Eugene Wilson for Next Year

[BelichickFan]

Can someone with a better memory remind me how he was playing before he got hurt ? I'm kind of focused on Safeties but if Harrison and Wilson are actually healthy next year (I know, I know), it's more of a 2008 need than 2007. But I forget how Wilson was playing. It's his contract year and we know how guys usually play in contract years.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

BB fan, I have been thinking about Wilson and Harrison. When both those guys went down in Super Bowl 38 (I just watched it), our secondary went to h@ll. I really think that BB defenses rely so much on safeties. The last three times we have played the Colts and lost, Harrison has been hurt. When Hawkins showed up mid-season in '05, it really stabilized the defense.

It is my personal opinion, that the new CBA limiting contracts in the 2nd round and down to only 4 years really hurt the Patriots (who love to draft). I actually think re-signing Wilson on the cheap might be a way for the Patriots to stay ahead of the curve. Wilson has been injured (and playing injured) the last two years, but he looked good in training camp, playing FS/nickel CB.

 

[cstjohn17]

Can someone with a better memory remind me how he was playing before he got hurt ? I'm kind of focused on Safeties but if Harrison and Wilson are actually healthy next year (I know, I know), it's more of a 2008 need than 2007. But I forget how Wilson was playing. It's his contract year and we know how guys usually play in contract years.

His play slipped in 2005 without Rodney, it seemed like 2006 was too short of a snapshot to tell. He may not be on the All Pro path we once thought he was on but he has speed and can cover. Personally I don't like the idea of moving him to CB as has been suggested, when healthy, he and Rodney are as solid a combo as there is in the league. Sanders is an ok backup at SS, Hawkins held up well for most of the year at FS but near the end his lack of speed was frightening. Maybe Hawkins was banged up but he was really exposed against the Jets and Colts.

Maybe the Pats bring in a player with some versatility to be a backup FS/SS (upgrade over Hawkins) but overall we have a lot of Safeties under contract and I am ok with the group we have. LB, CB (if Samuel leaves), WR are more pressing needs.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

His play slipped in 2005 without Rodney, it seemed like 2006 was too short of a snapshot to tell. He may not be on the All Pro path we once thought he was on but he has speed and can cover. Personally I don't like the idea of moving him to CB as has been suggested, when healthy, he and Rodney are as solid a combo as there is in the league. Sanders is an ok backup at SS, Hawkins held up well for most of the year at FS but near the end his lack of speed was frightening. Maybe Hawkins was banged up but he was really exposed against the Jets and Colts.

Maybe the Pats bring in a player with some versatility to be a backup FS/SS (upgrade over Hawkins) but overall we have a lot of Safeties under contract and I am ok with the group we have. LB, CB (if Samuel leaves), WR are more pressing needs.

this time next year all those safeties that you are ok with won't be under contract. The only safety will we have under contract is James Sanders. Wilson has 1 year left, Hawkins has 1 year left, Tebucky Jones has 1 year left, Mel Mitchell has 1 year left, and '07 could very well be Rodney's last year.

 

[Kdo5]

He wasnt playing that bad but I remember him taking some heat, particularly after the Jets game in Week 2 because he was missing lots of tackles in it. But he only played two full games that I can remember Week 1 and 2. I may be wrong but I think he ended up getting injured before the Denver and Buffalo game finished. Of his good plays I can remember was a nice hit that could have been ruled a fumble against Denver and a great hussle play to stop Mgahee from reaching the endzone. I do not think he was playing great but not too bad, 2 full games is not enough to make a decision really.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Eugene Wilson was awful. His injury was similar to Duane Starks in the context of being on injury report for awhile until being shut down the rest of the season. Wilson was getting juked out of his shoes on WR screen passes and consistently getting beaten for a first down. The injury might have had something to do with it if indeed it was his leg that was hurting him. If so, I will give him the benefit of the doubt because if you can't use your legs, you can't tackle. But to answer your question, his play was awful. Hopefully he heals up this offseason and gets back to 2003 form.

 

[Kdo5]

Eugene Wilson was awful. His injury was similar to Duane Starks in the context of being on injury report for awhile until being shut down the rest of the season. Wilson was getting juked out of his shoes on WR screen passes and consistently getting beaten for a first down. The injury might have had something to do with it if indeed it was his leg that was hurting him. If so, I will give him the benefit of the doubt because if you can't use your legs, you can't tackle. But to answer your question, his play was awful. Hopefully he heals up this offseason and gets back to 2003 form.

His play was awful in the Jets game in which he got juked out quite a few times but as I recall there were lots of players who were diving around whiffing whoever carried the ball that game. I just cant recall the other games he played in because I only have the Jets game on tape.

 

[Remix 6]

its hard to say how he was playing last year..too short and who knows how long hes been injured. everyone was missing tackles first part of season..EVERYONE

the reason in 05 bad play was because u get new guys in secondary..no experience without their Papa Bear and what happens? Confusion..i dont think he was ready to assume playcalling in secondary. Once Hawkins got in and gave veteran leadership..we played much better. i think he was playing good not great this year. I really want ihm back..hes 1 of the fastest on the team and he gives us big hits. Hawkins is not better than him..all hawkins has is experience and leadership over Wilson..Wilson is a lot more talented imo. not taking anything away from Hawkins but its Wilson's job in '07 and i hope we resign him in '08

his play was not anywhere near awfull..he missed a few tackles but name 1 defender who didnt. getting juked out of his shoes..i saw Bruschi, Vrabel, Scott, Samuel and Hobbs all get juked out by Coles who was dancing and making plays.

 

[Kdo5]

its hard to say how he was playing last year..too short and who knows how long hes been injured. everyone was missing tackles first part of season..EVERYONE

the reason in 05 bad play was because u get new guys in secondary..no experience without their Papa Bear and what happens? Confusion..i dont think he was ready to assume playcalling in secondary. Once Hawkins got in and gave veteran leadership..we played much better. i think he was playing good not great this year. I really want ihm back..hes 1 of the fastest on the team and he gives us big hits. Hawkins is not better than him..all hawkins has is experience and leadership over Wilson..Wilson is a lot more talented imo. not taking anything away from Hawkins but its Wilson's job in '07 and i hope we resign him in '08

his play was not anywhere near awfull..he missed a few tackles but name 1 defender who didnt. getting juked out of his shoes..i saw Bruschi, Vrabel, Scott, Samuel and Hobbs all get juked out by Coles who was dancing and making plays.

I like Wilson and think if we end up with both Wilson and Hawkins as the two most likely starters than I would like to go with Wilson. And I hope he bounces back and can be a leader in the future if we chose to re sign him but who knows.

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

Wilson should be kept at safety and signed for the future. He's very good and the criticism given to him has been unfair.

In 2005 until Hawkins surfaced, he played with about 3-4 other players at safety(Randal Gay, Scott, even Sanders, and that guy from Miami/GB)

Once Hawkins settled in you didn't hear Eugene's name for mistakes, he was solid.

This year I can remember when he got injured but that Magahee run down to save the td cooked his hammy and we was done for the rest of the season.

I say the Pats keep him at safety and draft another safety, then you have Rodney, Hawkins, Wilson, and a rookie to rotate. How's that for depth and that would make for an awesome Nickel or Dime Package, plus guys always get injured and maybe spreading the reps will preserve guys.

 

[Remix 6]

Wilson should be kept at safety and signed for the future. He's very good and the criticism given to him has been unfair.

In 2005 until Hawkins surfaced, he played with about 3-4 other players at safety(Randal Gay, Scott, even Sanders, and that guy from Miami/GB)

Once Hawkins settled in you didn't hear Eugene's name for mistakes, he was solid.

This year I can remember when he got injured but that Magahee run down to save the td cooked his hammy and we was done for the rest of the season.

I say the Pats keep him at safety and draft another safety, then you have Rodney, Hawkins, Wilson, and a rookie to rotate. How's that for depth and that would make for an awesome Nickel or Dime Package, plus guys always get injured and maybe spreading the reps will preserve guys.

^wheres Sanders in your analysis?

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

Wilson drew heat early on because he was playing SS and Rodney was play FS while testing his knee's durability and mobility. BB likes to have Safeties who can play both, but it isn't much of a stretch to say Rodney makes a better SS than FS and vice versa for Wilson. Hawkins' experience helps when Rodney is out, but Wilson is the more athletic of the two. The challenge will be staying injury free with his hamstring and groin woes. I think a canny SS candidate in this draft, one with a little more mass, would be a good investment, recycling older CBs at FS to help the younger SSs is probably wiser from a Field General perspective.

 

[cstjohn17]

this time next year all those safeties that you are ok with won't be under contract. The only safety will we have under contract is James Sanders. Wilson has 1 year left, Hawkins has 1 year left, Tebucky Jones has 1 year left, Mel Mitchell has 1 year left, and '07 could very well be Rodney's last year.

So how many Safeties should they bring in? The NFL is less and less of a developmental league, we can't have 2-3 safeties "learning" the system. If we draft one and have one on the PS squad that may be the limit of what the roster can bear.

The 4,5,6,7 spots are JAGs and can easily replaced on a year to year basis. My proposal is:
FS - Wilson, mid round draft pick
SS - Harrison, Sanders
Special Teams - Andrews, Mitchell and maybe T Buck, and maybe Hawkins

Chad Scott and Gay (if brought back can also play S in a pinch)

What is your plan?

 

[MoLewisrocks]

I don't know. Felger was opining back in 2005 that some guys can't play if they also have to think, and he believed Wilson was one of those. When Rodney was there to do the thinking and he could just react under his direction he looked like a pro bowler. Once he had to think for himself, not to mention being expected to also think for the unit, he was toast. I'm not sure he's a starter on this team any more minus Rodney, and I don't think we can count on Rodney too much longer. Remember, BB brought in a boatload of safeties last season even assuming Wilson remained healthy and likely assuming Rodney would be back eventually.

Unlike some here I'm not penciling him or Gay in anywhere until they prove they can get back on the field (and prove they weren't just flashes and have genuine capacity to consistently play the position effectively including under less than ideal conditions) and stay on the field.

Belichick defenses are built around savvy playcallers and playmakers at LB and safety. We need to get younger and faster to be sure, but we also have to maintain a certain level of talent and retain an instinctive mentality or the system malfunctions.

 

[Remix 6]

So how many Safeties should they bring in? The NFL is less and less of a developmental league, we can't have 2-3 safeties "learning" the system. If we draft one and have one on the PS squad that may be the limit of what the roster can bear.

The 4,5,6,7 spots are JAGs and can easily replaced on a year to year basis. My proposal is:
FS - Wilson, mid round draft pick
SS - Harrison, Sanders
Special Teams - Andrews, Mitchell and maybe T Buck, and maybe Hawkins

Chad Scott and Gay (if brought back can also play S in a pinch)

What is your plan?

not all the safeties we have this year will be around. Jones or Mitchell will be cut.

safe: wilson, harrison, hawkins, sanders. baker is an RFA

competition: at most 2 guy more guys will make it..Jones/Mitchell/Baker

Andrews can play S as can Gay and Scott

IMO, Jones will be safe b/c he plays Safety and can play OLB in sub packages while Mitchell hasnt started @ safety and doubt hes very versatile on defense.

 

[Box_O_Rocks]

So how many Safeties should they bring in? The NFL is less and less of a developmental league, we can't have 2-3 safeties "learning" the system. If we draft one and have one on the PS squad that may be the limit of what the roster can bear.

The 4,5,6,7 spots are JAGs and can easily replaced on a year to year basis. My proposal is:
FS - Wilson, mid round draft pick
SS - Harrison, Sanders
Special Teams - Andrews, Mitchell and maybe T Buck, and maybe Hawkins

Chad Scott and Gay (if brought back can also play S in a pinch)

What is your plan?

If you pencil in Wilson and Harrison as starters, and Sanders as 1st reserve...with Chad Scott still a candidate to back-up at FS. Then Hawkins, Mitchell, Jones, and Andrews are competing with LBs, RBs, and receivers for Special Teams' duties. Andrews is an excellent gunner and good PR/KR reserve, he also has enough quicks to cross-train at CB, we'll see what they do with him in mini-camp. Jones and Mitchell have to beat out Sanders or one of the young LBs, coming off knee injuries that will be tough. Hawkins is an excellent short-term S, but he doesn't seem to have the legs to last an entire season, unless there was some injury accumulation not reported. There seems to be several decent mid-round SS candidates to pick through in the draft, most of the safeties making the big waves are less than 200 pounds and better suited to FS.

 

[PATRIOTS-80]

So how many Safeties should they bring in? The NFL is less and less of a developmental league, we can't have 2-3 safeties "learning" the system. If we draft one and have one on the PS squad that may be the limit of what the roster can bear.

The 4,5,6,7 spots are JAGs and can easily replaced on a year to year basis. My proposal is:
FS - Wilson, mid round draft pick
SS - Harrison, Sanders
Special Teams - Andrews, Mitchell and maybe T Buck, and maybe Hawkins

Chad Scott and Gay (if brought back can also play S in a pinch)

What is your plan?

that's my plan too!

 

[MrBigglesWorth]

^wheres Sanders in your analysis?

good point, forgot about him and he was playing great. someone will be the odd man out to play corner whether it is eugene or a rookie.

 

[mgteich]

I think that your plan simply makes believe that Wilson will be healthy and able to play at 100%. The coaches may know that this is true.

I am fine with Sanders starting but not Chad Scott. Sanders is a fine SS, and a fine starter. I like Chad Scott as a starting corner, as a backup safety. My plan is to keep Hawkins who is likely to be as good as Wilson, who is in contract year. I see absolutely no downside to keeping a player that was a critical part of a seconday that allowed the fewest touchdown passes in the NFL, and a critical starter in a defense that allowed the second fewest points in the league.

Let's face some reality. 1) Hawkins, Sanders and Baker played plenty well enough to win. 2) Wilson and Harrison may be doubtful for 2007 and 2008.

Even the mention of Gay makes me cringe. I won't count on him for the 2007 playoffs, although he might ket one of the final roster spots, which is just fine.

My 2007 lineup is

SS Harrison, Sanders (expecting Sanders to start for most of the season)
FS Hawkins, Wilson (expecting Hawkins to start for most of the season)
ST Baker, Andrews, Jones, Mitchell
emergency backup: Scott

I see no reason for anyone else unless Harrison or Wilson are expected to go.
Depending on FO evaluation, I would consider extending Hawkins and Wilson now. Yes I would draft the annual safety. That's fine as long as he can play ST's. He'll need to make the team on ST's

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So how many Safeties should they bring in? The NFL is less and less of a developmental league, we can't have 2-3 safeties "learning" the system. If we draft one and have one on the PS squad that may be the limit of what the roster can bear.



The 4,5,6,7 spots are JAGs and can easily replaced on a year to year basis. My proposal is:
FS - Wilson, mid round draft pick
SS - Harrison, Sanders
Special Teams - Andrews, Mitchell and maybe T Buck, and maybe Hawkins

Chad Scott and Gay (if brought back can also play S in a pinch)

What is your plan?

 

[cstjohn17]

Sounds like we are all saying the same thing, despite all hoopla about our Safety position it doesn't look like there will be any major changes in 2007 except for all the return of players from injury.

I see one open spot at FS as a backup to Wilson in case his play drops off or he leaves in 2008. In my ideal scenario we get a player like Nelson or Merriweather in the draft because they can play FS or nickel CB. More realistic to think we draft a S in rounds 4 or 5 or bring in a savy old vet.

My silent hope is that T Buck can return to a level where he can line up at LB in passing situation and cover a TE, say someone like.. I don't know... maybe Dallas Clark.

I think that your plan simply makes believe that Wilson will be healthy and able to play at 100%. The coaches may know that this is true.

I am fine with Sanders starting but not Chad Scott. Sanders is a fine SS, and a fine starter. I like Chad Scott as a starting corner, as a backup safety. My plan is to keep Hawkins who is likely to be as good as Wilson, who is in contract year. I see absolutely no downside to keeping a player that was a critical part of a seconday that allowed the fewest touchdown passes in the NFL, and a critical starter in a defense that allowed the second fewest points in the league.

Let's face some reality. 1) Hawkins, Sanders and Baker played plenty well enough to win. 2) Wilson and Harrison may be doubtful for 2007 and 2008.

Even the mention of Gay makes me cringe. I won't count on him for the 2007 playoffs, although he might ket one of the final roster spots, which is just fine.

My 2007 lineup is

SS Harrison, Sanders (expecting Sanders to start for most of the season)
FS Hawkins, Wilson (expecting Hawkins to start for most of the season)
ST Baker, Andrews, Jones, Mitchell
emergency backup: Scott

I see no reason for anyone else unless Harrison or Wilson are expected to go.
Depending on FO evaluation, I would consider extending Hawkins and Wilson now. Yes I would draft the annual safety. That's fine as long as he can play ST's. He'll need to make the team on ST's

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