ESPN: BenJarvus Green-Ellis NFL's most underrated RB

[fumbrunner]

No offense to BJGE, but Maroney was getting those same high marks with some of the F.O. rankings, and people here were dismissive of those rankings then.

One of the things we overlook as Patriots fans, IMO, is just how well this team uses the running game, in terms of overall efficiency without elite RBs. I'd like to have seen Maroney more integrated into the passing game, but his runs were great examples of how to use an RB1. I think we saw the same thing with BJGE last season.

I'd love to see this team add a Jackson/Peterson type of elite runner on top of the passing attack, just to see how the Patriots worked the player in and how defenses tried to defend it.

ugh more BJGE vs Maroney comparisons. Deus, you just never give up eh? I would love to see the stats for positive yards vs negative yards for each of those two. Call it injuries, or whatever but Maroney never had a season remotely close to BJGE's last year and will never have. :bricks::bricks:

 

[Deus Irae]

ugh more BJGE vs Maroney comparisons. Deus, you just never give up eh? I would love to see the stats for positive yards vs negative yards for each of those two. Call it injuries, or whatever but Maroney never had a season remotely close to BJGE's last year and will never have. :bricks::bricks:

If you'd really read the post, you'd have seen that I wasn't comparing the runners. I was actually praising the Patriots for their use of the RB1 (while noting a wish for more involvement in the passing aspect of the game), partly by pointing out that both RBs had a similar type of success according to F.O..

 

[fumbrunner]

If you'd really read the post, you'd have seen that I wasn't comparing the runners. I was actually praising the Patriots for their use of the RB1 (while noting a wish for more involvement in the passing aspect of the game), partly by pointing out that both RBs had a similar type of success according to F.O..

which is a roundabout way of discrediting BJGE and the job he did here, while insinuating that his predecessor was comparable. How about you give BJGE some due for his work ethic and his success. He, in my opinion, epitomizes the prototypical patriot player. Maroney was the polar opposite.

 

[JackBauer]

I like BJGE as much as the next guy, but his advocates need to stop being so sensitive.

 

[Deus Irae]

which is a roundabout way of discrediting BJGE and the job he did here, while insinuating that his predecessor was comparable.

No, it wasn't. It was a straightforward way of giving credit to the coaching staff for the way they've used their past two RB1s.

One of the things we overlook as Patriots fans, IMO, is just how well this team uses the running game, in terms of overall efficiency without elite RBs.

I'm sorry that bothers you, but that's about as straightforward as it gets.

 

[patsinthesnow]

I like BJGE as much as the next guy, but his advocates need to stop being so sensitive.

Ha, I deleted my post, you edited yours, I agree though. There really is no point in the Maroney arguing anymore.

 

[fumbrunner]

No, it wasn't. It was a straightforward way of giving credit to the coaching staff for the way they've used their past two RB1s.

I see. Plug and play, eh? The success has nothing to do with the player and everything to do with the coaching. Good to know. You might want to consider a career change from the resident contrarian on this board and try out as RB1 for the New England Patriots.

Despite the outstanding season BJGE had last year, I have yet to see you once give him any credit for it. Given your never ending support for Maroney leading up to the trade last year, it's not surprising. Disappointing, but not surprising.

 

[JackBauer]

I see. Plug and play, eh? The success has nothing to do with the player and everything to do with the coaching. Good to know. You might want to consider a career change from the resident contrarian on this board and try out as RB1 for the New England Patriots.

Despite the outstanding season BJGE had last year, I have yet to see you once give him any credit for it. Given your never ending support for Maroney leading up to the trade last year, it's not surprising. Disappointing, but not surprising.

No offense, but you're reading things into Deus's post(s) that simply aren't there.

 

[Deus Irae]

I see. Plug and play, eh? The success has nothing to do with the player and everything to do with the coaching. Good to know. You might want to consider a career change from the resident contrarian on this board and try out as RB1 for the New England Patriots.

Despite the outstanding season BJGE had last year, I have yet to see you once give him any credit for it. Given your never ending support for Maroney leading up to the trade last year, it's not surprising. Disappointing, but not surprising.

Who the hell said anything about plug and play? For crying out loud, I'm giving credit to the coaching staff for their ability to take non-elite RBs and get elite production out of them. Neither Maroney nor BJGE have been elite RBs to this point in NFL history, and they have different running styles, yet they were both getting top 5 type stats on F.O.. I'm sorry that you can't handle that, but that's really not my problem.

 

[fumbrunner]

Looking back at your initial premise, that they were similar in FO stats, would you care to demonstrate where that is the case?

No offense to BJGE, but Maroney was getting those same high marks with some of the F.O. rankings, and people here were dismissive of those rankings then.

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | RUNNING BACKS 2010

2009 - 24th
2008 - non-existent
2007- 7th (and even then he had only 6 TDs)

 

[fumbrunner]

No offense, but you're reading things into Deus's post(s) that simply aren't there.

Sorry Jack, history would indicate otherwise on this topic.

 

[Deus Irae]

Looking back at your initial premise, that they were similar in FO stats, would you care to demonstrate where that is the case?



FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | RUNNING BACKS 2010

Sure...

2007, Maroney is 7 in DYAR, 6 in DVOA and 2 in success rate

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | RUNNING BACKS 2007

Two different starters. Two different styles. Two guys getting top end ratings from F.O..

Now, I'm off to a dinner date before the game. You have yourself a great weekend.

 

[fumbrunner]

Sure...

2007, Maroney is 7 in DYAR, 6 in DVOA and 2 in success rate

FOOTBALL OUTSIDERS: Innovative Statistics, Intelligent Analysis | RUNNING BACKS 2007

Two different starters. Two different styles. Two guys getting top end ratings from F.O..

Now, I'm off to a dinner date before the game. You have yourself a great weekend.

...and conveniently left off the rest of my quote, lol.

2009 - 24th
2008 - non-existent
2007- 7th (and even then he had only 6 TDs)

Have yourself a good evening Deus.

 

[ctpatsfan77]

No offense to BJGE, but Maroney was getting those same high marks with some of the F.O. rankings, and people here were dismissive of those rankings then.

Not exactly. Just looking at their best season to date:

Maroney (2007, 185 runs, 835 yards, 6 TD): 199 DYAR (7th), +16.7% DVOA (6th), +17.7% VOA, 58% success rate (2)
Green-Ellis (2010, 229 runs, 1008 yards, 13 TD): 354 DYAR (3rd), +26.4% DVOA (2nd), +21.3% VOA, 57% success rate (2)

Maroney only has a slight edge in success rate (how effective they are in helping to move the chains). BJGE has a huge advantage in DYAR and a big one in DVOA too. Moreover, note that the defense-adjustment for Maroney actually LOWERS his VOA to get his DVOA, while BJGE has one of the largest RISES they've ever had. In other words, not only did BJGE do better than Maroney in an absolute sense, he did it against better rushing defenses, too.

 

[JackBauer]

Maroney only has a slight edge in success rate (how effective they are in helping to move the chains). BJGE has a huge advantage in DYAR and a big one in DVOA too. Moreover, note that the defense-adjustment for Maroney actually LOWERS his VOA to get his DVOA, while BJGE has one of the largest RISES they've ever had. In other words, not only did BJGE do better than Maroney in an absolute sense, he did it against better rushing defenses, too.

Am I missing something? Was Deus comparing BJGE to Maroney, or simply noting that both had received high marks on FO's metrics?

 

[ctpatsfan77]

Am I missing something? Was Deus comparing BJGE to Maroney, or simply noting that both had received high marks on FO's metrics?

His exact words were "both RBs had a similar type of success according to F.O."

My point is that's only true if you're just looking at overall rankings in a vacuum.

 

[ausbacker]

Green-Ellis has been a far more effective runner for the Patriots than Maroney ever was. LoMo could have been something given his physical gifts. That all counts for naught given the mental application was always missing.