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Equal Pay for Equal Work

Discussion in 'Political Discussion' started by PatriotsReign, Jul 21, 2014.

  1. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    The corp world doesn't care what childbirth is like. It's a brutal, cut-throat culture. You can't be sensitive....it takes very thick skin.

    Frankly, how people perceive it is irrelevant. But there are some companies that provide a more compassionate culture....just not many.
     
  2. Bobsyouruncle

    Bobsyouruncle Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    You cannot claim that you "guess" women have an immeasurable advantage at certain jobs, but can't show it and then pay them more based on this undefined metric.

    If that's okay, then switch it around. Can I say "I guess men are better at a certain job, I can't tell you what they're better at, but because I believe men are better I'll pay them more?" If a woman works 5 days a week, and a man only shows up 4, can I say it's okay that men meet a different standard because I think men are better? I can't measure or show what they're better at, but I'll pay them the same amount based on this idea. Why is it my example is discrimination, but when you call for the same policy in favor of women it's not? You're asking for sexism to be implemented as a policy.

    We don't design tests based on how we want the people taking them to do, we design them to measure the ability of the person taking them to accomplish a certain task. If a woman's strengths are not the strengths required in the job we can't change the job and shouldn't change the test. We can't change reality.

    http://usmilitary.about.com/od/army/a/afpt.htm
    http://www.dfas.mil/militarymembers/payentitlements/militarypaytables.html

    Using these two links you can discern that women in the military make equal pay for lower standards. That is equal pay for unequal work. Additionally they are credited higher for promotion than men of equal standards. No different than If we paid men and women the same and let the man work less hours for otherwise equal performance.

    Yes, if I was a woman I would have a better chance of getting into college, better treatment at work, and more advantages.

    No, history shows that WITH government involvement power gravitates to a narrow demographic.

    Women are not a minority

    Employers don't pay while soldiers on military duty, nor should they have to. Same rule.

     
  3. PatriotsReign

    PatriotsReign Hall of Fame Poster

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    #18 Jersey

    What is this obsession with trying to make everything in life "Fair"?

    If I get cancer, is it fair? Of course it is....at least as fair as anyone else that's had it.

    There are a lot of things in life that aren't fair. It doesn't mean we need to fix all of those things. Life isn't supposed to be neat & predictable to fit some type-A's mentality. Life is confusing, unfair and wonderful all at the same time.

    Humanity's job isn't to figure out the meaning of life. Each of us have to do that on our own.
     
  4. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Pro Bowl Player

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    it is like genital mutilation
     
  5. SB39

    SB39 In the Starting Line-Up

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    Then I guess I just don't understand what your problem is. Women are far more likely to be stay-at-home types or reduced workload (at their request) types. The proportional lack of women having executive level positions isn't the result of sexist policies, it is a result of women voluntarily and willingly self-selecting themselves out of the process.
     
  6. SB39

    SB39 In the Starting Line-Up

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    It hurts.

    Any other stupid, irrelevant questions you would like answered?
     
  7. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    That works fine for the stay-at-home moms and those who entered the work force late - but it doesn't work at all for the hundreds of thousands of women who've worked full time their entire life.
     
  8. SB39

    SB39 In the Starting Line-Up

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    The point Patters and I are discussing is the proportional representation of women in executive level positions. No one is saying there aren't a lot of women who work full time their entire lives. All I am saying is that proportionally speaking, a woman is far far far more likely to drop out of the rat race than men, and that goes a long way towards explaining why executive level positions are disproportionally held by men.
     
  9. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Pro Bowl Player

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    except for my 1st wife who is a VP at a large corporation.......and my 2nd wife who is a HS English dept head at one of the top public schools in MA.......they have both outpaced men within their own departments.....

    the funny thing about both women and minorities in the work place is that both think they can get what they want on their own terms when white men can't do that

    there are lots of men out there comparing themselves to others and feeling cheated......

    but I get it......rather than putting everything on yourself, it is that much easier to lay it on others.....
     
  10. IcyPatriot

    IcyPatriot ------------- PatsFans.com Supporter

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    #87 Jersey

    Be a lot less babies if we would have to do it.
    They teach people in the birth classes that once the head is past the cervix that the majority of work is done ... not. My 3rd child had a head like a bowling ball and my wife could not get him through the birth canal. Then she had nothing left and had to pass a larger than normal placenta.

    Nope ... cannot even begin to think I know what it is like ... takes a woman though.
    Helping people when dying, people sick, child birth ... woman can go to places to help others than I believe many men cannot imagine - it is a toughness not all of us have ... a different kind of tough. I think with good reason it's why there are more woman in healthcare than men ... they find a way through it. I don't want to say it's a gift either because I feel that detracts from the toughness and courage it takes.
     
  11. IllegalContact

    IllegalContact Pro Bowl Player

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    well.....bearing children is an impediment ... I would dare to say that women without children probably experience a higher level of success which is competitive with men

    the kid thing gets in the way of professional development........pretty open and shut.....
     
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  12. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    That would be an interesting study to undertake, actually. How many of the successful women in the world (executives, CEOs, congresswomen, judges, senators, etc. have children as opposed to those in the same positions who do not.)

    Just for the heck of it, maybe I'll try to track down congresswomen or sentors if I can.....just for an idea. They'd be the easiest to check on, I think. Now I'm curious.
     
  13. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    True...and abortion wouldn't be an issue, I don't think.

    And don't forget that rare baby whose shoulders are larger in circumfence than their heads. They hd to break my first son's collarbone to finish the delivery.

    It's a thing. Like every other thing. And I think there have been more women in healthcare because it's just been, traditionally, considered "woman's work." (Except for being a physician, which woman are only now being trained in equal or higher numbers.) The men I worked with who were nurses were, for the most part, excellent at it.
     
  14. Mrs.PatsFanInVa

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    #24 Jersey

    Ok...I tallied the Senate.

    20 female senators

    15 married
    04 single
    01 divorced

    16 with children
    04 childless

    AK U.S. Sen. Lisa Murkowski (R) married 2 children
    CA U.S. Sen. Barbara Boxer (D) married 2 childre
    CA U.S. Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D) married x3 1 child
    HI U.S. Sen. Mazie Hirono (D) single no children
    LA U.S. Sen. Mary Landrieu (D) married 2 children
    MA U.S. Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D) married 2 children
    ME U.S. Sen. Susan Collins (R) married no children
    MD U.S. Sen. Barbara Mikulski (D) single no children
    MI U.S. Sen. Debbie Stabenow (D) divorced 2 children
    MN U.S. Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D) married 1 child
    MO U.S. Sen. Claire McCaskill (D) married 3 children (1st woman to give birth while a senator)
    NC U.S. Sen. Kay Hagan (D) married 3 children
    ND U.S. Sen. Heidi Heitkamp (D) married 2 children
    NE U.S. Sen. Deb Fischer (R) married 3 childen
    NH U.S. Sen. Kelly Ayotte (R) married 2 children
    NH U.S. Sen. Jeanne Shaheen (D) married 3 children
    NY U.S. Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D) married 2 children
    WA U.S. Sen. Patty Murray (D) married 2 children
    WI U.S. Sen. Tammy Baldwin (D) single no chilren
    WA U.S. Sen. Maria Cantwell (D) single no children
     
  15. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The percent of women who are stay is not that large. Many women aren't married or don't have kids, and less then 30% of women with kids are stay at home. It doesn't explain why so few women are in top executive and other positions; it doesn't explain why in low paying jobs women still earn less than men, it doesn't explain why women jobs that tend to employ women generally pay less than jobs that tend to employ men. It's certainly the result of sexist attitudes. Let's remember, it's only in the 1970s that women began to achieve equality. There are still many many men who predate that era and bring with them into the workplace old fashioned attitudes.
     
  16. Bobsyouruncle

    Bobsyouruncle Rotational Player and Threatening Starter's Job

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    I wonder if we can assume that like executives, the low number of female participants in this political forum is evidence that Patsfans, and even our mods are actually discriminating against women.

    None of the measurable differences between sexes can account for this discrepancy. Strength and childbearing don't limit women from participating. If we really believe that's the only diversity between the sexes than we must conclude this site is being run and managed by mysogynists.
     
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    Last edited: Jul 24, 2014
  17. Harry Boy

    Harry Boy Look Up, It's Amazing PatsFans.com Supporter

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    Sarah Palin is a very successful women along with being a powerful woman and raising a family, Sarah should be a role model for The Womens Movement.
     
  18. The Brandon Five

    The Brandon Five Experienced Starter w/First Big Contract

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    #75 Jersey

    The real estate business is also guilty of wholesale conspiracy against men:

    [​IMG]
     
  19. SB39

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    30% is actually pretty high. I am sure the number is much much higher if you look only at those who are 50+ years old, which is around the age of executive level employees. Plus you are conveniently ignoring another category I mentioned, that being the women who request lighter workloads or shorter hours for large stretches of their career or take long periods of leave.
     
  20. Patters

    Patters Moderator Staff Member PatsFans.com Supporter

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    The comparisons are usually done with full-time workers. About 57% of women and 70% of men work, and of those 73% of women work full time and 24% work part-time. For men, it's 87% and 13% respectively. To me, this doesn't explain the disparity in so many high paying fields and executive positions, where women are almost never CEOs or top executives. I wrote earlier about the women who request lighter workloads or work part time while raising children. As a comparison, would you support penalizing troops? I believe the law is that you can't penalize a soldier in any way for missing work due to military responsibilities. Now, most troops are male, and that's an example where a male centric society favors men over women. Women (and men) should get time off without penalty to raise their children.

    http://www.dol.gov/wb/stats/recentfacts.htm
     
    Last edited: Jul 24, 2014

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