Welcome to PatsFans.com

ESPN Mock going on right now has us taking...

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by Richter, Apr 27, 2006.

  1. Richter

    Richter Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2005
    Messages:
    2,112
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    DeAngelo Williams. Can't say I'd be too happy if that happened, especially with Chad Jackson and Richard Marshall still on the board. Good thing the boys from Bristol are wrong so often.
  2. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    23,735
    Likes Received:
    47
    Ratings:
    +53 / 0 / -1

    #50 Jersey

    No friggin way they take Williams like that. If anything, they trade down.
    I'd take NEM making the picks for the Pats over those two. OK. Maybe not. But you all get the gist of it.
  3. Bobs My Uncle

    Bobs My Uncle PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    2,273
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    Williams would be an awesome pick for us.

    Williams is a top 10 talent and he's a proven productive player who just so happens to play a position which handles the ball a ton of times per game. Exactly what you want with 1st round picks!

    What's not to like about such a pick?
  4. Amnorix

    Amnorix Rookie

    Joined:
    Jan 16, 2006
    Messages:
    491
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Takes two the play the trade down game. You need someone who wants to move up as well.
  5. spacecrime

    spacecrime Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    8,329
    Likes Received:
    17
    Ratings:
    +17 / 0 / -0

    Then won't he be gone when we pick at 21?
  6. Bobs My Uncle

    Bobs My Uncle PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    2,273
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    Depends on which teams need a RB prior to us picking.
  7. Ochmed Jones

    Ochmed Jones Rookie

    Joined:
    Dec 21, 2004
    Messages:
    5,727
    Likes Received:
    4
    Ratings:
    +5 / 1 / -0

    #12 Jersey

    Trades

    Yesterday someone posted that BB was looking to move up to #13. Today a collegue in Michigan says one fof the newspaper's up there reported that BB called Millen about the #9 pick. (He's suppose to send me the link.) GBN wrote that New England was one of the teams interested in WR Walker of Green Bay.

    Are these examples of disinformation or is BB just performing his due diligience as the draft nears?????
  8. Remix 6

    Remix 6 Rookie

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2006
    Messages:
    7,780
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    if we move up to 9 its gotta be either.
    1)Huff
    2) Davis
    3) Lawson
    4) Greenway

    one of those guys at 9 if we move up
  9. Richter

    Richter Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2005
    Messages:
    2,112
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    I don't consider him a top 10 talent, not even close in this draft. He was productive in college, which is a positive indicator, but it doesn't impress me, especially with the level of competition he faced. And who cares how many times he handles the ball? Richard Seymour is lucky to handle the ball 3 or 4 times a season, did that make him a bad first round pick? I'll tell you what's not to like - for the NFL he's small, he's slow, he already has plenty of tread worn off his tires, he'll be making a bigger leap in terms of competition in comparison to other prospects, and taking a running back in the first round is always a shakier investment than other positions. Running backs have short shelf lives, and good ones can be found in later rounds. I'd be much happier to take a defensive player in the first to bolster the back 7, then look at a guy like Addai in the second as a much better value.
  10. Richter

    Richter Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2005
    Messages:
    2,112
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    If the Pats move up to 9, it's got to be for Huff.
  11. Keegs

    Keegs Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2006
    Messages:
    4,924
    Likes Received:
    7
    Ratings:
    +7 / 0 / -0

    is there a reason Greenway fell to #28 in this?? would u call that realistic? wouldn't the pats have taken him at #21 in a heartbeat considering who was gone and who wasnt?
  12. Richter

    Richter Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2005
    Messages:
    2,112
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    I doubt the draft shakes out like this. The run of defensive players could happen, but one of those teams in the middle of the round is going to be enticed by a receiver or running back. More than one of the top linebackers is going to be there for the Pats, I'm willing to bet, including Greenway.
  13. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    23,735
    Likes Received:
    47
    Ratings:
    +53 / 0 / -1

    #50 Jersey

    What's not to like? Hmm? Where to start?

    1) Quality of competition he faced. It was pretty poor his entire college career. When he was supposed to face a quality defense with tons of scouts in the stands, his injury miraculously flared up after saying he was going to play. Sorry, the coach's comments afterwards smell like a coach trying to do damage control and protect his player's reputation.
    2) Seems to milk injuries
    3) TOO much tread worn off his tires already.
    4) Doesn't break many tackles.
    5) Can't block to save his life.
    6) Has problems picking up the blitz.


    Sorry, I don't believe the hype about Williams. I don't believe he is top 10 talent.
  14. Bobs My Uncle

    Bobs My Uncle PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    2,273
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    Fair. So who do you like @ 21 nstead?

    What if Addai isn't there in the 2nd?
  15. patsox23

    patsox23 Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    7,384
    Likes Received:
    9
    Ratings:
    +9 / 0 / -0

    If the Patriots trade up to the top 10 and DON'T take Michael Huff I will cry.
  16. Bobs My Uncle

    Bobs My Uncle PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    2,273
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    Fair. So who do you like @ 21 instead?
  17. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    23,735
    Likes Received:
    47
    Ratings:
    +53 / 0 / -1

    #50 Jersey

    I don't see the Pats trading up to #10. Why? Because of VALUE. It will take either our #2 or a combination of out picks to get us there. And I just don't see it happening. BB's not one to waste picks like that.

    I mean, what is the most that BB has moved up in the draft? In the 1st round, I think its 2-3 slots at most.
  18. bakes781

    bakes781 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2006
    Messages:
    2,899
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    In order for us to move all the way up to 9 we'd have to basically trade our entire draft.
  19. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    23,735
    Likes Received:
    47
    Ratings:
    +53 / 0 / -1

    #50 Jersey

    I see the Pats taking either Carpenter or Greenway. They could take Chad Jackson there, though I don't think he fits into their value scheme in the 1st round. Marcus McNeil could be another candidate, taking Gorin's place on the roster and giving the Pats tremendous depth at tackle. I think that McNeil would push both Light and Kaczur for playing time and a starting position.

    Personally, if the draft worked out like that, I would be on the phone to Houston to find out if the Texans wanted to move their #2 pick (33) and a #3 pick for the 21st. Or a deal where the Pats would trade their 1st and 2nd picks for #33, #66, and a 2nd next year.

    I think that Casserly would be drooling at the possibility of moving up to take McNeil and give Carr an legitimate OT to help solidify their O-line.
  20. DaBruinz

    DaBruinz Pats, B's, Sox PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2005
    Messages:
    23,735
    Likes Received:
    47
    Ratings:
    +53 / 0 / -1

    #50 Jersey

    That's not true. The Pats would probably have to trade their 1st and 2nd picks as well as their early 3rd rounder.
  21. Holy Diver

    Holy Diver Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2004
    Messages:
    10,800
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -0

    we could've used a running back or two last year....

    Amos Zeroe anyone?
  22. Richter

    Richter Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2005
    Messages:
    2,112
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    I don't really like this running back class at all, honestly. Williams, Mauroney, White, none of them impress me at the top. The guys who might be value picks later on all have serious warts, except for Addai. Calhoun and Drew are both players that won't be feature backs, at least not in the Pats' offense. I'd rather take a chance on a player at a later pick, if I chose a back at all in this draft. Maybe Mike Bell or Dontrell Moore. At 21, I'm looking defense all the way. Someone for the back 7, either an linebacker with like Lawson or Carpenter, or a cornerback. My ideal scenario would probably be picking up one of the linebackers, then trading up in the second to secure a guy like Marshall, then looking for receiver, running back and line depth on both sides of the ball.
  23. Bobs My Uncle

    Bobs My Uncle PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    2,273
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    Though I doubt he'd see much, if any starter action this season for us, I could live with getting Greenway. At least he'd play ST's a ton. But I want to see our 1st rounder play and contribute to winning a SB THIS year.

    I want no part of Carpenter. I watched a ton of Buckeye games. Talk about overrated. This link sums up my feelings on Carpenter perfectly. http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2006/carpenter_bobby Give me Schelgel instead.

    McNeil? Read the summary at http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2006/mcneill_marcus Sounds like the anti Patriot to me.

    I guess the point is anyone that is drafted @ 21 will be full of faults. If they weren't they'd be drafted in the top 5.
  24. Bobs My Uncle

    Bobs My Uncle PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    2,273
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    But, like with Williams, these guys will all have warts on them.

    From the 21st spot it's to be expected.
  25. JJDChE

    JJDChE Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Messages:
    1,846
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    Shoot, I don't even want a RB in the 1st (or even 2nd), but your criticisms of Williams are terrible. If you don't want a RB, just say it. Your post is a waterfall of bogus excuses.

    1.) "who cares how many times he handles the ball?"

    Ummm, everyone? That is one of the biggest concerns with RBs comong out of college..."Can they handle the load in the NFL?" You hear it constantly around draft time .


    2.) "for the NFL he's small"

    No, he isn't. He's 5'10" 217. That's prototypical RB size. Emmitt Smith, LT, Clinton Portis, Cadillac Williams.


    3.) "he's slow"

    He's a 4.5-ish type guy, which is pretty standard for an NFL RB, about where Barry Sanders and Emmitt Smith were. His game is vision and lateral movement, he has plenty of straight line speed. 40-yd times are low on the list of number to evaluate RB's with.


    4.) "he already has plenty of tread worn off his tires"

    Please. He's 23. No rookie RB has plenty of tread worn off their tires.


    5.) "bigger leap in terms of competition in comparison to other prospects"

    People said the same type of garbage about Tomlinson.


    6.) "taking a running back in the first round is always a shakier investment than other positions...and good ones can be found in later rounds"

    It's been proven to be one of the least risky positions to take in the first round. It's more rare to get an impact RB on day 2 than any other position. There is a better correlation between draft position and success for RBs than any other position.


    7.) "Running backs have short shelf lives"

    So, you don't want to draft any RBs? Their shelf life is rarely shorter than their rookie contract.
  26. zippo59

    zippo59 Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2006
    Messages:
    5,072
    Likes Received:
    2
    Ratings:
    +2 / 0 / -0

    I'm a little perplexed by the large amount of fans on this board who are in love with Greenway. While I don't put very much stock in measureables it does not appear that Greenway has the upper body strength or the physicality to be an elite NFL LB. This is just what I have heard, I have not myself seen Greenway play very often.
  27. Richter

    Richter Rookie

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2005
    Messages:
    2,112
    Likes Received:
    3
    Ratings:
    +3 / 0 / -0

    Sure, but you're not spending the 21st pick on those backs. Instead, you can pick a player on the defensive side of the ball who is a better value, fits the Pats' scheme better and does not have such glaring issues as Williams does. A Lawson or Wimbley or Carpenter might be able to come in and become a big rush threat off the edge immediately, and really solidify the front seven, whereas at best a guy like Williams will split carries with Dillon, or worse, replace him if he's injured and quite possibly allow Brady to get lit up because of his blocking. Better to get a guy later who can take some carries and be groomed for the future, I think.
  28. SamBamsFan

    SamBamsFan Rookie

    Joined:
    Apr 22, 2006
    Messages:
    1,165
    Likes Received:
    0
    Ratings:
    +0 / 0 / -0

    Didn't we move up 11 to pick Graham? It was more than 2-3.

    Added this from Patriots.com trade history:
    Choice was acquired from Washington for the Patriots first round pick (32nd overall), third round pick (96th) and seventh round pick (234th) of the 2002 draft.
    Last edited: Apr 27, 2006
  29. Bobs My Uncle

    Bobs My Uncle PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2005
    Messages:
    2,273
    Likes Received:
    6
    Ratings:
    +6 / 0 / -1

    #12 Jersey

    I could see Williams splitting much more time with Dillon than any LB not named Hawk splitting time in the Pats very complicated defense.

    I really don't see BB trusting an underachieving LB like Carpenter or a green conversion project like Lawson (who is a DE) out there in his defense? Heck, he barely trusted a seasoned vet like Chad Brown in it.
  30. JJDChE

    JJDChE Rookie

    Joined:
    Sep 17, 2004
    Messages:
    1,846
    Likes Received:
    1
    Ratings:
    +1 / 0 / -0

    moving up from 32 to 21 isn't like moving up from 21 to 11 or 9. It would cost at least twice as much.

Share This Page