ESPN NY: Brady Overrated

[RodThePat]

Yeah, but TFB did it in the Salary Cap era, which is an exponentially tougher than the era in which Montana played. Not taking anything away from Montana, but when Brady did it, teams are much more evenly matched due to the nature of the NFL. Montana had monster teams in the 80's, teams which are impossible to assemble today.

I agree, dude. I'm not saying I think Montana was better or anything, but merely pointing out that great QBs have had stretches of bad playoff games before. It happens.

 

[DefenseRules]

Tony Mazz, is that you?

No, but that was my best imitation, did you like it?

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

2010 - manning throws 25 picks and the giants don't make the playoffs
2009 - giants don't make the playoffs
2008 - giants go 12-4 and manning coughs up a hairball against the eagles at home in the divisional
2007 - giants win the SB, but manning had no memorable games other than being saved by samuel and tyree
2006 - manning sucked in one playoff loss
2005 - manning sucked in one playoff loss

going into this year, the only time he's looked anything but stupid in the playoffs was 2007

sorry boys........I ain't seeing it

giants go down big

A little too dismissive about his performances in 2007, but otherwise correct. He's too hot/cold of a QB to be considered top tier. Luckily for us he's pretty due for a mediocre/bad performance, and hopefully he delivers.

 

[DCGiants]

But you could also argue that the 49ers had to go up against monster teams in the playoffs, since the league was allegedly less balanced.

You're right in that they probably had to beat a monster team or two. But from what I remember, back then, the wild card teams were an afterthought. None really amounted to anything in teh playoffs. Also, the league was just generally top heavy, so you had maybe 3,4 teams at most who were monsters (like the NBA today). In essence, what I'm saying is that today's NFL it is more likely for the teams to be upset in the playoffs, rather than back then.

Again, Montana was ridiculous in the playoffs, this coming from a Giants fans. Dude scorched us repeatedly, so it was great to crush him in 1986, and all the sweeter to upset him in 1990. Between those two wins though, he had his way with us.

 

[DCGiants]

I agree, dude. I'm not saying I think Montana was better or anything, but merely pointing out that great QBs have had stretches of bad playoff games before. It happens.

Ahh, good stuff dude. Your point is on the mark as well. Nobody can be flawless throughout their entire career, especially when you consider that JM and TFB played in over 20 playoff games.

I just try to be objective, although I'm a Giants fan by upbringing, I'm really a fan of football, and I can give props when it's due.

 

[Mogamedogz]

After today im on a media blackout. Including here. I wish we could all make a pack as fans...to just STOP posting ALL opinion articles about the Pats from here on out. Good or bad.

 

[Deus Irae]

Ahh, good stuff dude. Your point is on the mark as well. Nobody can be flawless throughout their entire career, especially when you consider that JM and TFB played in over 20 playoff games.

I just try to be objective, although I'm a Giants fan by upbringing, I'm really a fan of football, and I can give props when it's due.

If the JM v. TB thing interests you, maybe this post would be of interest to you:

http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/884379-bradys-postseason-qb-rating-jumps-4-points-after-tonight.html#post2900335

Then again, maybe not. :confused2:

 

[SHOWTIME15]

After today im on a media blackout. Including here. I wish we could all make a pack as fans...to just STOP posting ALL opinion articles about the Pats from here on out. Good or bad.

I know it might be kind of annoying reading these articles. However, you have to realize that (according to Ian) there are a number of important people who read this message board. I suspect some of the Pats players included read this board. Maybe some of the pats execs and coaches too. Sometimes the may not have time to surf around reading all the trash talk. Im sure they are aware of a lot of it but not all. Anyway i think it's important that we as fans do our part to get this team fired up as much as possible before the big game. I know they are already pumped up, but this negative stuff really has to tick them off. I mean have you seen TB play after he's been disrespected?

 

[reflexblue]

Super Bowl 2012 -- Tom Brady not as great as you might think - ESPN New York

With all the trash talk from the giants players and NY media, it feels like Christmas morning around here.

I know a lot of you don't want to hear this but...The TD to INT ratio is correct, those are the facts, they aren't making it up. I looked them up the other day it is what it is. Starting in playoff game against the Broncos in 06, first 2 INT game and first loss.

First 10 games 11 TD's 3 int's, from the 11th game to this years Baltimore game.... 24 TD 16 INT's I hate the NY media, but they aren't pulling those figures out of they're collective arses

 

[RodThePat]

I know a lot of you don't want to hear this but...The TD to INT ratio is correct, those are the facts, they aren't making it up. I looked them up the other day it is what it is. Starting in playoff game against the Broncos in 06, first 2 INT game and first loss.

No one is saying the facts Cimini pointed out are wrong. You can't really use that as the sole basis for a "Brady is overrated" argument, though. That's insanity. Other great quarterbacks have had lousy stretches in the playoffs, hell, John Elway went to 5 SuperBowls, won 2, and didn't have a single above-average performance. I don't see people using those facts to state Elway, contrary to popular belief, flinched in pressure situations. Same with Montana, who had a three game stretch in the playoffs from 85 to 87 way worse than Brady ever did.

And, by the way, Brady's career TD/INT ratio is 2.5. If, in his 'lousy' playoff stretch, he still maintained a 1.5 ratio, that's pretty good. 1.5 TDs for every INT is better than Eli Manning's career TD/INT and yet you have people arguing he has been the better QB as of late.

Not to mention he had 1.1 TD/game through his first 10 playoff games, and a 2.2 TD/game through his last 11. That shows that Brady has had to carry his team on his back on pretty much every game, since after 2004 our defense and running game have been mediocre at best. This kind of responsibility will be reflected in a QB's numbers.

 

[reflexblue]

No one is saying the facts Cimini pointed out are wrong. You can't really use that as the sole basis for a "Brady is overrated" argument, though. That's insanity. Other great quarterbacks have had lousy stretches in the playoffs, hell, John Elway went to 5 SuperBowls, won 2, and didn't have a single above-average performance. I don't see people using those facts to state Elway, contrary to popular belief, flinched in pressure situations. Same with Montana, who had a three game stretch in the playoffs from 85 to 87 way worse than Brady ever did.

And, by the way, Brady's career TD/INT ratio is 2.5. If, in his 'lousy' playoff stretch, he still maintained a 1.5 ratio, that's pretty good. 1.5 TDs for every INT is better than Eli Manning's career TD/INT and yet you have people arguing he has been the better QB as of late.

I'm not siding with them, i'm just saying that their stats are correct when it comes to playoff games. in those first ten games TB threw a lot less passes, they ran the ball more, they relied on the defense, the scores were usually 20-17, 17-13, 20-16 etc.

 

[PatsBoy12]

Should I even respond, or should I just let Brady's play and HOF career speak for itself?

 

[SHOWTIME15]

No one is saying the facts Cimini pointed out are wrong. You can't really use that as the sole basis for a "Brady is overrated" argument, though. That's insanity. Other great quarterbacks have had lousy stretches in the playoffs, hell, John Elway went to 5 SuperBowls, won 2, and didn't have a single above-average performance. I don't see people using those facts to state Elway, contrary to popular belief, flinched in pressure situations. Same with Montana, who had a three game stretch in the playoffs from 85 to 87 way worse than Brady ever did.

And, by the way, Brady's career TD/INT ratio is 2.5. If, in his 'lousy' playoff stretch, he still maintained a 1.5 ratio, that's pretty good. 1.5 TDs for every INT is better than Eli Manning's career TD/INT and yet you have people arguing he has been the better QB as of late.

Not to mention he had 1.1 TD/game through his first 10 playoff games, and a 2.2 TD/game through his last 11. That shows that Brady has had to carry his team on his back on pretty much every game, since after 2004 our defense and running game have been mediocre at best. This kind of responsibility will be reflected in a QB's numbers.

Exactly, cimini is making a generalization at TB is not as advertised because of a bad playoff stretch. Yet Eli is considred great even though he's had only 2 good playoff runs jis entire career. Cimini is just assuming brady will do bad on sunday and eli will play great.

 

[Mogamedogz]

I know it might be kind of annoying reading these articles. However, you have to realize that (according to Ian) there are a number of important people who read this message board. I suspect some of the Pats players included read this board. Maybe some of the pats execs and coaches too. Sometimes the may not have time to surf around reading all the trash talk. Im sure they are aware of a lot of it but not all. Anyway i think it's important that we as fans do our part to get this team fired up as much as possible before the big game. I know they are already pumped up, but this negative stuff really has to tick them off. I mean have you seen TB play after he's been disrespected?

I think it is pretty safe to assume, that nothing said about Brady in the media between now and Sunday, will change how hard he plays the game on Sunday. He will put everything he has out there for us, the way he always does.

 

[robbomango]

Here's a list of 8 QB's with about 20 PO games, Interesting to note Brady's thrown the most passes(attempts/completions) with the exception of Favre out of all the other QB's.

1. Montana....460 of 734 62.7% 5772yd....45td....21int...95.6qbr.....record16-7
2. Favre........481 of 791 60.8% 5855yd....44td....30int...86.3qbr.....record13-11
3. Brady........472 of 752 62.8% 5009yd....36td....19int...87.6qbr .....record16-5
4. Marino......385 of 687 56.0% 4510yd....32td.....24int...77.1qbr.....record8-10
5. Peyton......453 of 718 63.1% 5389yd....29td.....19int...88.4qbr.....record9-10
6. Elway.......355 of 651 54.5% 4964yd....27td.....21int...79.7qbr.....record14-8
7. S Young....292 of 471 62.0% 3326yd....20td.....13int...85.8qbr.....record8-6
8. Bradshaw..261 of 456 57.2% 3833yd....30td.....26int...83.0qbr.....record14-5

 

[NinjaZX6R]

Silly Jets beat writer.

 

[ThatllMoveTheChains!!!]

Here's a list of 8 QB's with about 20 PO games, Interesting to note Brady's thrown the most passes(attempts/completions) with the exception of Favre out of all the other QB's.

1. Montana....460 of 734....45td....21int
2. Favre........481 of 791....44td....30int
3. Brady........472 of 752....36td....19int
4. Marino......385 of 687....32td.....24int
5. Peyton......453 of 718....29td....19int
6. Elway.......355 of 651....27td.....21int
7. S Young....292 of 471....20td.....13int
8. Bradshaw..261 of 456....30td.....26int

You mean list of 8 overrated QBs...

 

[Danger Zone]

This is just ******ed. Seriously, it is.

The great Joe Montana once had a stretch of three playoff losses, between 85 and 87, in which the 49ers got destroyed by a combined score of 102-30. In that stretch, Joe threw for 0 TDs, 4 INTs, 503 yards and a combined 50.3 passer rating. I'm sure there were articles saying he was overrated then too.

Stop the madness.

Awesome info Rod! I might put these Montana stats in my sig!

And I got it. Your point is very relative to the topic at hand. Your statistics shine a light on how utterly stupid the criticism is.

 

[upstater1]

I'm not siding with them, i'm just saying that their stats are correct when it comes to playoff games. in those first ten games TB threw a lot less passes, they ran the ball more, they relied on the defense, the scores were usually 20-17, 17-13, 20-16 etc.

He had great games against Carolina, Indy #1, Indy #2, Pittsburgh, Indy #3, Jax #1 and Jax #2.

In the 3rd Indy game, the INT that Cimini mentions came with seconds left. Game was over.

In 8 of Brady's first 14 playoff games they needed Brady's stellar passing to win. Otherwise, they don't beat those teams.

 

[derF]

Here's what happens when NY'ers (Tommy Favaloro) make predictions: New York Jets: Why the Jets Will Claim the AFC East Throne in 2011 | Bleacher Report

How'd that work out???