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Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by PatRiot, Dec 14, 2010.

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  1. PatRiot

    PatRiot Practice Squad Player

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    #95 Jersey

    I can`t believe it. The Patriots are playing one of his best football in history and wtf is ESPN doing ? They are talking about garbage time stats etc.

    Read this:

    Quick Reads: Weighing garbage timeTom Brady has been as good as ever. But are blowout wins distorting his real impact? Football Outsiders
    Archive
    If there's any critique people can throw at Tom Brady these days, it's that his New England Patriots are running up the score in blowouts. Over the past two weeks, dominant victories over the New York Jets and Chicago Bears have been marked by the presence of Brady in the lineup late in the game, picking up passing yards while opposing defenders are plotting their disappointed postgame tweets in their heads.


    On the other hand, DVOA suggests that Brady hasn't been saving his success for garbage time. Even before the Bears game, he comfortably led the league in DVOA and DYAR. That's not about to change after DVOA is completed upon the conclusion of the Monday night games, either; for the fourth week out of five and third week in a row, Brady had the best performance by any quarterback. And that was in a driving snowstorm.


    DVOA accounts for the game situations in which players accrue passing yards, but Brady can still get an impressive DVOA by outperforming the way an average quarterback performs in garbage time. Is that what is happening? Does he get a disproportionate amount of his yardage in the latter stages of blowouts, relative to other quarterbacks? Let's take a look at the numbers.


    To see if Tom Brady's impact on the game is at all distorted by garbage time, plus Football Outsiders' list of the best, worst and most surprising performances of Week 14, you must be an ESPN Insider.



    Here is the link:
    NFL Week 14 best and worst performances - Football Outsiders - ESPN
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2010
  2. RodThePat

    RodThePat In the Starting Line-Up

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    The only reason there is a "garbage time" in the first place is because Brady's prior performance took the competitiveness out of the game.

    And please, running up the score?? We scored three points in the second half.

    Profootballfocus and Footballoutsiders are of no relevance to football discussion. It's not like baseball where you can actively measure a player's value using some advanced statistics. Football is a much more subjective game.
     
  3. goheels22002

    goheels22002 PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #50 Jersey

    I knew that was it. Brady is running it up in garbage time.

    Is having only 4 interceptions all year and 1 fumble by a running back considered running it up? Is leading the league in takeaway/TO ratio running it up?

    Morons.
     
  4. BSR

    BSR In the Starting Line-Up

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    I don't have insider so I can't see his conclusion. I would have to think that his garbage time stats are bringing his numbers down not up.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2010
  5. patsox23

    patsox23 Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    Prickly Patriots fans make us look a little crazy, IMO.

    On the other hand, DVOA suggests that Brady hasn't been saving his success for garbage time. Even before the Bears game, he comfortably led the league in DVOA and DYAR. That's not about to change after DVOA is completed upon the conclusion of the Monday night games, either; for the fourth week out of five and third week in a row, Brady had the best performance by any quarterback. And that was in a driving snowstorm.
     
  6. convertedpatsfan

    convertedpatsfan PatsFans.com Supporter PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #12 Jersey

    Yeah. They're just trying to sell subscriptions. Calm down folks.
     
  7. BSR

    BSR In the Starting Line-Up

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    Nonsense. Every statistic has to be put into context but there is certainly a use for statistics in football. You would be crazy to think for instance that BB doesn't take probability into consideration for some of his decisions. Profootballfocus, to my understanding, is not a statistical site and Footballoutsiders is as about as good as it gets when it comes to statistical evaluation in football.
     
  8. NEGoldenAge

    NEGoldenAge Banned

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    The Pats scored 3 points in the second half against the Bears, obviously running up the score.
     
  9. Triumph

    Triumph Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #32 Jersey

    That is running up the score for the Jets offense.
     
  10. patsfan-1982

    patsfan-1982 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Tom Brady, is about to get MVP #2 and has a shot at super bowl MVP #3 and ring #4 that would pretty much knock every QB out of the water so they have to find same way to talk bad about him
     
  11. ausbacker

    ausbacker Brady > Manning. PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #51 Jersey

    I hate the fact that the Patriots play so well in games that they're ahead for the majority of games. It's quite disturbing that they offense tries to score and the defense tries to stop the opponents scoring.

    I might stop watching football now. Thanks ESPN. Thanks a lot.
     
  12. NJPatsfan26

    NJPatsfan26 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Garbage time...

    Sounds like BSPN is talking about itself again. :eek::eek:
     
  13. Palm Beach Pats Fan

    Palm Beach Pats Fan In the Starting Line-Up

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    #12 Jersey

    Tom is 13th in the league in pass attempts.

    Garbage time?

    Please.

    Peyton Manning has chucked it up 144 more times than Tom. Do you think the media will make much mention of that if or when he close in on Marino's single season yardage record? Or that Peyton may have had some garbage time of his own without the 15 interceptions? Peyton is 17th in yards per pass attempt.

    Passing yards, by the way, is the QB statistic that correlates LEAST with winning, among passer rating, TD/INT, completion percentage, and yardage.
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2010
  14. BradyManny

    BradyManny Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    First off, what difference would it make - every other QB in the league gets the advantage of playing a 60 minute game.

    Second, it's absurd - they only threw the ball a handful of times in the 4th against the Jets, they ran the ball over them. Against the Bears, both of his TDs and almost all of his damage came in the first half.
     
  15. Lampshade

    Lampshade Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I would imagine Brady has fewer garbage time stats almost than any QB in the league.

    Does anyone have ESPN Insider?
     
  16. Patriot_in_NY

    Patriot_in_NY Veteran Starter w/Big Long Term Deal

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    Methinks someone is fishing for "clicks".... Move along folks. Nothing to see here. :rolleyes:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2010
  17. patsfaninpittsburgh

    patsfaninpittsburgh Banned

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    Maybe I am didn't read this correctly but the article seems to infer that the stats are not a function of garbage time.

    Also, stats do tell a tale. A good review of stat interpretation seems to indicate turnovers are the premier measure of a defense. Knowing this helps when getting players.
     
  18. Lampshade

    Lampshade Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I'm sure the analysis confirms Brady has gotten very little in the way of garbage time stats, but the leading "Tom Brady has put up some big numbers. But has his impact been inflated by his performance in garbage time?" is clearly written to suggest otherwise and to get clicks.

    Unfortunately, the takeaway message that the vast majority of people will get is "Tom Brady's numbers have been inflated by garbage time".
     
  19. BradfordPatsFan

    BradfordPatsFan In the Starting Line-Up

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    And THIS is example #9402140246723 why I don't go to BSPN for anything outside of Reiss and live game broadcasts.
     
  20. TX_Patriot

    TX_Patriot On the Game Day Roster

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    Brady is starting to run away with the MVP, they just want to make people think that the race is really closer than it seems. I mean, during the Philly-Dallas game, they kept saying how much Vick really means to his team and that if he wasn't playing Philly would have no shot this year...blah , blah, blah. They're starting to talk up second through fifth in the mvp race just to get people to watch/read their crap.

    I forget where I read it, but there was a story saying that the shellacking KC took this week was proof that Matty Cassel deserves the MVP. I love Matt and all, but really?

    And lastly, why doesn't ESPN link this article:

    http://www.coldhardfootballfacts.com/Articles/11_3518_King_Philip:_lord_of_big,_empty_numbers.html

    I mean, aren't they trying to be fair and balanced about the MVP candidates?
     
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2010
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