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ESPN Ranks Chandler Jones the 4th best rookie and best defensive rookie of 2012

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Rob0729, Sep 6, 2012.

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  1. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Ok, it is way too early to be judging rookies considering only rookies from two teams have taken real snaps at this point. But ESPN has issued their first "Rookie Watch" of the year which kinda gauges who they think will win the ROY awards. There are three QBs ahead of Jones (Luck, RG3, and Wilson), but Jones leads all defensive players:


    NFL -- Andrew Luck of the Indianapolis Colts is the total package at QB - ESPN
  2. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    IMO Luck is going to have a Cam Newton type rookie year....He is going to be special and the ROY.

    Of the Pats,I proclaim Hightower will be the best rookie of the bunch,I see a dynamic linebacker in him.....I think Jones will be o.k. but not a standout.
  3. PatsFan2

    PatsFan2 Rookie

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    Lets hope that Jones plays like a more mans Justin Tuck or Pierre-Paul. It seems like we haven't had a pass rusher in a decade.
  4. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

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    How does this make any sense? 20 Players were taken ahead of him. Given preseason and training camp reports and just simple depth chart order of some teams I think you could easily assume he passed some guys taken ahead of him but I think it is a really big stretch to assume he has passed 16 guys without a regular season game being played.
  5. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    Predictions like this are like comparing foreplay to real sex ..... everything looks good in the early stages,but is not really known how good it is until the whole act is complete :eek:
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2012
  6. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    IDK, I thought before the preseason that Hightower had the best shot at DROY, but Jones looks unblockable at times and has displayed a lot of veteran type of moves. I personally didn't think either Jones or Hightower would be the DROY, but I am beginning Jones will have a real shot. The one thing going against him is that DROY is skewed to favor LBs.
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2012
  7. Claremonster

    Claremonster Banned

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    All that really matters is winning the last game of the season.
  8. VJCPatriot

    VJCPatriot Rookie

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    They both will be good. The difference is that Jones plays a position that allows him to accumulate a lot of sacks if he is good. And sacks are the sexiest stat when looking at DROY voting.

    Jones has a real shot at winning the award if his preseason play carries over to the regular season. Hightower will be Mr. Versatility for us, but I don't think he will have as many sacks as Jones. And that is what the voters will look at the most.
  9. patchick

    patchick Moderatrix Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    I'm not so sure about that. Before the draft, Jones was considered one of the most physically gifted players available, but a "raw project" with limited college production and thus risky. After a training camp in which he rapidly worked his way into a full-time starting role for Bill Belichick and showed flashes of dominating play, the risk side of the equation has plummeted.

    If the draft were re-run today, don't you think Jones would be a top-10 pick?
  10. UK_Pat37

    UK_Pat37 Rookie

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    Yet another pointless ESPN statistic/ranking.
  11. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    So would Demarco Murray and a bunch of other surprises so far.
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2012
  12. Joker

    Joker PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Murray was a 2011 draft pick...we took Vereen instead of him...which means we took a bag of nothing instead...
  13. Zeus

    Zeus PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    None of these guys has played a single snap against real NFL level competition at full speed under real game conditions with game plans. Nor do we have any idea how the players will stand up to the rigors of the 16+ game schedule.

    So I do not believe for one second that some knucklehead from ESPN knows much at all about the future performance of Andrew Luck, Chandler Jones or any other rookie.

    (Possible exception: Quinton "Gholston" Coples because he's a jet and we all know how thats gonna turn out ...)
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2012
  14. bunuel

    bunuel Rookie

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    Other than the "He's a Jet; therefore he sucks" thing which is obviously true, Coples did look like a player in the preseason, leading the NFL in preseason sacks, albeit on higher volume than most.

    He seemed way better on the inside than out and if he develops into a Trevor Pryce type, I think they have to be pretty thrilled.
  15. Danger Zone

    Danger Zone Rookie

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    Belichick makes mistakes. I'm not here to pretend he doesnt.

    I was football-fan raging over us losing Clay Matthews, but when it was all said and done we did pick up Edelman and Gronkowski from the trade down.

    When Belichick drafts or trades for someone out of the usual, I just tell myself that its a team chemistry / football smarts / versatility kind of thing.

    I'm still hoping Tavon Wilson proves the theory correct ;)
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2012
  16. signbabybrady

    signbabybrady Rookie

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    I think top 10 is very plausible no guarentee but the question is not top ten, the question is top 4?

    And I guess maybe that could even still be possible but I just dont see the point to even revisit it now with the 1st game having been played and with the rest right around the corner isnt there better things to talk about and save this for a few weeks at least?
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2012
  17. woolster22

    woolster22 Rookie

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    I guess that's good. However, I think Hightower may come on strong at the end of the season and mess things up for both of them. The simple fact that there very well could be two legitimate droy candidates on this team will probably hurt either players chance of winning the award. Still, I doubt really care if either win it, as long as they play major roles and make impressive impacts on games down the stretch.

    Sent from my ADR6425LVW using Tapatalk 2
  18. ForThoseAboutToRock

    ForThoseAboutToRock Rookie

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    Will be very interesting to see how the defensive rookies pan out.

    Since 2000, every DROY was one of the top 15 picks except 2:
    2001-Kendrell Bell #39
    2006- DeMeco Ryans #33

    The last CB/DB to win DROY was Charles Woodson in 1998... Basically you need to be a LB or a DE to get DROY consideration (aside from Suh, the DT who won it 2010).

    In order: (no comment to make on most of these guys :ugh:)


    6. Claiborne (CB) Dallas: He seemed ok last night - the SNF crew didn't shut up about how happy Rob Ryan was to have two decent CB's. I'm not a good judge, and that's made harder on a DB by the TV camera angle.

    7. Barron (S) Tampa Bay

    9. Kuechly (LB) Carolina: In the limited preseason I watched of him, he looks the same as he did in college. Tackling machine with great vision and anticipation.

    10. Gilmore (CB) Buffalo

    11. Poe (DT) Kansas City

    12. Cox (DT) Philadelphia

    14. Brockers (DT) St. Louis

    15. Irvin (DE) Seattle

    16. Coples (DE) NY

    17. Kirkpatrick (CB) Cincinatti

    18. Ingram (LB) San Diego

    19. McClellan (DE) Chicago

    21. Jones (DE) New England

    25. Hightower (LB) New England

    26. Mercilus (LB) Houston

    28. Perry (LB) Green Bay

    29. Smith (DB) Minnesota
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2012
  19. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    This is the start of Vereen's second season. He is off to a bad start, but let's give him the season before we bury the guy.
  20. scott99

    scott99 Rookie

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    Being a huge Pats fan (since 1975), and a Jet's hater, living in the enemy's territory, I got to see Coples play all 4 exhibition games. I'm sorry to inform all of my fellow Pats fans, Coples is a beast. He is everything we HOPE Jones will be, That being said, Jones looked damned good in the 2 games I saw, and I'm pretty sure that some of the 19 teams who passed over Jones are second guessing their choices. That being said, I'm sad to say, Coples is not going to be Gholston, though I wish he was. He's going to be another great defender like David harris and Revis. Hopefully our guy winds up being better.
  21. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Coples looked good during the summer, but he hasn't been as bad as a lot of Pats fans say AND he hasn't been nearly as good as most Jets fans say (beastly is the word I hear most).

    Personally, I think he is a sub package specialist right now for a reason. He seems to be far more ready to be a pass rusher than a defender. He is blocked to easily on run downs. I also think he is more of a disrupter on passing downs than a polished pass rusher (which Jones seems to be in a far more limited sample size since he only played with the ones). Coples can burst through the line with the best of them, but he needs to get better awareness of where the QB is and get to him. Even his only sack against the ones, he overshot the QB and got him on his second effort.
  22. Zeus

    Zeus PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    He also whined to the coach about having to play into the second half of one of the preseason games, prompting Rex to say that Coples was a bit winded. Coples' response was that he did indeed need to work on conditioning. Too early to tell, but the early returns are not encouraging (for jet fans, that is) in the attitude department.
  23. Rob0729

    Rob0729 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Coples does appear to have the potential to be a player who flashes in games. He might be a guy who comes on strong early and peters out as the game goes along. Too early to tell though, but the signs are there.
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2012
  24. patfanken

    patfanken Rookie

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    I don't think anyone really doubted Coples talent...but his heart.

    It has been easy to see the talent Coples has, but there is still a huge question that has to be answered about him, that doesn't need to be answered about Jones. (at least so far)

    How is he going to respond as the season goes one and it gets harder and harder to get up on Monday mornings. How is he going to respond when teams get film on him and it get harder and harder to find success. How is he going to respond if the season starts going badly and football isn't fun any longer.

    These are the questions that I DON'T have to worry about Chandler Jones. Its one thing to be good. They ALL are good. What separates the great ones is what they do from THIS point on into their careers. Do they continue to strive. Do they continue to compete? Do they have the mental discipline and desire to piush themselves beyond their physical limitations.

    Jones gets to see Brady work every day, and has a dozen other examples of what needs to be done to become more than a JAG (not that their anything wrong with that). Coples, whose character is suspect to begin with is bereft of that kind of example with the Jets. Personally I think he is one of those guys who is gong to do very well on his contract year, and then be somewhere between a tease and a disappointment to whomever decides to play him the big bucks.
  25. PATRIOTSFANINPA

    PATRIOTSFANINPA Rookie

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    At least from the onset...Coples appears to go about his business of trying to play well for the Jets and not jumping up in front of the media bashing or insulting other teams or players ....yet.
  26. JJDChE

    JJDChE Rookie

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    I haven't done the research, but my recollection is pretty much that if anyone has 10+ sacks they are the default winner of the DROY. If no one does it the next in line is the LB with the most tackles. CBs have to be REALLY good to be considered. Most rookie CBs aren't REALLY good.

    That's how I see the DROY anyway.
  27. BoTown

    BoTown Rookie

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    Assuming things don't play out the way they did in the 2002 and 2008 seasons, that is.
  28. jason423

    jason423 Rookie

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    I think thats a fair assessment. He reminds me a bit of John Abraham when he started with the team in 2000. The Jets primarily just used him on 3rd downs where all he had to do was attack. He never really got the run part down, but he was a great rusher when healthy in his Jets career. Coples is raw talent.Hes not JPP raw but there is going to be a learning curve. I dont know if he has the head to get much better but physically he is already there. The one play he made where he made a 1 handed grab on a runner while he was being blocked was spectacular. I wouldnt compare him to Trevor Pryce who someone else mentioned. I think Wilkerson is more in the Pryce mold than Coples. Those guys are more all around players. I dont know if Coples will ever be that type of player.
  29. eifmp

    eifmp Rookie

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    I agree with Jason 423. I think it is a fair assessment. In my response to Coples being more of a disruptor than a pass rusher, I would say that with the Jets defense around him and behind him...Coples doesn't actually need to get to the QB that often. If he breaks thru the line you can bet that someone else on defense will try to take advantage of it. Also, if he keeps getting through the line, he will eventually be double teamed, which would allow linebackers to attack more cleanly.

    The other thing I noticed with Coples, which bunuel also said in his post, is that Coples plays much better on the inside than the outside. I think he is used to getting immediate contact from o-linemen at the snap which is a technique used more by guards than tackles. Also, tackles can wash the defender out away from the quarterback. Guards can't do that for the most part because of their inside position on the offensive line, unless the pocket breaks down.

    I would have to disagree with you, Rob0729, on three of things.

    1. I think Coples will start. He has to. He. Has. To. He's already the best the Jets have at getting thru the line.
    2. Even if Coples was pushed backwards on run plays, the Jets defense was particularly stingy against the run this preseason. Coples and the Jets run defense should be fine.
    3. That play against Carolina where you say Coples overshot the QB, I view it differently. I saw the guard riding Coples away from Cam, and not Coples over shooting him on his own.
  30. Dodie

    Dodie Rookie

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    I think he can live up to his billing. I like his preseason performance, all eye will be on our 32nd defense again lol
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