Evaluate the current roster: Step one

[DaBruinz]

I remember that in Patriots Reign, Belichick made mention that the first thing they do is evaluate the roster, assigning them numbers as to how they are rated... I know the system is on a 1 to 10 basis. And I know it's mentioned in Patriots Reign, but I don't have my copy available as it's still packed from moving..

If anyone could post the scale that BB used, it would be appreciated.

 

[cstjohn17]

I remember that in Patriots Reign, Belichick made mention that the first thing they do is evaluate the roster, assigning them numbers as to how they are rated... I know the system is on a 1 to 10 basis. And I know it's mentioned in Patriots Reign, but I don't have my copy available as it's still packed from moving..

If anyone could post the scale that BB used, it would be appreciated.

A "friend" left my copy on a MBTA bus, this is my memory but I think it was something like the one used at National Football Post, a scale from 4-8. The version below is slightly different because it focuses on college players but I think it is pretty close.


2010 draft: offensive tackle grading scale | National Football Post

NFP Numerical College Grading Scale


Starter Caliber

8.0 Starts first game as a pro…a prospect who possesses rare physical attributes that have an obvious impact on the game…will instantly become one of the best players at his position in the NFL.

7.5 Becomes a starter in his rookie season…a prospect who possesses physical attributes that will create mismatches and have an obvious impact on the game…will become a premier player in the league.

7.0 Starts in first game as a pro…a prospect who possesses physical attributes that will create mismatches vs. most opponents…a featured player on a team.

6.9 Becomes a starter during his rookie year…a prospect who possesses physical attributes that will create mismatches vs. most opponents…a featured player on a team.

6.8 Becomes a starter in his rookie year…becomes a solid NFL player who has no real weakness…can’t be exploited or consistently taken out of games.

Dirty Starter Caliber

6.7 Contributes first year and starts second year…must be able to get on the field and make a contribution as a rookie…expected to start his second year in the league.

6.6 Contributes first year but may need time to become a starter…has the ability to become a starter and will be expected to assume a starting role.

6.5 Clean player who is inconsistent in his play due to character, alertness or competitiveness…has all the physical tools needed to become a starter…if he overcomes his deficiencies, he will be a star in the league…if he doesn’t, he’ll be a complete failure…NO middle ground.

Possible Starter Caliber

6.4 Has one deficient area of his playing skills or physical attributes but should be able to overcome it and contribute to a team…has the potential to become a starter based on his abilities.

6.3 Has one deficient area of his playing skills or his physical attributes that will be difficult to overcome but will contribute in spite of it…has the potential to become a starter based on his abilities.

6.2 Has one deficient area of his physical attributes that he can never overcome but has been productive and has the potential to be a starter in the NFL despite his shortcomings.

6.1 A clean prospect who will need time and development in order to contribute…physically, this player has all the tools to be a starter in the NFL but has not yet developed the necessary skills due to level of competition, offensive or defensive schemes, injury, grades or lack of playing time…true developmental player who has the potential to become a starter.

6.0 An underachiever who has exhibited a deficiency in some area of his play...has the abilities to become a starter but hasn’t played up to them…has a problem with football instincts, character and/or competitiveness…boom-or-bust prospect.

Backup/Depth Caliber

5.9 Has a deficient area of his playing or physical skills that he should overcome and contribute as a backup and spot player only.

5.8 Has a deficient area of his playing of physical skills that will be difficult to overcome but will contribute as a backup and spot player only.

5.7 Has a deficient area of his physical skills that cannot be overcome but has been productive and can contribute as a backup and spot player only.

Free Agent Category

5.6 Free agent with speed, character and competitiveness.

5.5 Free agent with athletic ability, character and competitiveness.

5.4 Free agent with size, character and competitiveness.

5.3 Free agent at a high level of competition with size, speed or athletic ability.

5.2 Free agent with size or speed.

5.1 Free agent with character and competitiveness.

5.0 Camp body.

4.0 Reject…no qualities for professional football.

 

[BillBelichickFan79]

I remember that in Patriots Reign, Belichick made mention that the first thing they do is evaluate the roster, assigning them numbers as to how they are rated... I know the system is on a 1 to 10 basis. And I know it's mentioned in Patriots Reign, but I don't have my copy available as it's still packed from moving..

If anyone could post the scale that BB used, it would be appreciated.

Some Alphabet Letters Used
a = concerns about age, too young or too old
c = character concern
x = injury problem
t = will make special-teams coach happy
tt = special teams contribution is so good he can make the roster on his ST ability alone
y = transfer
l = fnished college career at lower level of competition (Div1-AA, Div. 2, Div. 3)
A+/A = "player who will be wearing a yellow jacket and giving a speec on the steps of the Pro Football Hall of Fame"
Q = rare player who happens to be height-deficient
C = circumstance (any reason) that has restricted a very good player's production
P = top projection players who are being counted on to play a position in the pros that they didn't in college

Then you have the 8 groups:

1. Starter: 9.00-9.99 A+, 8.00-8.99 A, and Q (height-deficient) 8.00-8.99

2. Circumstantial Starter - first year NFL starter whose production was restricted by some circumstance. May include NCAA rules problem, problems with agent, personal or family confllict. 7.00-7.99 C

3. Make It+ - player who is not expected to start in his first season but is expected to contribute in year one and eventually develop into a starter 6.50-6.99

4. Dirty Starter - could start, but something about the player is restrictive (speed, athleticism, etc.), Category for overachievers and underachievers. 6.00-6.49

5. Make It - backup who won't win or lose a game for you. 5.50-5.99

6, Free Agent - not expected to make the team but could rise to the Make It level with time in NFL Europe or on the practice squad. 5.00-5.49

7. Pats Reject - reject by standards of Patriots, but could land somewhere else in the NFL. 4.90-4.99

8. Reject - doesn't belong in the NFL. 1.00

 

[DaBruinz]

Well, now that we have that, lets rate the roster and see what we get..

 

[bucky]

Some Alphabet Letters Used
a = concerns about age, too young or too old
c = character concern
x = injury problem
t = will make special-teams coach happy
tt = special teams contribution is so good he can make the roster on his ST ability alone
y = transfer
l = fnished college career at lower level of competition (Div1-AA, Div. 2, Div. 3)
A+/A = "player who will be wearing a yellow jacket and giving a speec on the steps of the Pro Football Hall of Fame"
Q = rare player who happens to be height-deficient
C = circumstance (any reason) that has restricted a very good player's production
P = top projection players who are being counted on to play a position in the pros that they didn't in college

Then you have the 8 groups:

1. Starter: 9.00-9.99 A+, 8.00-8.99 A, and Q (height-deficient) 8.00-8.99

2. Circumstantial Starter - first year NFL starter whose production was restricted by some circumstance. May include NCAA rules problem, problems with agent, personal or family confllict. 7.00-7.99 C

3. Make It+ - player who is not expected to start in his first season but is expected to contribute in year one and eventually develop into a starter 6.50-6.99

4. Dirty Starter - could start, but something about the player is restrictive (speed, athleticism, etc.), Category for overachievers and underachievers. 6.00-6.49

5. Make It - backup who won't win or lose a game for you. 5.50-5.99

6, Free Agent - not expected to make the team but could rise to the Make It level with time in NFL Europe or on the practice squad. 5.00-5.49

7. Pats Reject - reject by standards of Patriots, but could land somewhere else in the NFL. 4.90-4.99

8. Reject - doesn't belong in the NFL. 1.00

This looks more like a scale for evaluating draft prospects, as opposed to current roster members.

 

[DaBruinz]

Here is my stab at the rating the Pats roster based on their rating system. I'm sure that some of them will make people say "HUH" but its just an exercise.
QB:
Tom Brady - 9.5 A x
Brian Hoyer – 6.8
Isaiah Stanback – 5.75
Jeff Rowe (PS) – 5.2

RB:
Laurence Maroney – 8.4x
Fred Taylor – 8.3x
Sammie Morris – 8.2x
BenJarvus Green-Ellis 5.6
Eric Kettani (RES/MIL) – 5.2
Kevin Faulk (UFA) – 8.6

O-Line:
Matt Light – 8.8
Nick Kaczur – 8.2
Dan Koppen – 8.1
Sebastian Vollmer – 6.75l
Rich Orhnberger – 5.8
George Bussey (PS/IR) – INC / 5.2
Dan Connolly – 5.9
Ryan Wendell – 5.9
Mark LaVoir – 6.8
Stephen Neal (UFA) – 8.1x
Logan Mankins (RFA) - 8.9

TE:
Cam Baker – 8.2
Robbie Agnone(PS/IR) – INC / 5.2
Rob Myers (PS) – 5.1
Ben Watson (UFA)– 8.4

WR:
Randy Moss 9.4 A a
Wes Welker (IR) – 9.5x
Julian Edelman – 6.6
Brandon Tate (IR) – 6.3x
Sam Aiken – 5.75 tt
Matt Slater – 5.6tt
Darnell Jenkins (PS) - 5.3
Tyree Barnes (RES/MIL) - 5.3
Shun White (RES/MIL) - 5.3

DT/NT
Vince Wilfork (UFA) – 9.3
Ron Brace – 6.2
Myron Pryor – 6.3
Darryl Richard (PS) - 5.3

DE/DT:
Ty Warren – 9.1
Mike Wright – 8.8
Adrian Grady (PS)
Jarvis Green (UFA) 8.1

ILB/OLB:
Adalius Thomas – 8.3c
Shawn Crable (IR) – 6.5x
Jerod Mayo – 8.9
Gary Guyton - 7.4
Stephen Alexander – 6.2t
Bruce Davis (PS) – 5.4
Thomas Williams (PS) – 5.4
Tyrone McKenzie (IR) – INC/6.6Px
Rob Ninkovich – 5.9/6.0
Tully Banta-Cain (UFA) 8.5

CB:
Terrence Wheatley – 6.8x
Jonathan Wilhite – 7.3
Shawn Springs – 7.5
Darius Butler – 6.85
Kyle Arrington – 5.9tt
Leigh Bodden (UFA) – 8.6

Safety:
Brandon McGowan 7.6t
Brandon Meriweather – 8.7
James Sanders – 7.9t
Patrick Chung 6.85t
Brett Lockett (IR) – 5.7tt


Special Teams:

Kicker
Stephen Gostkowski (RFA) 9.1A

Punter
Chris Hanson (UFA) – 8.0

Long-Snapper :
Jake Ingram – 7.5t

 

[PatsChamp88]

Cam Baker also don't forget RB Chris Taylor (PS)

 

[everlong]

RB:
Laurence Maroney – 8.4x
Fred Taylor – 8.3x
Sammie Morris – 8.2x
BenJarvus Green-Ellis 5.6
Eric Kettani (RES/MIL) – 5.2
Kevin Faulk (UFA) – 8.6

O-Line:
Sebastian Vollmer – 6.75l

TE:
Cam Baker – 8.2

WR:
Julian Edelman – 6.6

DE/DT:
Mike Wright – 8.8

ILB/OLB:
Adalius Thomas – 8.3c
Shawn Crable (IR) – 6.5x

CB:
Darius Butler – 6.85

Safety:
Patrick Chung 6.85t


Special Teams:

Punter
Chris Hanson (UFA) – 8.0

Long-Snapper :
Jake Ingram – 7.5t

Great effort. Some of the ones I might adjust.

I think all of our RBs are situational starters putting them in the 7's. I don't think that's a big issue as they all have something they do well. I might like to see more than a running back by committee situation but in today's NFL it's certainly the trend.

I think Vollmer is better than the 6's. Really he was a starter by the end putting him in the 8's but no worse than a situational starter in the 7's.

Baker is a situational starter. If he's our #1 TE in 2010 I think that's an issue.

Edelman is like Vollmer a starter by the end if only due to injury so I have to put him in the 7's at least.

I think that's a bit high for Wright. He's some place between a full time starter and a situational. I'd do low 8's.

AD was not an 8 this year. His performance was up and down at best.

Crable hasn't played a down in the regular season I cannot see how he merits the 6's.

Butler and Chung saw a lot of field time I think they are both situational starters going into next year and hopefully a second year of camp will improve that.

Hanson is an 8 only because he was the starter. I get the grade you gave him it's more a gripe about needing an upgrade.

Ingram was solid in his job solid draft choice. Hard to grade a specialist like this. 7.5 is fine as a contributor but he was flawless in his specialty so a grade in the 8's would have been fine too.

 

[DaBruinz]

Great effort. Some of the ones I might adjust.

I think all of our RBs are situational starters putting them in the 7's. I don't think that's a big issue as they all have something they do well. I might like to see more than a running back by committee situation but in today's NFL it's certainly the trend. We'll have to agree to disagree on that. I think that Taylor and Maroney could be starters with an O-line that blocks effectively.

I think Vollmer is better than the 6's. Really he was a starter by the end putting him in the 8's but no worse than a situational starter in the 7's.
If you look at the definition of "MAKE IT" player, that is where Vollmer falls into. Vollmer wasn't the starter at the end of the season. He was on the bench when Kaczur and Light were both healthy, though he did rotate in. The Pats may rate him as a starter going forward and knock Kaczur down based on his less than stellar play in the play-offs.

Baker is a situational starter. If he's our #1 TE in 2010 I think that's an issue.
Again, we'll have to agree to disagree. I believe that baker is a legitimate starter and the only reason the Pats didn't go with more 2 TE sets is because they didn't have a 3rd TE. Watson is better than Baker, but Baker is not slouch.

Edelman is like Vollmer a starter by the end if only due to injury so I have to put him in the 7's at least.
My reasoning for Edelman is the same as Vollmer. Edelman was starting, not because he earned it, but because of the injury to Welker. That is not to say that Edelman isn't good. He is. But he's not there as a full--time starter. I consider him a "Make It" player.


I think that's a bit high for Wright. He's some place between a full time starter and a situational. I'd do low 8's.
Fair enough

AD was not an 8 this year. His performance was up and down at best.
AD, I'll admit, I had a hard time rating. I guess I could have rated him in the high 7's.. But the reality is that, except for the disciplinary issues, he was the starter at OLB in the 4-3.

Crable hasn't played a down in the regular season I cannot see how he merits the 6's. Look at the definition. This is about potential as well as where they are at now. It's why he's got the Injury Mark with him.

Butler and Chung saw a lot of field time I think they are both situational starters going into next year and hopefully a second year of camp will improve that. I have to disagree here. Chung isn't ready to be a starter. He needs another half season at a minimum. As for Butler, I think that he also needs a half season. That's why I put them in the "MAKE IT" Category.

Hanson is an 8 only because he was the starter. I get the grade you gave him it's more a gripe about needing an upgrade.

Ingram was solid in his job solid draft choice. Hard to grade a specialist like this. 7.5 is fine as a contributor but he was flawless in his specialty so a grade in the 8's would have been fine too.

Thanks for the input, Everlong..

 

[DaBruinz]

Cam Baker also don't forget RB Chris Taylor (PS)

Baker is there.

Your right about Taylor. I did forget him..

Chris Taylor - 5.5x

 

[DaBruinz]

This looks more like a scale for evaluating draft prospects, as opposed to current roster members.

Bucky - according to Patriots Reign, the Pats use the same scale to evaluate potential draft picks as they do players on the roster. They do that so they can see where they would be upgrading at and so they are comparing apples to apples.

 

[dryheat44]

Baker is there.

Your right about Taylor. I did forget him..

Chris Taylor - 5.5x

I think you were being corrected on first names - Chris Baker, and Eric Alexander. No big deal, though.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Sebastian Vollmer – 6.75l

Why do you have an "l" for Vollmer? Houston is 1A.

 

[bucky]

Bucky - according to Patriots Reign, the Pats use the same scale to evaluate potential draft picks as they do players on the roster. They do that so they can see where they would be upgrading at and so they are comparing apples to apples.

It doesn't exactly say that. The only think that I could find that eludes to it is "every player who puts on a silver helmet is defined in these terms." Now, you could interpret that 1 sentence the way you did. Or you could interpret it as the Patriots' scouting reports on every player prior to joining their team. Holley talks for several pages about how scouts use this system. There's nothing that says about the coaches using it on existing players. In fact, he only describes the system during the draft part of the book. The internal evaluation process, which comes much earlier in the book, doesn't talk about this grading system at all.

I'm sure the Patriots grade their own players. I'm not arguing that point at all and I'm sure the scale is something similar. But I doubt it's exactly along those same lines. After all, what would be the point of classifying Vollmer as and "l" after he started 8 games in the NFL. I think that level of competition has been answered.

In terms of comparing apples to apples, that's always hard because the grades on prospects, or even players on other teams, are so much more subjective that grades on your own players.

 

[DaBruinz]

I think you were being corrected on first names - Chris Baker, and Eric Alexander. No big deal, though.

Chris Taylor is a RB I forgot.. But you are correct on the other two.. Not sure what I was thinking..

 

[DaBruinz]

Why do you have an "l" for Vollmer? Houston is 1A.

Cause I had a brain fart *GRIN* Thanks for the correction