8. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Butler is getting a lot of work at Nickelback, which puts him on the outside and moves Wilhite inside. Wheatley has actually been developing as the #4 CB and has not been getting NB reps so far as I'm aware. If we base it on Training Camp, Wheatley is #4 or 5 depending on how you rank Springs whom I see as the veteran CB here to help the youngsters and handle situational work as much as for depth. Situational for Springs could have him start one week, and inactive the next. Wheatley looked a little rusty, but not too bad the other night - the problem is he's further behind because of the injury, and he lost additional ground with Butler sliding into NE's pocket in the draft. Asante 'started' at Nickelback his rookie year, which seems where Pees & Boyer want to take Butler, which is why Wheatley is now a #4/5 option on the depth chart, though I expect them to give him game reps to keep the pressure on Wilhite and Butler with Bodden here on a one year deal.
  9. Lloyd_Christmas

    Lloyd_Christmas I can delete my own crap! PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Wheatley - Could be another E.Wilson/A.Samuel scenario with Wilhite stealing the show. I haven't given up on him yet though.
    Brace - He'll make the 53 and be in the rotation.
    Chung - This guy looks like he could be the future R.Harrison replacement. Will up-end Sanders this year? Not sure. He will get a lot of playing time either way.
    Vollmer - First time I have been excited about an Olinemen in a long time.
    Pryor - This guy is a major suprise for me. Didn't see it coming, but he seems to have enough talent to not only make the team, but get significant playing time.
    Richard - I don't see him making the team
    Edelman - Any doubters left?

    Walter - I thought he looked ok in the game, but then again, my expectations were not really high given the short prep time he had. I think he has a shot at being the #3 QB.
    Tank Williams - I still like the idea of using him as a safety/LB hybrid in certain sets, but we have really juiced the defensive backfield this season, so he may be out of luck.
    Tully Banta-Cain - I think Tully easily makes the team. He looked good to me in the preseason game.

    Lewis - I just don't see him making this team.
    Galloway - So far I am unimpressed (pretty much like every else I guess). Unless Greg Lewis pulls off a miracle, he should make the team though and probably will start out as the #3 WR. He'll have to impress if he wants to remain there.
    Burgess - He just needs more time. He will be fine.
  10. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Ken--Nice breakdown, but quick question maybe Mark or Box could answer, is this a common practice? I would think it would be a major problem regarding the CBA bylaws, etc. Thanks.
  11. Gwedd

    Gwedd PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #61 Jersey

    It would be if anybody actually admitted to it. But every team does it, and no one wants to be like Mangini for ratting out coach and the video cameras.
  12. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    Ok, so it is a pretty common practice then. I just wondered as it sounded a little 'too good to be true,' almost guaranteeing a SR spot if it came down to that.

    Thanks for the answer, BTW.
  13. supafly

    supafly PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #24 Jersey

    I think this is key;)
  14. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    BB did it with Testeverde, I think it was 2006, bringing him into camp to get the playbook, then going with Brady & Cassel until November when Brady needed a veteran sounding board to help him heading into the postseason. Would Walter be willing to turn down an offer from another team and stay by the phone? I'd like to think he would see such an approach as a way to rehabilitate him in a NE uniform, but if I was Walter I'd also be tempted if another team wanted me to sit the bench behind their starter.

    The only reason to consider this approach is the chance to retain another talented young player on the roster at another position. I actually think the urgency to even consider it has lessoned now that LeKevin Smith has been traded to Denver - you can now pencil in Pryor for that opening and you have Richards, Adams, and S. Williams playing for 1-2 PSquad slots. I don't think NE needs to be concerned about the other youngsters on the bubble, the one area they could struggle, and might be looking for a way to keep a player, is with the core Special Team's players Aiken, Ventrone, Alexander, and Slater.
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2009
  15. PushnPencils

    PushnPencils Rookie

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    Wheatley- Looks shaky right now, but has all the tools to be decent corner down the road.

    Crable- Lack of practice/playing time has hurt him. He's a wild card for me. Could be a solid producer if he stays on the field.

    Wendel- Looked bad against Philly's 3rd string. Not too impressed so far.

    Brace-Watched him in the Philly game. First couple of plays it looked like he was frozen between his gaps. Looked better as the game progressed.

    Chung- Good on ST. Good motor. Needs alot of work in pass coverage.

    Ohrnberger- ?Nothing to go by?

    Vollmer-Looked real good against 2nd halfers in Philly. Gives us nice depth at OT now.

    Bussey- ?Nothing to go by?

    Pryor- Looks like a draft steal. GREAT motor. Strong. Quick first step. Excited to watch him progress.

    Richard- ?Nothing to go by?

    Ninkovich- Looked pretty good in the 2nd half. Seemed quick and was very active.

    Edelman- Another potential steal. Has an impressive skill set.

    NEED TWO
    We also have some veterans to evaluate

    Walter- I thought he looked OK in the minimal time he's been with the team.
    Could be in the mix.

    Lenon-Haven't seen anything from him yet. But he comes here with a decent resume and could provide great depth.

    Tank Williams-I don't see Tank staying on for some reason.

    McGowan- Was very active in the 2nd half. But actual performance was kind of a muddle.

    NEED THREE
    Get vets used to our systems

    Galloway- Biggest disappointment to me so far. If a kid like Edelman can be on the same page as Brady, a vet like Galloway can't? Can't teach an old dog new tricks? Sounds like TB is working with him...Hope he comes around.

    Burgess- For a guy who was with our team for like a week, he looked decent out there. Good speed, nice moves. Can't wait for him to get used to our system.
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2009
  16. PATSYLICIOUS

    PATSYLICIOUS Rookie

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    Good morning campers, today is evaluation day. The key word here is value. Do you have any? Not yet. But by the end of this summer this camp will be full of skinny winners!
  17. RoughingthePasser

    RoughingthePasser Rookie

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    (CB) #22 Wheatley - Aside from the vets (Springs, Bodden)-Terrence was our 2nd round from the '08 Draft ahead of Wilhite (who was our 4th) . He’s quick and has great foot speed-in fact he was renowned as one of the fastest players when he was in college. He’s explosive and can still return kicks. He lost time on the IR last year-so Wilhite stepped up and has been doing well. Now we have Darius Butler and the vets but Mike Richardson has left recently. I think Terrence Wheatley is a great player to have and DB’s can get injured as we’ve seen.

    Crable – Here comes our 3rd round from ’08. I’m still excited to see what Shawn can execute during a game. He’s been a STRONG OLB for most of his football years. He has the potential to penetrate the LOS and make stops in the backfield. So he could even line up at DE at times. He can penetrate well and should fit well w/ Burgess and Tully for pass rush.

    Wendel-NA

    Brace- HE has great quickness and leverage…good penetration. I like Pryor though too. Let’s see how Cincy goes.

    Chung- He and Mayo are my fave’s right now.

    Ohrnberger- NA

    Vollmer-NA He’s big.

    Bussey - NA

    Pryor- He’s got an edge…quick and strong like Brace. He wants to stuff the backfield.

    Richard - NA

    Ninkovich – I like Nink. He reminds me of Wright-even though they play diff. positions. He’s got potential.

    Edelman = As long as he plays with attitude and gets up after getting jacked…I’m happy. We’ll see.

    NEED TWO
    We also have some veterans to evaluate

    Walter -NA

    Lenon - read:Paris Lenon Signing Shows the Patriots Know Something the Lions Don't | Bleacher Report

    Tank Williams. NA. Will he play ILB? How will he stack w/ McGowan?

    McGowan – ST’s, S/ILB stacking the box, blitzing, we could use depth

    NEED THREE
    Get vets used to our systems

    Galloway- Reminds me of Gaffney for some reason. I know his History but seriously -Do we need him$$$?

    Burgess – 2005 sack leader.Recognize: Watch This!
    Video - D.Burgess sack leader 2005 - FanDome
    Video - D.Burgess sack leader 2005 - FanDome

    These are just opinions on the dudes you posted...lots of other guys too.:cool::cool::cool:
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2009
  18. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    OK...but are you suggesting that the Patriots actually paid off Testaverde not to sign with another team in the meantime? (That's what Ken's saying, right?) And that a team might pay somebody like Walter enough to make it worth his while to reject other teams' offers?

    I would be astonished if that were so. Not only would it be a MASSIVE violation of league rules, but think what a long-term career risk a young player like Walter would be taking, passing up NFL opportunities on the hopes that the Patriots might, maybe, possibly call. The under-the-table payments would have to be in 7 figures. I can't see it.
  19. Gwedd

    Gwedd PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I can certainly see it, and believe that every team in the NFL is either doing it, or has done it.

    The Patriots don't have to put out the money, or even see it appear on the books. The player is released, decides to turn down other offers, and gets a check from some "company" that "hires" him to a basically no-show job, or gives him a salary as a retainer for PR purposes.

    This very concept is seen every day in large corporations who want to keep folks from hiring with the competition.
  20. Box_O_Rocks

    Box_O_Rocks PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    No, "I" am not suggesting NE would pay anyone under the table to remain on the shadow roster. I think asking Walter to hold himself available may be a consideration at final cutdown if it is a choice between losing a player BB really wants for the team or three QBs to start the season. Certainly enough of us are struggling to see the final shape of this roster.
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