** ESPN Poll Points Out the Fan/Media Double Standard on the Patriots!! **

[maverick4]

http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/story?id=3015550

Back in early August, we polled SportsNation on a plethora of issues regarding cheating in sports as part of a sitewide initiative called Cheatwave. In fact, we even took it off the field and asked how much you cheat in real life. If we ever find out which of you are in the 37% that take food that isn't yours from the communal refrigerator, expect a knock on the door. In the light of the recent developments concerning the New England Patriots spying on the New York Jets and stealing their defensive signals, we decided to look back at what you told us before the season began. What did you think of the scenario when it was laid out to you as a hypothetical? Look at the results below and join the Conversation to talk to other fans about what exactly constitutes cheating in the NFL. The following results are from polls conducted from Aug. 9-10.

"A LITTLE EXTRA PEEK"
Home teams often place video cameras on the sideline to record the opposing team's signals. The cameras are placed on the sideline under the guise that they provide extra game tape for the home team's coaches. When road teams attempt to get credentials for their sideline cameramen, the applications are usually rejected.
69.6% Cheating
30.4% Gamesmanship
Total Votes: 23,606

Your opinion on this issue hasn't changed. After it was announced that NFL commissioner Roger Goodell found the Patriots violated league rules and is considering severe sanctions, SportsNation weighed in with 68% agreeing that the Pats deserved some kind of punishment. Not surprisingly, the voters from Massachusetts, Vermont, New Hampshire, Rhode Island and Maine didn't agree.

"SPYMASTER"
Most teams send a scout to watch the game of the next opponent. The scout sits in the press box and tries to pick up signals from the other team. The team being scouted, however, will often have a coach on the sideline wearing a headset that is not plugged in, and he gives bogus signals to throw off the scout, as well as the opposing team.
90.1% Gamesmanship
9.9% Cheating
Total Votes: 23,606

So cheating is against the rules, but trying to embarrass the cheaters is perfectly OK. We like where you are going with this one, SportsNation! What if the Patriots had been videotaping bogus signs and found themselves in the wrong formations which led to a loss? Would we still be clamoring for sanctions? Right now, 32% of SportsNation feels the Patriots should lose multiple draft picks and pay a fine. Is that just because their actions might have paid off?

"SIGNAL INTERCEPT"
After the Dolphins defeated the Patriots 21-0 in Miami last season, Dolphins linebacker Zach Thomas claimed he knew the Patriots' audibles. He wasn't kidding. Teams sometimes will place microphones on their defensive players to tape the opposing team's audibles. The team then matches the audibles with the play the offense runs. In the shutout loss to Miami, the Patriots played their worst game of the season, as Tom Brady was sacked four times. Coincidence?
50.6% Gamesmanship
49.4% Cheating
Total Votes: 23,606

Wait a minute, SportsNation! Let's get this straight. Videotaping signals is bad, but audio is good? So if Peyton Manning walks up to the line and says "Blue 42, Red 38, Green 34", and you know exactly what that means from having taped it previously and frantically compared it to past plays, that's acceptable? How is that different from video?

We want to hear more of you feedback on the Patriots' situation, these poll results and anything else you have to say about cheating in the NFL. Join the Conversation below to sound off.

 

[Fixit]

Re: ESPN Points Out the Fan/Media Double Standard for the Patriots

Ever so slowly, the worm begins to turn.

 

[maverick4]

Re: ESPN Points Out the Fan/Media Double Standard for the Patriots

The first few comments on this are brutal, the fans accuse ESPN of being biased for the Pats. How is it biased to use real data and show how there is a fan bias and double standard?

 

[ArmyPatsFan]

Re: ESPN Points Out the Fan/Media Double Standard for the Patriots

Very interesting...nice find.

 

[maverick4]

Re: ESPN Points Out the Fan/Media Double Standard for the Patriots

If you allow binoculars or audio recording or even videotaping of the play on the field, you are simply talking about a matter of degrees of espionage. It seems a joke to call videotaping 'cheating' and 'ruining the integrity of the NFL', and then to condone lesser degrees of the same thing.

 

[Fixit]

Re: ESPN Points Out the Fan/Media Double Standard for the Patriots

"videotaping the signals is cheating. period. if they'd just had someone watching and was able to figure it out on the fly and then give his interpretations to the coaching staff to make adjustments, that's ok by me. that's working harder and smarter than the other team. i played baseball in college and we'd always watch try to steal signs if we were on the bases or watching the opposing team's 3rd base coach and then share the information once we thought we might have it figured it out. and, the other team was doing the same thing to us. taping is just weasel-like."

 

[maverick4]

Re: ESPN Points Out the Fan/Media Double Standard for the Patriots

The reader comments below the article really make me mad. They show just how completely biased the entire country is toward the Pats, and how much blind hatred there is for the Pats. These readers accuse ESPN of trying to protect the Pats and being biased. How is it biased to use hard data to point out the double standard?

 

[maverick4]

Re: ESPN Points Out the Fan/Media Double Standard for the Patriots

This is insane. Among the most commonly suggested punishments among comments include losing our first 3 draft picks, suspending Belichick for 2 games, forfeiting the Jets game, or barring the Patriots from the post-season!!

 

[ClevTrev]

Re: ESPN Points Out the Fan/Media Double Standard for the Patriots

The reader comments below the article really make me mad. They show just how completely biased the entire country is toward the Pats, and how much blind hatred there is for the Pats. These readers accuse ESPN of trying to protect the Pats and being biased. How is it biased to use hard data to point out the double standard?

A quick correction of your sentence, maverick, and then a point on this. What Pats fans are witnessing are the same dynamics that occurred in the Salem witch trials. People's discomfort and suspicion (due to the Patriots' success) causes them to perceive the worst. In other words, a team with success far beyond what other teams have achieved in the cap era, must be doing something beyond fair play to win. Despite the fact that many other teams take a variety of actions that are against the rules of fair play to achieve a competitive advantage, the fact that the Patriots have been accused is enough for people to assume this is the sole reason for the team's success. It's massive rationalization, since they are uncomfortable with this success. Pretty much human nature.

The similarity with the Salem witch trials is all this personal evaluation being written and reported about Belichick. Now, many of these rumors and innuendos are distorted and false interpretations without factual confirmation. The rules of journalism where sources must have attribution and information must be verified have been thrown to the four winds. This is piling on of the worst kind; yet, it's a solid example of human nature in our culture where those who are very successful become vilified once a flaw in their character is perceived.

 

[maverick4]

Re: ** ESPN Points Out the Fan/Media Double Standard for the Patriots! **

Clev it's a great analogy. This is more like a witchhunt, facts or truth be damned.

I'm not trying to be a homer, what the Pats did was break a rule and should be punished, but I am astounded by the various punishments suggested that are nowhere close to fit the crime. It seems perspective and objectivity are being thrown out the window on this one.

 

[PatriotsReign]

Re: ESPN Points Out the Fan/Media Double Standard for the Patriots

"videotaping the signals is cheating. period. if they'd just had someone watching and was able to figure it out on the fly and then give his interpretations to the coaching staff to make adjustments, that's ok by me. that's working harder and smarter than the other team. i played baseball in college and we'd always watch try to steal signs if we were on the bases or watching the opposing team's 3rd base coach and then share the information once we thought we might have it figured it out. and, the other team was doing the same thing to us. taping is just weasel-like."

No, actually it's really OK.

 

[ClevTrev]

Re: ** ESPN Points Out the Fan/Media Double Standard for the Patriots! **

Clev it's a great analogy. This is more like a witchhunt, facts or truth be damned.

I'm not trying to be a homer, what the Pats did was break a rule and should be punished, but I am astounded by the various punishments suggested that are nowhere close to fit the crime. It seems perspective and objectivity are being thrown out the window on this one.

You get it. It's become a witch hunt. To Roger Goodell: Mete out the punishment ASAP and move on. This is not good for the league or the fans.

 

[maverick4]

Re: ESPN Points Out the Fan/Media Double Standard for the Patriots!!

Any punishment on the Patriots will have ramifications for every other kind of espionage, including audio, binoculars, lip readers, and maybe even videotaping of play on the field.

What should be the appropriate punishment?

 

[PatsLoad]

Re: ESPN Points Out the Fan/Media Double Standard for the Patriots!!

Any punishment on the Patriots will have ramifications for every other kind of espionage, including audio, binoculars, lip readers, and maybe even videotaping of play on the field.

What should be the appropriate punishment?

I doubt that it's not illegal to do it that way from what I understand


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/inside_game/magazine/life_of_reilly/news/2002/01/09/life_of_reilly/

 

[maverick4]

Re: ESPN Points Out the Fan/Media Double Standard for the Patriots!!

from Reilly's article:

"Lipreading is a feverish topic in the NFL these days. Coaches are covering their mouths when they send in plays because they're suspicious that thieves are watching. The coaches look like they had onions for lunch or just graduated from the Istanbul Spy Institute. "We hear rumors all the time about [opposing] coaches hiring guys to read our lips," says Cardinals offensive coordinator Rich Olson.

It's no rumor, pal. "Our guy keeps a pair of binoculars on their signal-callers every game," says Broncos coach Mike Shanahan. "With any luck, we have their defensive signals figured out by halftime. Sometimes, by the end of the first quarter."

Giants coach Jim Fassel thinks it's all lip service. "If someone is that smart," Fassel grouses, "he should be curing cancer, not coaching football."

To check it out, I hired three lip-readers, all women, all football fans and all either hearing impaired or profoundly deaf, to come by the house last weekend. Nice people. They didn't even complain when my younger son tried to sign good morning, but wound up signing screw you instead.

The first game was the Colts' easy win over the Broncos, and the one guy who should've covered his mouth was not a coach but a player, Indianapolis quarterback Peyton Manning. He's Dudley Do-Right in public, but on the field Manning seems to have the vocabulary of a dyspeptic carnival employee. The lip-readers counted nine televised f---s, many dammits, and, once, just for variety's sake, a f-----' d%#*!@t! "

 

[maverick4]

Re: ** ESPN Points Out the Fan/Media Double Standard for the Patriots!! **

I want some media pundit or Chargers/Jets/Colts/Raiders fan to explain this to me:
Many of you claim this threatens the integrity of the league. Explain to me HOW and WHY. Explain to me how this is so much more egregious than lip reading, using audio recording, binoculars, or videotaping of play on the field.

No one is disputing this is a violation of a rule and deserves punishment. I want to know why you think this is a completely ridiculous, over the top, unbelievably dirty move to videotape a sideline. I want you to explain to me how this warrants losing multiple draft picks, or a suspension, or a forfeit, if all those other forms of espionage warrant zero punishment.

 

[stcjones]

http://sports.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/story?id=3015550

This is one of the BEST posts on this subjects so far........EVERYONE is doing this stuff......so if we are considered "cheaters".....EVERY OTHER TEAM are a bunch of f'in CHEATERS too!!! ..

 

[stcjones]

Re: ESPN Points Out the Fan/Media Double Standard for the Patriots

A quick correction of your sentence, maverick, and then a point on this. What Pats fans are witnessing are the same dynamics that occurred in the Salem witch trials. People's discomfort and suspicion (due to the Patriots' success) causes them to perceive the worst. In other words, a team with success far beyond what other teams have achieved in the cap era, must be doing something beyond fair play to win. Despite the fact that many other teams take a variety of actions that are against the rules of fair play to achieve a competitive advantage, the fact that the Patriots have been accused is enough for people to assume this is the sole reason for the team's success. It's massive rationalization, since they are uncomfortable with this success. Pretty much human nature.

The similarity with the Salem witch trials is all this personal evaluation being written and reported about Belichick. Now, many of these rumors and innuendos are distorted and false interpretations without factual confirmation. The rules of journalism where sources must have attribution and information must be verified have been thrown to the four winds. This is piling on of the worst kind; yet, it's a solid example of human nature in our culture where those who are very successful become vilified once a flaw in their character is perceived.

Salem witch trials.......brilliant!....this is actually a great analogy!!! You get one guy who comes out attacking a popular guy who is doing something that this particular guy doesn't like....or because he can't be as good or popular on his own,........and he gets the rest of the town to buy into his lunacy....and it snowballs.....great analogy!!!

 

[stcjones]

Re: ESPN Points Out the Fan/Media Double Standard for the Patriots!!

Any punishment on the Patriots will have ramifications for every other kind of espionage, including audio, binoculars, lip readers, and maybe even videotaping of play on the field.

What should be the appropriate punishment?

Yeah.....but the problem is that the Pats have too much F'IN CLASS to call other teams on this kind of horsesh@@!!!! If ole' pumpkinhead was doing this on Sunday....do you think BB would have called him on it? The only reason Man-gina called in the texas rangers on this is because he got a good old fashioned ***** whipping....and had to try to find some excuse to avoid the embarrassment and verbal raping in the media.......that bloated jackbag is a coward!!!

 

[maverick4]

Re: ESPN Points Out the Fan/Media Double Standard for the Patriots!!

The only reason Man-gina called in the texas rangers on this is because he got a good old fashioned ***** whipping....and had to try to find some excuse to avoid the embarrassment and verbal raping in the media.......that bloated jackbag is a coward!!!

I think Mangini didn't realize how big this would become. Belichick may get impeached, in a way, like Clinton, but Linda Tripp aka Mangini comes out looking like an a-hole.