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ESPN: Cliff Lee returns to Phillies (Yankees Suck)


Re: ESPN: Yankees out of the run for Cliff Lee

The only possible stud I could see them going after is Zach Greinke....I think they are pissed now and will overpay or give up too much just to make a move and keep their fans happy....I love this offseason....

Go Sox.....Yankees SUCK

Latest rumor is that Toronto or Washington have upper hand, as the Royals are looking for up the middle action in trades. If that happens, who's left for NY and Texas to bid over?
 
Re: ESPN: Yankees out of the run for Cliff Lee

I'm lost on how some fans downplay Crawford. What part of a Five-Tool player don't they get? Oh right, he doesn't hit 40 home runs..............

Crawford isn't a 5-tool player though. He's a terrific player, but he's missing 2 traditional tools, and that's a hose for an arm, and power. The newer metrics have attempted to make the case that an arm (they actually call the metric ARM) isn't as big a necessity for a player with great speed, but that's debatable. If Crawford hits 25+ bombs then he'd have that tool covered. He hit 19 last year (has never hit 20), but he'lll be in Fenway for 80 games and not the Trop. So we'll have to see how that affects his power numbers.


He's a terrific player though.
 
As a non yahoo baseball fan, who roots for the Yankees, I think people are overplaying the Lee decision. The Yankees won 95 games last year without Lee. Adding Lee would have been a luxury, as opposed to a necessity. If Pettitte retires, then I'll be concerned, but I expect him to resign as he usually does. The Yankees, should Pettitte resign, will be returning 4 of their 5 starters from last years 95 win team. The only non-returning starter will be Vasquez who made 26 starts, threw 157 innings, and pitched to a 5.32 ERA. That is easily replacable. Again, assuming Pettitte comes back.

The Yankees will still be in the mix for the playoffs. Tampa will not be as good as they were last year. Not after losing their closer, top 3 set up men, and 3 positional starters in Crawford, Bartlett, and Pena. Tampa will still be a good team, but they're going to take a step back IMO.
 
Re: ESPN: Yankees out of the run for Cliff Lee

The only possible stud I could see them going after is Zach Greinke....I think they are pissed now and will overpay or give up too much just to make a move and keep their fans happy....I love this offseason....

Go Sox.....Yankees SUCK

I don't think they're going to go after Grienke. They shouldn't IMO. The Royals asked Toronto for a package that started with Drabek and Snider. So no thanks. Grienke has pscychological issues that are well documented. Maybe he's over them and could handle a NY, Boston, or another high pressure market, but I wouldn't risk the prospects it would take to aquire him on it.
 
Re: ESPN: Yankees out of the run for Cliff Lee

I doubt Werth was ever on the Yankees radar and Crawford wasn't worth the money he got from the Sox for us with what he would bring to the table. They are probably looking for a starting pitcher via trade.

What do you mean by "Crawford isn't worth the money he got from the Red Sox?" Since when did the Yankees care about that? I guess Jeter is worth $17 million in his dotage. Give me a break. Do you really think Crawford is not an upgrade over any the Yankees' present outfielders?

An outfield of Crawford-Ellsbury-Drew is defensively outstanding and as solid a group of hitters out there. Solidifying left field for the next 6-7 years is worth it.
 
Cliff Lee Chooses Philly over the Evil Empire ... :rofl:
...
Supposedly he was devastated when traded by the Phillies last year. His agent ( Boras) was playing hardball for max deal and Phillies didn't play. He must have liked Philly to want back.. solid pitching staff Halliday, Oswalt, Hamels and now Lee.......
Around here, people would love to have Boston-Philly Series..just to aggravate the New Yorkers.......
 
Re: ESPN: Yankees out of the run for Cliff Lee

So which teams OF is better? While both are very good, I could arguably make the case that a Gardner/Granderson/Swisher OF is better overall, than a Crawford/Ellsbury/Drew OF. Again, arguablly though.
 
Re: ESPN: Yankees out of the run for Cliff Lee

What do you mean by "Crawford isn't worth the money he got from the Red Sox?" Since when did the Yankees care about that? I guess Jeter is worth $17 million in his dotage. Give me a break. Do you really think Crawford is not an upgrade over any the Yankees' present outfielders?

An outfield of Crawford-Ellsbury-Drew is defensively outstanding and as solid a group of hitters out there. Solidifying left field for the next 6-7 years is worth it.

what Im saying is going right over your head (not surprised). 140mil isnt what the Yankees should be paying for what Carl Crawford has over Gardner.
 
Originally Posted by bigcountry75
The only possible stud I could see them going after is Zach Greinke....I think they are pissed now and will overpay or give up too much just to make a move and keep their fans happy....I love this offseason....

Go Sox.....Yankees SUCK

I don't think they're going to go after Grienke. They shouldn't IMO. The Royals asked Toronto for a package that started with Drabek and Snider. So no thanks. Grienke has pscychological issues that are well documented. Maybe he's over them and could handle a NY, Boston, or another high pressure market, but I wouldn't risk the prospects it would take to aquire him on it.

He has a NTC to NY and although he seems to have his anxiety issues under control I dont think pitching in the pressure cooker of NY will help matters.
 
Re: ESPN: Yankees out of the run for Cliff Lee

So which teams OF is better? While both are very good, I could arguably make the case that a Gardner/Granderson/Swisher OF is better overall, than a Crawford/Ellsbury/Drew OF. Again, arguablly though.

You're kidding right?
Crawford > Gardner.

Gardner is completely outclassed here. Name something Gardner does and Crawford does it better.

Ellsbury > Granderson

Granderson may have more pop in his bat but he is a strikeout machine and sports a sub .250 BA. When healthy Ellsbury also has the speed, BA, and OBP edge.

Drew = Swisher

Offensively I'd say they are a draw. Swisher hits for slightly more power but Drew hits for better OBP and strikes out far less. Drew's outfield defense is also superior. Swisher has better health though and is a switch hitter, I don't know his splits but that is a plus when drawing lineups. So basically we're trading off better defense vs better health here. I'll call this one a wash, but when healthy Drew is the better overall player for sure.
 
Re: ESPN: Yankees out of the run for Cliff Lee

You're kidding right?
Crawford > Gardner.

Gardner is completely outclassed here. Name something Gardner does and Crawford does it better.

They both stole 47 bases last year. Gardner did so with 98 fewer plate appearances though. So Crawford isn't better there.

OBP Gardner > Crawford. By about 30 points. Critical for a lead off hitter which is what Gardner is/will be.

P/PA Gardner led all of baseball in pitches per plate appearance at 4.61 per. Crawford was #118 at 3.74 per. This is why Crawford can't lead off, and Gardner can.

Oh, and Gardner is a better defender. He actually ranks as the best defensive LF in baseball. If you believe in the metrics thing. I tend to apply salt to them whenever possible.

Major League Leaderboards 2010 Left Fielders Fielding Statistics | FanGraphs Baseball

Remember, I think Crawford is a terrific player, and better than Gardner overall. I just think Gardner has some very good qualities that aren't noticed if you don't follow the team alot.

Ellsbury > Granderson

Granderson may have more pop in his bat but he is a strikeout machine and sports a sub .250 BA. When healthy Ellsbury also has the speed, BA, and OBP edge.

Ellsbury is a good player, but Granderson is the more complete player. 25-30 homers in CF is production that SB's just don't match. I'd take either one on my team, but if I have Gardner already, I take Granderson over Ellsbury. Remember, I'm talking the best outfield. Not the best of two players. Which 3-some is better is what I'm shooting at. I think both are very good. I'm just saying if I had to pick one, I could make an "arguable" case for Gardner/Granderson/Swisher. Which means someone could make an arguable case the other way as well. :)

Drew = Swisher

Offensively I'd say they are a draw. Swisher hits for slightly more power but Drew hits for better OBP and strikes out far less. Drew's outfield defense is also superior. Swisher has better health though and is a switch hitter, I don't know his splits but that is a plus when drawing lineups. So basically we're trading off better defense vs better health here. I'll call this one a wash, but when healthy Drew is the better overall player for sure.

Drew's more talented, but he's china doll, and loses by default. Drew's per year averages in his 4 years in Boston are .270/19/66, meh. Swisher's 2 year averages in NY are .270/29/85 and their OBP's in that time are .12 apart. I say edge Swisher in a one on one, but like I said before, I'm more focused on judging the outfields as a group.

I think the two outfields are pretty close. Sox should steal more bases, and hit for a higher avg, but the Yankees should get on base more, steal about 70 bases in their own right, and club a good 60+ homers. Man, when you think about steals, the Sox should duo should swipe like 100-120 bags between the two of them. That's really nuts.
 
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Re: ESPN: Yankees out of the run for Cliff Lee

what Im saying is going right over your head (not surprised). 140mil isnt what the Yankees should be paying for what Carl Crawford has over Gardner.

That's because Gardner isn't in Crawford's league. I hope you enjoy Ellsbury and Crawford running on every pitch against the Yankees' geezer pitching staff.
 
Re: ESPN: Yankees out of the run for Cliff Lee

So which teams OF is better? While both are very good, I could arguably make the case that a Gardner/Granderson/Swisher OF is better overall, than a Crawford/Ellsbury/Drew OF. Again, arguablly though.
lmao what are you smoking? i want some
 
Re: ESPN: Yankees out of the run for Cliff Lee

That's because Gardner isn't in Crawford's league. I hope you enjoy Ellsbury and Crawford running on every pitch against the Yankees' geezer pitching staff.

Talk to me when Ellsbury plays a full season. Gardner>Crawford on the basepaths.
 
Re: ESPN: Yankees out of the run for Cliff Lee

They both stole 47 bases last year. Gardner did so with 98 fewer plate appearances though. So Crawford isn't better there.

OBP Gardner > Crawford. By about 30 points. Critical for a lead off hitter which is what Gardner is/will be.

P/PA Gardner led all of baseball in pitches per plate appearance at 4.61 per. Crawford was #118 at 3.74 per. This is why Crawford can't lead off, and Gardner can.

Oh, and Gardner is a better defender. He actually ranks as the best defensive LF in baseball. If you believe in the metrics thing. I tend to apply salt to them whenever possible.

Remember, I think Crawford is a terrific player, and better than Gardner overall. I just think Gardner has some very good qualities that aren't noticed if you don't follow the team alot.

Oh give me a break. Carl Crawford has been doing stellar defense for seven whole seasons (no season with an UZR below 10.2). Brett Gardner's done it once with a 22 UZR (his UZR the season before was 3). In 2008 Jacoby Ellsbury had an UZR of 21, followed by a -9 UZR in 2009. A prime example of inconsistency, which could be the same case with Gardner.

While it isn't safe to say Gardner's 2010 season (defensively) was a fluke, it also isn't safe to call him a better defender than Carl Crawford. Crawford has proved to be consistent (all around), Gardner has not.

I'll take the stretch of seven whole seasons over one.
 
Not that I'm taking shots at anybody in here, because I enjoy reading both of your posts. But I'm just curious: How in the HELL does one become a Pats and Yankees fan? I would think that those two allegiances are like oil and water.

If you already answered this, then I'm sorry to bring it up again.
 
Not that I'm taking shots at anybody in here, because I enjoy reading both of your posts. But I'm just curious: How in the HELL does one become a Pats and Yankees fan? I would think that those two allegiances are like oil and water.

If you already answered this, then I'm sorry to bring it up again.

Lots of Yankee fans here in Rhode island ... most of them Italians.
The fathers loved the Yankees and passed it down to the kids.
I believe Dom dimaggio had a lot to do with this.

I don't get it but i see it all the time where I live.
 


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