Espn :Better defensive coach, Belichick or Ryan?

[JB1089]

So you weren't following the Patriots back then. It's either that, or you were too young to remember. I'll take either explanation.

The '03 defense was and is still looked at as one of the top three defenses of all time. The '04 defense was still dominant, even with the massive injuries to the secondary.

By who, exactly?

Sorry, I can't let that one go by without responding.

The '03 Pats defense was a great defense. You can easily put them in the top 10 for the decade and make an argument for them being in the top 5. But, they don't even sniff the top 3 all-time.

'00 Ravens, '00 Titans, '01 Steelers, '02 Bucs, '03 Patriots, '04 Steelers, '05 Bears, '06 Ravens, '08 Steelers, '09 Jets. Those were the best defenses of the past decade, with the '00 Ravens and '02 Bucs in the conversation for best defense of all time. The '08 Steelers are in the conversation for top 10 all time.

The best defenses of all-time? There's no conclusive answer, but the '69-71 Vikings, the '76 Steelers, and the '85, '86, and '88 Bears all have to be included in any conversation. All of them were a notch (or several notches) above the '03 Pats.

They were a truly great defense, something we're not guaranteed to see in any given year, but to say that they were even close to being one of the 3 best defenses of all time shows an ignorance of NFL history.



As for the thread topic. Belichick is already in the Pantheon of great NFL coaches. Ryan has been a head coach for less than two years, he's off to a nice start, but that's it. If you want to isolate the defensive side of the ball, Belichick gets a slight advantage based on longevity, but Ryan is off to a fantastic start (Total Defense rankings since becoming DC in Baltimore: 5th, 1st, 6th, 2nd, 1st, 3rd. The '07 Ravens were 6th in total defense, but 22nd in PA due to 40 turnovers by the offense; the 14 INT and 26 fumbles lost led to Billick's firing).

There's a lot more that goes into being a great head coach than just being a great offensive or defensive mind. Norv Turner is a great offensive mind, that doesn't make him a great coach. That's where I think a lot of people may have misread the question. It's not asking who's a better coach, there's no need to ask that question. You won't find a better defensive mind than Rex Ryan. Whether he's able to grow into a great head coach is another matter altogether.

 

[RobertWeathers]

By who, exactly?

Sorry, I can't let that one go by without responding.

The '03 Pats defense was a great defense. You can easily put them in the top 10 for the decade and make an argument for them being in the top 5. But, they don't even sniff the top 3 all-time.

'00 Ravens, '00 Titans, '01 Steelers, '02 Bucs, '03 Patriots, '04 Steelers, '05 Bears, '06 Ravens, '08 Steelers, '09 Jets. Those were the best defenses of the past decade, with the '00 Ravens and '02 Bucs in the conversation for best defense of all time. The '08 Steelers are in the conversation for top 10 all time.


The best defenses of all-time? There's no conclusive answer, but the '69-71 Vikings, the '76 Steelers, and the '85, '86, and '88 Bears all have to be included in any conversation. All of them were a notch (or several notches) above the '03 Pats.

Need to include the 80s 49ers D in the conversation. If you look at the numbers over the entire decade, they were right there and better in some seasons than the Bears for points allowed. Their D was vastly underrated.

86 & 90 Giants too.

 

[Kontradiction]

By who, exactly?

Sorry, I can't let that one go by without responding.

The '03 Pats defense was a great defense. You can easily put them in the top 10 for the decade and make an argument for them being in the top 5. But, they don't even sniff the top 3 all-time.

'00 Ravens, '00 Titans, '01 Steelers, '02 Bucs, '03 Patriots, '04 Steelers, '05 Bears, '06 Ravens, '08 Steelers, '09 Jets. Those were the best defenses of the past decade, with the '00 Ravens and '02 Bucs in the conversation for best defense of all time. The '08 Steelers are in the conversation for top 10 all time.

The best defenses of all-time? There's no conclusive answer, but the '69-71 Vikings, the '76 Steelers, and the '85, '86, and '88 Bears all have to be included in any conversation. All of them were a notch (or several notches) above the '03 Pats.

They were a truly great defense, something we're not guaranteed to see in any given year, but to say that they were even close to being one of the 3 best defenses of all time shows an ignorance of NFL history.



As for the thread topic. Belichick is already in the Pantheon of great NFL coaches. Ryan has been a head coach for less than two years, he's off to a nice start, but that's it. If you want to isolate the defensive side of the ball, Belichick gets a slight advantage based on longevity, but Ryan is off to a fantastic start (Total Defense rankings since becoming DC in Baltimore: 5th, 1st, 6th, 2nd, 1st, 3rd. The '07 Ravens were 6th in total defense, but 22nd in PA due to 40 turnovers by the offense; the 14 INT and 26 fumbles lost led to Billick's firing).

There's a lot more that goes into being a great head coach than just being a great offensive or defensive mind. Norv Turner is a great offensive mind, that doesn't make him a great coach. That's where I think a lot of people may have misread the question. It's not asking who's a better coach, there's no need to ask that question. You won't find a better defensive mind than Rex Ryan. Whether he's able to grow into a great head coach is another matter altogether.

My bad. I was at work and kind of pressed for time when I wrote that. I meant to say "top ten". Sorry to have made you write all of that.

 

[RobertWeathers]

Points Allowed Rank
1990 Cle Browns 28.9 Last
1991 Cle Browns 18.9 14th- BBs 1st year
1992 Cle Browns 17.2 10th
1993 Cle Browns 19.2 17th
1994 Cle Browns 12.8 1st

 

[JB1089]

Points Allowed Rank
1990 Cle Browns 28.9 Last
1991 Cle Browns 18.9 14th- BBs 1st year
1992 Cle Browns 17.2 10th
1993 Cle Browns 19.2 17th
1994 Cle Browns 12.8 1st

1995 Cle Browns 22.2 20th

Is there a reason why you left that year off?

 

[RobertWeathers]

1995 Cle Browns 22.2 20th

Is there a reason why you left that year off?

Modell announced that the team was moving to BAL. The team completely lost focus after that. I am not putting that year totally on BB.

 

[HEY BRO! WHAT UP?]

Yeah but it wasn't as good as the Jets defense is now though. yeah, they're defense was better than it is now but we've never really had an "elite" defense like the Jets.

Without a good Qb, your team team will never win

I think the rest of the board has beaten you up enough for that comment but the current Jets defense couldn't hold the jock strap of the 2003 D.

 

[Kid~Brady]

I think the rest of the board has beaten you up enough for that comment but the current Jets defense couldn't hold the jock strap of the 2003 D.

Who are you telling buddy! I certainly most whole heartedly understand that. I feel like i just got punched in the face... go figure.

 

[SpyG8]

By who, exactly?

Sorry, I can't let that one go by without responding.

The '03 Pats defense was a great defense. You can easily put them in the top 10 for the decade and make an argument for them being in the top 5. But, they don't even sniff the top 3 all-time.

'00 Ravens, '00 Titans, '01 Steelers, '02 Bucs, '03 Patriots, '04 Steelers, '05 Bears, '06 Ravens, '08 Steelers, '09 Jets. Those were the best defenses of the past decade, with the '00 Ravens and '02 Bucs in the conversation for best defense of all time. The '08 Steelers are in the conversation for top 10 all time.

The best defenses of all-time? There's no conclusive answer, but the '69-71 Vikings, the '76 Steelers, and the '85, '86, and '88 Bears all have to be included in any conversation. All of them were a notch (or several notches) above the '03 Pats.

They were a truly great defense, something we're not guaranteed to see in any given year, but to say that they were even close to being one of the 3 best defenses of all time shows an ignorance of NFL history.



As for the thread topic. Belichick is already in the Pantheon of great NFL coaches. Ryan has been a head coach for less than two years, he's off to a nice start, but that's it. If you want to isolate the defensive side of the ball, Belichick gets a slight advantage based on longevity, but Ryan is off to a fantastic start (Total Defense rankings since becoming DC in Baltimore: 5th, 1st, 6th, 2nd, 1st, 3rd. The '07 Ravens were 6th in total defense, but 22nd in PA due to 40 turnovers by the offense; the 14 INT and 26 fumbles lost led to Billick's firing).

There's a lot more that goes into being a great head coach than just being a great offensive or defensive mind. Norv Turner is a great offensive mind, that doesn't make him a great coach. That's where I think a lot of people may have misread the question. It's not asking who's a better coach, there's no need to ask that question. You won't find a better defensive mind than Rex Ryan. Whether he's able to grow into a great head coach is another matter altogether.

Agreed.

 

[alamo]

Ryan does have one ring, as an assistant. But it was five years later before he ascended to defensive coordinator so you can't really call him a critical cog in the 2000 Ravens defensive machine.

And when he was a kid he probably held Daddy's 1985 Bears ring and pretended it was his, but that doesn't count

 

[jmt57]

Finally watched the video just now. Regardless of how you debate this, there were a couple of things that Shawn Springs said that stood out. First, he made a comment along the lines of "letting the players go out and play". That's not an assessment of which coach is better; he's stating his personal preference for style of defense. The fact he prefers an aggressive, high-risk/high reward defense probably says more about him as a player than it does which coach is better.

The other is he falls back on this year's defensive rankings. There's no denying those stats are not very good, or that the 2010 Jets defense is better than the 2010 Pats defense. But the topic was not which team's defense is better this year; it is which coach is a better defensive coach.

A better way of looking at the question would be to consider what each has done with the talent they had available to them on their rosters. Answering the question of who has gotten the most out of their respective players is a better yardstick of 'who is the better coach' than comparing those stats.