Eric Moore

[Patspsycho]

I am talking about pass rushers. Now, if you are advocating moving McCourty from DB to OLB we can discuss that idea. I don't think it will work but he might be better than what we have.

Then "everyone else" is probably not the correct term to use. "All the other pass rushers sucked" would be better.

 

[E Belichick Unum]

I don't know why people are not really up on this guy.

He played in only 4 GAMES last season and had 13 tackles and 2 sacks......if he had played in all 16 games and kept up that pace he would have ended up with 52 tackles and 8 sacks.

If 52 tackles and 8 sacks is not a great deal on a team that has problems with pass rush,then I don't know what to tell you.

Actually I am really up on Eric Moore, but he has never been the answer anywhere else. he is a solid journeyman player who should be put in a position to succeed under this system. Will he get the 8 or 10 sacks and 3-4 QB pressures a game that position needs to get has yet to be seen. In 33 career games he has 4 career sacks, two last year. On the positive side he played the best football of his career with the Pats last year.
From wikipedia Eric Moore (American football) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Moore played college football at Florida State where he played in 41 games, recording 82 tackles and 14 sacks, 30.5 stops for losses, 34 quarterback pressures, four fumble recoveries, four forced fumbles and eight pass deflections In 2001, Moore was a reserve defensive end in Florida State's final nine regular season games as a true freshman. He recorded 15 tackles (8 solo) with an 8-yard sack and two stops for losses. He shared playing time at left end in 2002, finishing with 25 tackles (20 solo), three sacks, eleven stops behind the line of scrimmage and nine pressures, despite missing three games after having his appendix removed mid-season. Moore took over right defensive end duties in 2003, earning Second-team All-Atlantic Coast Conference honors. He made 25 tackles (21 solo) with 7.5 sacks, 12 stops behind the line of scrimmage and 15 pressures in twelve games. He finished his senior season in 2004 with 17 tackles (8 solo), 2.5 sacks and eight pressures.

But he is a ball player.

 

[E Belichick Unum]

Then "everyone else" is probably not the correct term to use. "All the other pass rushers sucked" would be better.

I stand corrected professor.

 

[Sicilian]

Counting Eric Moore, three of our four OLB's have a good chance to improve over last season. Moore obviously will benefit from more time in the system (and knocking on wood, a relatively full camp). Ninkovich is only entering third full season with the Patriots and has improved over the first two IMO. Cunningham is coming off a promising rookie season and is expected to improve.

If those three improve even marginally, with an improved D-Line (return of Warren and Wright, addition of Stroud, improvement of at least one of Brace, Deaderick, Love), I think our OLB's are fine. Not the top of the league, but fine given everything else.

 

[Oswlek]

This defense is based off of pressure coming from the edge...

There's your problem right there. Apparently you've been watching Pittsburgh for the past few years and confused it with NE.

NE's strong pass rush in 03/04 was based on OL blocking assignment confusion over who was rushing, not dominant edge rushing.

 

[E Belichick Unum]

There's your problem right there. Apparently you've been watching Pittsburgh for the past few years and confused it with NE.

NE's strong pass rush in 03/04 was based on OL blocking assignment confusion over who was rushing, not dominant edge rushing.

Belichick's defense is based off of a stud nose tackle. That is where it starts, withoput one it doesn't work. The nose is responsible for forcing a double team, clogging up the middle, forcing the running back to go wide. That leaves the two ends to force the offensive line into the backfield and not allowing the running back to get around the edge. The middle libebackers are responsible for filling the holes that are created when the ends push the offensive line into the backfield. That is the reason why the ILB in the Belichick system is so active, and why Mayo got so many tackles last year. That leaves the two outside linebackers to aply pressure on the passer and applying back side pressure on the running back who has been forced wide. Sometimes they run stunts, but the Pats don't run a lot of them. Sometimes they blitz inside guys, or a DB, but the OLB is responsible for pass rush in passing situations and storming the backfield on running plays. If there is no pressure from the edge then you are relying on your ends for that pressure, and football is stacked against that happening. Tackles and guards are way too good in this league to get beaten consistently, especially by defensive ends in a 3/4 defense. You need that quick powerful guy coming off of the edge for the defense to really work well.

That is why Belichick has had such a hard time replacing McGinnist, finding that 6'6", 275 Lb OLB who can run a 4.5 is almost impossible drafting where the Pats usually draft and that is why I am so upset that the Pats didn't get their guy this year. They had the draft picks and the trading partners to go get one, and they took an offensive lineman who is a project instead.

The defense my be OK without a pass rushing OLB, but when it comes time that pressure has to be applied, the scrubinins we have at OLB will be blocked because in every walk of life the great ones rally and the ordinary get blocked.

 

[HomerSchooled]

I'm optimistic about his contribution, but I doubt he could be the answer to any of our problems. 2 sacks in 4 games sounds pretty good, but I don't think his addition to the team made for any marked defensive improvement overall. Combined with improvement of young players, and the recovery of some of our better veterans, he could be part of the puzzle, though.

Still, like many, I'd prefer to see a move to improve upon our OLBs.

 

[PATRIOTSFANINPA]

The bottom line is that when the playoffs come this team will not win a playoff game without good pressure up front....we have seen time and time again that failure to have a great OLB has doomed the team in the playoffs since 2004....Yes,even in 2007

McGinest and even Colvin in his early time here are missed.

Can Moore be the guy who makes a difference in January?...time will tell.

I do know that I will not rely on Cain,Nincovich to get the job done....right now hope is on a more mature Cunningham and Moore and pray that is enough.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Let's get a few things settled.

People need to stop calling the Pats pass rush "pathetic".

They were in the middle of the pack in sacks. They were at the top of the league in interceptions.

Can they improve their pass rush? Yes.

Eric Moore played very well in his short time with the team. Well enough to push for pretty good playing time. With a full TC, I expect him to be even more productive. Is he a long term answer? No. But he's looks like he could be a short term band-aid.

Da Bruinz,

Isn't it nice to get back to fundamental facts? The young Pats were indeed in the middle pack in the league in sacks, while playing a two raw starters at CB, and two raw initial starters at OLB. The young, talented, speed led the league in big play INTs, which is what you want.

Just letting Cunningham and Ninkovitch play as second year starters, the OLBs will be better. Simply getting Wilhite back, more importantly, Bodden back, playing McCourty as a sophomore, and letting first year UDFA CB Arrington, and third year CB Butler play, not to mention a second year for first year Chung, should improve the secondary.

BB is no fool. He sees what he has and what is developing in practice, that we fans haven't seen, yet.

 

[Deus Irae]

Da Bruinz,

Isn't it nice to get back to fundamental facts? The young Pats were indeed in the middle pack in the league in sacks, while playing a two raw starters at CB, and two raw initial starters at OLB. The young, talented, speed led the league in big play INTs, which is what you want.

Just letting Cunningham and Ninkovitch play as second year starters, the OLBs will be better. Simply getting Wilhite back, more importantly, Bodden back, playing McCourty as a sophomore, and letting first year UDFA CB Arrington, and third year CB Butler play, not to mention a second year for first year Chung, should improve the secondary.

BB is no fool. He sees what he has and what is developing in practice, that we fans haven't seen, yet.

This is reflected in the Patriots registering sacks on only 3.7 percent of dropbacks with four or fewer pass rushers (tied-27th in NFL).

Quarterbacks completed 63.9 percent of their passes against the Patriots' blitz, ranking New England 31st in that category. Opponents' 43.2 percentage converting first downs against the blitz also ranked the Patriots 31st.

Stats reflects need for more pass rush - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

 

[Oswlek]

Da Bruinz,

Isn't it nice to get back to fundamental facts? The young Pats were indeed in the middle pack in the league in sacks, while playing a two raw starters at CB, and two raw initial starters at OLB. The young, talented, speed led the league in big play INTs, which is what you want.

Just letting Cunningham and Ninkovitch play as second year starters, the OLBs will be better. Simply getting Wilhite back, more importantly, Bodden back, playing McCourty as a sophomore, and letting first year UDFA CB Arrington, and third year CB Butler play, not to mention a second year for first year Chung, should improve the secondary.

BB is no fool. He sees what he has and what is developing in practice, that we fans haven't seen, yet.

Development, deshmelopment. We need guys who are stars right out of the gate, like Vrabel and Bruschi.

 

[AzPatsFan]

Stats reflects need for more pass rush - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

I would expect a significant improvement if there is a normal amount of time in spring training...

 

[Deus Irae]

I would expect a significant improvement if there is a normal amount of time in spring training...

27/31/31

Pretty much can't go anywhere but up.

 

[DaBruinz]

According to football outsiders, they were last in the league in pass defeats.

What the hell is a Pass Defeat? I've heard of Passes Defensed. And that is when a defender knocks down a pass. Many of which should be done by the DBs.

 

[randomk1]

What the hell is a Pass Defeat? I've heard of Passes Defensed. And that is when a defender knocks down a pass. Many of which should be done by the DBs.

From FO:

Remember that Pass Defeats come in four different flavors:
turnovers
sacks
tackles behind the line on short passes
tackles or passes defensed that prevent a third-down conversion

GB is ranked 1st by them.

 

[DaBruinz]

No, it really is pathetic. Having a bunch of sacks, being in the middle of the pack, more sacks after Nov, blah, blah, blah. This defense is based off of pressure coming from the edge, without it the defense gets exposed. The interior line is made up of big, heavy guys. They may get some sacks, but the cannot chase the QB down and they cannot dictate the game.

Without a pass rusher applying outside pressure the DBs get exposed, the linebackers have to be used as pass defenders and get run on in passing situations and we live with people like TBC and Ninkovich. Bith of them are second stringers, at best.

The reason why people are so happy with Eric Moore is because everybody else sucks. It is the off season, when grasping at straws is what happens when the team doesn't draft a pass rusher.

Well, there is your first mistake. This defense is NOT based off of pressure coming from the edge. This defense is based on being able to bring pressure from any of the 4 LB positions. That's what made it so good in 2003 and 2004. They have been improving that, slowly but surely. The problem last year was that, after Ty Warren went down, only WILFORK was consistently able to draw double and triple teams. Unfortunately, this left o-line and TEs to pick up the rushing LB.

It's plainly clear to me that you do not understand how the front 7 are supposed to function. You seem to be thinking of them in terms of a 4-3 system and they aren't.

 

[DaBruinz]

From FO:

Remember that Pass Defeats come in four different flavors:
turnovers
sacks
tackles behind the line on short passes
tackles or passes defensed that prevent a third-down conversion

GB is ranked 1st by them.

So it's a made up stat that has no bearing on anything. I appreciate the info.

 

[DaBruinz]

Stats reflects need for more pass rush - New England Patriots Blog - ESPN Boston

Stats without context are meaningless. And no, those stats don't have context.

Not to mention that Sacks are not the be all end all to whether or not a pass rush is effective.

 

[E Belichick Unum]

Well, there is your first mistake. This defense is NOT based off of pressure coming from the edge. This defense is based on being able to bring pressure from any of the 4 LB positions. That's what made it so good in 2003 and 2004. They have been improving that, slowly but surely. The problem last year was that, after Ty Warren went down, only WILFORK was consistently able to draw double and triple teams. Unfortunately, this left o-line and TEs to pick up the rushing LB.

It's plainly clear to me that you do not understand how the front 7 are supposed to function. You seem to be thinking of them in terms of a 4-3 system and they aren't.

Let me repost this. The Patriots do not blitz their inside linebackers very often, they either fill the gaps or drop back in coverage. That leaves the OLBs to apply pressure.

Belichick's defense is based off of a stud nose tackle. That is where it starts, withoput one it doesn't work. The nose is responsible for forcing a double team, clogging up the middle, forcing the running back to go wide. That leaves the two ends to force the offensive line into the backfield and not allowing the running back to get around the edge. The middle libebackers are responsible for filling the holes that are created when the ends push the offensive line into the backfield. That is the reason why the ILB in the Belichick system is so active, and why Mayo got so many tackles last year. That leaves the two outside linebackers to aply pressure on the passer and applying back side pressure on the running back who has been forced wide. Sometimes they run stunts, but the Pats don't run a lot of them. Sometimes they blitz inside guys, or a DB, but the OLB is responsible for pass rush in passing situations and storming the backfield on running plays. If there is no pressure from the edge then you are relying on your ends for that pressure, and football is stacked against that happening. Tackles and guards are way too good in this league to get beaten consistently, especially by defensive ends in a 3/4 defense. You need that quick powerful guy coming off of the edge for the defense to really work well.

That is why Belichick has had such a hard time replacing McGinnist, finding that 6'6", 275 Lb OLB who can run a 4.5 is almost impossible drafting where the Pats usually draft and that is why I am so upset that the Pats didn't get their guy this year. They had the draft picks and the trading partners to go get one, and they took an offensive lineman who is a project instead.

 

[Sciz]

That is why Belichick has had such a hard time replacing McGinnist, finding that 6'6", 275 Lb OLB who can run a 4.5 is almost impossible drafting where the Pats usually draft and that is why I am so upset that the Pats didn't get their guy this year. They had the draft picks and the trading partners to go get one, and they took an offensive lineman who is a project instead.

The best candidate went at #7. That's 17+33 trade range. The other one supposedly had a medical red flag on the Pats' board but still went at #14. There weren't any other good OLB candidates.