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Eric Mangini: How the jets stalled the Pats' offense

Discussion in 'PatsFans.com - Patriots Fan Forum' started by SVN, Oct 22, 2012.

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  1. SVN

    SVN Hall of Fame Poster

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  2. reflexblue

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    #91 Jersey

    So nothing has changed in the last three or four years, and unless it does theres a standard blue print to stop the pats.
     
  3. Deus Irae

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    That's why some of us had been calling for a WR3 since 2009, and a middle-deep guy since 2010.
     
  4. Mack Herron

    Mack Herron In the Starting Line-Up

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    And this year at least it would seem to fall heavily on Josh, no? People keep saying that Lloyd is better than last year's Branch, but after Sunday I'm not so sure. Neither appears to be the solution.
     
  5. Bobs My Uncle

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    This has been the MO on how to stop the current version of the Pats passing attack for a few years now. Lloyd was added to curtail this style of defense and, yesterday, he failed miserably in his role.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2012
  6. Deus Irae

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    Well, it's early enough into an already injury-riddled season that I think pointing fingers in this area is premature.

    Is Edelman the answer at WR3? We don't know.
    Is this the best Lllllllloyd's going to be? If so, a lot of us were wrong.
    Is the Welker avoidance stuff on McDaniels/BB or players/opponents?
    Can this team integrate all the parts more smoothly?
    Will this team stop forcing the ball to Llllllllllllllloyd as if he's a legit WR1 when he needs to be this group's WR2?

    We need the answer to the above before we know whether or not the problem's solved, or whether the problem is player/coach/both, IMO. They still need to find the Mike Wallace/Randy Moss player for the offense moving forward, though, because Welker is seemingly going to be moving on and the team will be without a WR1.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2012
  7. KontradictioN

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    I'm interested to see the Wednesday responses from those that have All-22 access. I don't think the Jets really gave a damn about him threatening over the top. The safeties seemed to be focues on Welker and Gronk... and they got away with it.
     
  8. MoLewisrocks

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    And for a time it appeared heading into camp they had some depth and options until they decided they didn't need any as they were just going to force the issue with Lloyd. Didn't even have a fall back until they reeled Branch back in. Apparently because they assumed Edelman lurking in the weeds can replace most any position... And they seriously discounted the value of Welker's uncanny ability to rise above seeming challenges even when bracketed. With the TE's struggling with health issues and facing the usual adjustment period to DC's adjusting to their breakout prior season performances, they need a weapon on the field who at least consistently commands double or coverage focus. Then you have to have weapons who can consistently beat single coverage. Having decoys won't cut it. Unless you can make them pay teams will continue to persue an approach that is paying dividends. The pats struggle settling on an option that makes teams pay and they seem oddly committed to not sticking with it even while it is. That's the overthinking. Add in their exacerbated OL woes that continue to limit options because of their own struggles to operate efficiently let alone multi dimentionally and TE injury and you have an offense that has taken a step back in it's presuit of a step forward in an effort to reinvent the wheel in an off season.
     
  9. SVN

    SVN Hall of Fame Poster

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    Without welker this offense is screwed. LLoyd is not the answer for the deep threat , maybe make him run more routes intermediate but he cant seem to create seperate AND catch the ball and run at the same time. Maybe JMcD is assuming what he did with moss here he can do with lloyd thats why he is being force fed so much.
     
  10. Gronkowski123

    Gronkowski123 Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    #12 Jersey

    they are killing us on espn. lol

    imagine if we lost....
     
  11. borg

    borg In the Starting Line-Up

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    Don't tell Andy Johnson this....he insists Lloyd has expanded the field.
     
  12. dannydyn

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    Sorry, not buying that 'clogging the middle' nonsense.

    Last year, instead of Lloyd, we had a clown named Occho.... and god knows that retard couldn't catch a ball if it was laid in his hands with white gloves. Yet, we had a force attack straight down the middle with our duo TEs and Welker that got us to the Superbowl.
     
  13. Deus Irae

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    Good defenses can cover the non-Welker WRs one-on-one and clog the middle, and hold the Patriots in check by doing it. It's been that way since Moss was traded away. You buying it, or not, doesn't really matter. It is what it is.
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2012
  14. andrewgarrr

    andrewgarrr Banned

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    Hopefully, the Lloyd-Brady improves. Seems to have taken a step backwards last night... Obviously, a vertical threat helps EVERYONE on offense.

    The team's real problem is the secondary. Mark Sanchez looked halfway decent last night. That's unacceptable.
     
  15. KontradictioN

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    It's not nonsense. It appears to be exactly what defenses are doing.
     
  16. AndyJohnson

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    When did I even comment one way or another on that?
     
  17. KontradictioN

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    I think he's talking about Rob maybe? :confused:
     
  18. Metaphors

    Metaphors In the Starting Line-Up

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    Let's look at the turning point for each of the Pats drives that didn't result in a TD:

    #1 - Gained a quick 20+ yards but a 1 yard gain by Vereen was followed by 2 looks deep downfield. Punt

    #3 - Gained 30 yards but a holding penalty changed a 3rd-n-3 to a 2nd-n-20, which the Pats couldn't convert. Punt

    #4 - Gained 15 yards on 2 runs, but a no gain by Ridley was followed by a Brady sack. Punt

    #5 - Gained 53 yards (21 on the ground) but Woodhead couldn't convert a 3rd-n-2. Punt

    #7 - Gained 27 yards on the ground but a 1 yard gain by Vereen was followed by 2 ill-advised WR screens. Punt

    #8 - 11 yard gain by Lloyd wiped out by OPI. Couldn't convert from 1st-n-20. Punt

    #9 - Gained 54 yards in 90 seconds. FG

    #10 - Gained 54 yards in OT. Couldn't convert 3rd-n-6 on outside pass to Hernandez. FG

    So putting these in a group:

    #1, #4, #7 - Impatient with running game resulted in poor down/distance. The Jets showed no signs of consistently stopping the run and yet the Pats seemed to abandon the run at the first sign of resistance.

    #3, #8 - Penalties resulted in poor down/distance. Didn't see a replay of the Thomas holding call but watching the live feed I didn't see anything wrong. The Lloyd OPI was technically the right call but it is rarely called. Not sure why the Pats seem to be targeted with OPI calls more than other teams.

    #5, #10 - Poor play calls on 3rd down. Woodhead is not a good option on 3rd and short. The Pats thought they would catch the Jets out of position by not changing personnel but no need to get cute when you are moving the ball well. The outside throw to Hernandez was the same pass that got a PI call earlier in the drive. Refs aren't going to throw the flag twice on the same drive on the same play...and the DB got a preview of the route a few plays earlier.

    #9 - Great drive that almost ended the game in regulation

    Can someone tell me where the Jets frustrated the Pats offense? The Pats wounds were mostly self-inflicted. Looking at individual plays across multiple drives or focusing in on drives when the down/distance have already gone south doesn't make much sense.

    This was very much like the Seattle game last week and the Arizona/Denver games earlier. The Pats are not taking advantage of the opportunities in front of them. Hard to see that as a fatal flaw unless just don't improve their efficiency as the year progresses. Based on history, I'm not worried as long as the health situation stays reasonable.

    Quick aside...does any team get less focus on player injuries than that Pats? Both starting safeties are out and people seem to think that doesn't affect their ability to defend downfield. 40% of the starting OL is out and yet the efficiency of the offense is supposed to still be at an elite level. Both TEs in a TE-dominated offense are hurting but they still should blow out every opponent they face. Not making excuses...I think they should be able to play better than they are showing. But I do understand that a team built on efficiency and game-planning is affected more by injuries early in the year than most teams.
     
  19. reflexblue

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    I read all these Lloyd sucks posts, so typical of the fan base here. Seven games into the season the guy is a bum, hes not the answer etc. Every year its the same story, how about we give him more than those seven games for him and brady to click. He had a bad game yesterday, he dropped passes hes caught in the past. While i wasn't all that impressed with the teams play yesterday, I do realize that the Ryan brothers almost Always come up with a defense that stiffles the pats, the offensive line is a patchwork of starters in new positions and jags, its a new offense to most of the players and it takes time to get acclimated to it, both Gronk and AH are still hurt, the management can't seem to decided between Welker or Edelman, which is ridiculous....its Welker.
     
  20. IcyPatriot

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    So why not line up Gronk and Hernandez on the outside and quick hit pass the jets to death?
     
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